FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[SaintsFAN]

formerd3db,

big win for Thomas More today with a freshman QB playing (starter is out with an ACL)...over Hanover in what looks to be the final game of the rivalry...

IMO, Lloyd Carr just buried himself today.  NO WAY does he survive this season in Ann Arbor.  A proud program will not stand for what happened today.  As well as App St played today, the Wolverines were simply not ready to play today. 

Hope you are doing well...about time the 2007 season got started

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

formerd3db:

I would say that Michigan was rather foolish to even schedule App St.  When you want to play a cupcake team, you generally play a cupcake, not the best cupcake in the country the last two years.  I have watched App st play several times on TV the last two seasons and what always struck me was the speed which they had.  That was something Michigan had no answer for today, which was highlighted on that long TD in the first quarter when Michigans players had no chance in catching the young man from App. St.  I think this game also speaks to the greed of DI football these days, expanding the schedule so that the power schools can beat up on weaker competition while making millions in revenue.  This is what can happen, theres no reason a school should play twelve games in a season and not have a playoff, its absurd.  I am glad to see the knock off and I think the best part at least in my eyes is that these games always come with quite the payout something in the 300-500K range.  So it must be nice for App St to walk in, beat U of M and ruin their season and also get handed a large check for doing so, thats not bad work if you can get it. 

On another note I dont see how U of M can stay in the Top 25 after this game.  It would be one thing if they played a lesser DI school and lost, I would chalk that up to a bad game.  However a top 5 team even on a bad day should be able to dispatch a DIAA opponent.  If any voter can honestly cast his vote this upcoming week and explain how U of M is a top 25 team after losing to a team that isnt even a top 119 by virtue of their classification id love to hear it.

[formerd3db]

formerd3db,

big win for Thomas More today with a freshman QB playing (starter is out with an ACL)...over Hanover in what looks to be the final game of the rivalry...

IMO, Lloyd Carr just buried himself today.  NO WAY does he survive this season in Ann Arbor.  A proud program will not stand for what happened today.  As well as App St played today, the Wolverines were simply not ready to play today. 

Hope you are doing well...about time the 2007 season got started

SaintsFAN:

Good to hear from you.  Congratulations on TMC's opening day win - it is always great to have the first game be a "W".  I saw your previous posts regarding the apparent end of the TMC/Hanover rivalry - that is unfortunate.  Perhaps they get another two year series in future years.  I compare it to Hope's on/off rivalry with Wabash and DePauw (and Wheaton).  It changes every few years.  

I would have to agree with you about U of Mich.  However, while I think Carr is in his last year (either via retirement or being let go), I am not quite convinced that the Mich "brass" would do it until towards the end of the season - if they are going to.  Anyway, it will be interesting to see what plays out.  I am a Wolverine fan as my dad is an alum and my nephew is a junior there.

I am doing satisfactory.  Hope you are doing well.  Indeed, like you, I am glad to see football season here.  Talk to you again soon.

[formerd3db]

DAWG:

I've watched App'l.St. on TV too and have the same opinion as yourself (indeed speed and not bad size either).  I agree with you also regarding the 12 game set up - ridiculous.  As I mentioned in regard to multifple discussions that have occurred regarding this topic in the last couple of years or more on all these boards, I am probably in the minority, however, regarding lower division classification teams playing upper division ones (at all NCAA levels) as I like to see the upset (just not against Mich and my other teams !).  Always like to see the "little guy" win!

Yes, it will be interesting to see just how far Mich drops in the polls.

[sac]

App State v Michigan

Allow me to add my couple bucks here since I have much to say and little outlet.

I actually contemplated skipping this game and heading to Holland.  Seems my resulting feelings would have been the same, except the sun burn might be on the other side of my face.   App State held no interest for me and truthfuly I watched the game for the most part with my elbows on my knees in shear boredom, wishing the sun wasn't so dang hot with no breeze.  And wishing what was going on in front of me would just go away.

If I hadn't seen the game with my own eyes I'd be more upset but quite frankly Michigan got manhandled today and really had no business having a chance to win.  App State dropped a sure TD pass, that resulted in a missed FG, dropped a 3rd down pass to an uncovered WR late in the 4th, the resulting punt led to Michigan's go ahead TD.  Threw 2 INTS right at a Michigan defender, and had a costly fumble on another drive that looked surely to end in points.  Then inexplicably ASU went for the game winning FG with 30 seconds on the clock on 1st down leaving Michigan time for a miracle which they nearly pulled off.   Had Michigan won it might have been remembered as the worst coaching gaff of all-time.

I don't know what the future holds for Carr, quite simply Michigan was badly unprepared for this game, or at least it seemed.   Thats two straight and unfortunately becoming a common theme in losses.   But the more disturbing thing was the lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball.  Its going to be a very long year in Ann Arbor.   I questioned UM's lofty pre-season rankings anyway, you simply can't lose 4 starters to the NFL and not expect a dropoff, and what a dropoff.  Its doubtfull UM has anyone at LB or the secondary who would start at Wisky, OSU or PSU.

Anyone who thought (including me) that UM had solved its defensive frailties of the past decade last season can now only question if maybe the last 3 games have exposed Michigan's first 11 wins of 2006 as poor quality.  App State had a better offense than any of those teams, and thats the truth.

There's a formula for beating UM now and App State fit it to a T.  Simply spread UM out and pick them apart.  Offensively Michigan makes enough mistakes and sputters enough that you can outscore them.

Certainly a very disappointing day, and the natives are definately wrestless, the walk back to the car was not pleasant.  Alot of things being said that really shouldn't be.  Many people are jumping on the tab as greatest upset ever etc, and frankly I don't see that.  UM is not a top 20 team on defense and I'm afraid they will lose a number of games untill or if they straighten out how to cover a spread offense.  Fortunately the Big 10 is not loaded with spread offenses, but enough for the losses to pile up.  At the end of the year if UM ends up 7-5 or 8-4 this will not be the biggest upset ever, and only will be if UM performs a miraculous transformation and finishes strong.  Maybe then.

With my own eyes I've seen far less talented teams beat Michigan, there's a perception barrier that people will have a hard time getting over and thats a shame to Appalachian State.  A very  fine well coached team that could give just about anybody fits.  Unfortunately the focus will be on UM losing and not ASU winning.

Carr's future is not my decision of course, as a fan I've loved the way his teams never quit, and always fight.    There have been some serious Michigan comebacks in his tenure and some big upsets (though none recently)  Despite the last few years its rare Michigan is truely outmanned on either side of the ball, or out of any contest.  But my true feelings have been that the program has dodged the losing season bullet many times, somehow they've dug themselve out of holes at times you didn't think they could.....and unfortunately they've needed many combacks to escape major losses.  They've avoided the mental collapse that every other major college program has suffored since the scholarship reduction days started.  However its getting harder and harder to support Carr and his in game philosphy.  Today was what happens when 1985 philosophy meets 2007 philosophy and thats the sad thing.  The big change in Michigan's offense this season is that they installed some shotgun offensive sets.  Read that again and remember that this is 2007.

Today was certainly disappointing but it wasn't the end of the world for Michigan football.  I mean really it would have a sham if App State had lost to be honest.  It will be interesting to see how Michgan reacts but if there ever was a scenario where the mental collapse finally happens, boy this is it.  Bottom line is if Michigan continues to play D like they did today, every single team on M's schedule can beat them and thats not a joke.  I also know that won't happen.



Well anyway thanks for indulging me.  Sorry to see Hope and Albion weren't more competitive.


As I write this a Red Sox pitched a no-hitter so at least UM isn't the top story anymore........at least in the Northeast.

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

Sac:

Great insights from someone who was also there.  I would agree that it would have been terrible had App state lost the game as I agree Michigan really shouldnt have had that chance to win.  I especially liked and enjoyed a good laugh at the sentence "And wishing what was going on in front of me would just go away."  Im sure that was a feeling shared by many across this great state.

As you pointed out Michigan fell victim to the same formula that bites them every time which is spreading them out and having a mobile quarterback, as good a coordinator as English is it blows my mind why he and the coordinators before him have been unable to stop that.  That is a problem however that goes all the way back to U of M vs. Syracuse when Donovan Mcnabb ran all over U of M and embarassed them, but that was many moons ago.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Since I don't have UM tickets, and Comcast won't show BTN games, I did NOT see the game (though I listened to it).  But I have seen the box score.  Michigan had more first downs, and had more yardage by far (leading in both running and passing) - where's the 'domination'?  If Mike Hart had had two healthy legs (188 yards and 3TDs is not too shabby for limping through less than half the game!) and played in place of Brandon (Butterfingers) Minor, UM would have won easily, and this story would not be dominating the airwaves.  And that horrible defense DID give up but 6 points in the second half.

Give Appalachian State some credit.  ADAWG, I respect your posts (usually!), but saying they were not even in the top 119 (by classification) is downright silly, and you know it.  Grand Valley would kick butt against a majority of d1aa teams, and many more than a handful of d1a teams.  Mount Union would take out a majority of d2 teams, many d1aa teams, and (I suspect) at least a handful of d1a teams.  While I doubt ASU has the depth to compete at a high d1a level week-in-and-week-out (or MAYBE they do!), their starters are clearly top 50, perhaps even bottom of top 25 quality.  This WAS an upset, and UM should have won even with a one-legged Hart, but it was 'the greatest upset of all time' only to those who have no respect for 'lower' divisions and don't realize how much overlap there is between uppers in one (and ASU is THE upper in d1aa) and the lowers of another.

I will STILL be disappointed (and very surprised) if Michigan doesn't win at least 10 games.

[sac]

"And wishing what was going on in front of me would just go away."  Im sure that was a feeling shared by many across this great state.

Fortunately Delaney's ego prevented many from seeing it.

As you pointed out Michigan fell victim to the same formula that bites them every time which is spreading them out and having a mobile quarterback, as good a coordinator as English is it blows my mind why he and the coordinators before him have been unable to stop that.  That is a problem however that goes all the way back to U of M vs. Syracuse when Donovan Mcnabb ran all over U of M and embarassed them, but that was many moons ago.

Goes back even further....Ricky Foggy ring a bell.   Basically to beat a spread you have to either contain it or outscore it.  Michigan refuses to run an offensive philosophy that can outscore anyone.  So when they can't contain it, they lose.

  Michigan had more first downs, and had more yardage by far (leading in both running and passing) - where's the 'domination'? 

The stats lie Chuck, App State dominated the first half and once they got the lead made the inexplicable decision to quit throwing the football.  App State sticks with its offense this one wouldn't have been close.

I apologize for poluting the board with this garbage.

[formerd3db]

sac and Mr. Ypsi:

Thanks for your insights regarding Mich.  Although I obviously didn't see the game and will have to read the accounts in this AM's newspapers, you didn't mention how Michigan's secondary played.  In addition to some of the problematic areas you noted they have had the past couple of years or more, IMO, the secondary has been one of those.  They can't cover a tight end (or the short pass) and that has cost them games many times, particularly in the bowl games and championship games.

Also, sac, I agree with your statement about "wishing what was going on in front me would just go away"   As DAWG mentioned, there plenty of others who shared your sentiment - including me and all the others in the home stands at HMS today.  It was almost like a nightmare and like your experience, the game seemed to just drag on the more we thought about it.  On days like that, when nothing is going right, even though you don't (or at least are not supposed to) give up and give the effort until the end, an additional and perhaps appropriate feeling is hoping that the game will "just get over with"   As much as I hate to admit that, many of us felt that way today

[Mr. Ypsi]

former,

The ASU coach was quoted postgame as saying they had seen on film that UM didn't cover the middle of the field, and that they successfully exploited that.

[SaintsFAN]

its been said on here that Michigan should not have scheduled this game....I want to bring a point of view about scheduling...

Most D1 teams schedule their games YEARS in advance.  It would be interesting to see when this contract was made for the game...  Its a crapshoot to see what teams will be like when you put them on the schedule..

[frank uible]

Rumor has it that U/M is seeking to put The Little Sisters of the Poor on its schedule next year as an opener, but LSP as the favorite wants more money than U/M is prepared to provide.

[formerd3db]

its been said on here that Michigan should not have scheduled this game....I want to bring a point of view about scheduling...

Most D1 teams schedule their games YEARS in advance.  It would be interesting to see when this contract was made for the game...  Its a crapshoot to see what teams will be like when you put them on the schedule..

SaintsFAN:

Schedules usually are made several years in advance at most schools.  However, I thought I saw in the newspapers last week that the Appalachian State game was added last year in regards to scheduling the 12th game now allowed.  Although I am a Michigan fan, perhaps someone who follows them a little closer than I have of recent such as sac and Mr. Ypsi and/or others can commet in more detail about this.   

[bulldogalum]

I remember when they scheduled the game, Bill Martin was quoted saying something to the effect of "we're not thrilled playing a DIaa, but if we're going to play one, we may as well play a two time defending national champion."

I didn't see a play of the game, and couldn't listen to it on the radio, but got relatively regular updates via the internet.  I was afraid of the game beforehand, and even when they took the lead late knew they would lose.  It's over now, we'll find out what this team is about in the next three weeks.

On the plus side, Adrian won.

[WLCALUM83]

wlcalum and myself giving Warrior Coach Miller the Gatorade soak after yesterday's win--

"One, two, three, --heave-- splash!"  

(WLC's men's basketball team upset ranked Aurora at home last season--maybe some of that carried over--Ah-ha-that's it.)

Heard Bodnar had a great day throwing. Well, one of my 2007 new year's wishes on this board has been met. If Tri-State wins 2 more games that'll make 2 out of 3.

Wouldn't you know on a day I'm away from a computer--.