University Athletic Association

[formerd3db]

sigma one (and colleagues):

Well said; I agree entirely.  Thanks for your additional comments/opinion.

[DagarmanSpartan]

Gang,

Personally, I don't understand the position of either the Ivy League, or the NESCAC regarding the football post-season.

To illustrate, take a look at the University Athletic Association.

It's literally the ONLY intercollegiate athletic conference in the ENTIRE COUNTRY..............at ANY level of play.........which can boast of having ALL of its schools as members of the Association of American Universities.  Even the Ivy League can't boast of that (Dartmouth is not an AAU member)!

Moreover, every school in the UAA is ranked among the US News Top 37 "national universities" in the country.  To the best of my knowledge, the Ivy League is the only other league in the country that can boast of this (I'm not sure that the NESCAC can boast of having all of its members among the Top 37 "liberal arts colleges," by comparison).

Now, get this: ALL of the UAA's football playing schools make themselves eligible to participate in the post-season, and all of its football playing members either have competed in or aspire to compete in the Division III football playoffs.

Given that, any notion that competing in the football post-season either conflicts with exams or hurts academic prestige absolutely FLIES in the face of the evidence.

Even at the Division I-FBS level, I can tell ya this much: competing in the football post season sure as Hell hasn't negatively affected the academic reputations of Stanford, Northwestern, Rice, Duke, or Notre Dame!  They've proven that academic and athletic prestige are MUTUAL and COMPLIMENTARY.

[formerd3db]

DagermanSpartan:

Also, well said.

[D3MAFAN]

D3db and others:  the whole NESCAC "we don't participate in the football championship playoffs because. . ." has puzzled me for years, even through that group's attempts at explanation. 
     

Even a ninth game in the beginning of the season would be fine...at least there would be something to use to compare to other Division III institutions. They could treat it as a pre-season game. It is upsetting to see that they limit the student-athletes to eight games while other teams around the nation struggle to find a tenth game and even a ninth game.

[sigma one]

Good thoughts everybody.  Keeps us going during the off season. 

[ADL70]

mustang

Great to hear from you.
I'm planning to keep tabs on your Ivy League son.  Do you know if Ivy League games will be televised as they were last year?  As I recall or conversation, your older son hadn't decided between baseball and football until his senior year.

D3MAFAN  They don't even play all of the teams in their conference during the regular season.  They start with a scrimmage against the team they don't play in the regular season.

[mustang]

mustang

Great to hear from you.
I'm planning to keep tabs on your Ivy League son.  Do you know if Ivy League games will be televised as they were last year?  As I recall or conversation, your older son hadn't decided between baseball and football until his senior year.

D3MAFAN  They don't even play all of the teams in their conference during the regular season.  They start with a scrimmage against the team they don't play in the regular season.

ADL

The Ivy league signed I believe a 3 year tv deal so they will again be on the NBC sports network. Due to how they finished I would expect my son's team to be on a minimum of 3 games. Your recollection of our conversation is correct, my older guy soured on baseball as his senior season progressed and by that time his football choices were Rose Hulman and Case. He's very glad (as am I) that he chose Case.

For Case next year I suspect Olson will return and the offense will have to carry the team, at least at first. The defense loses pretty much everybody and have a new linebackers coach so there will be some growing pains, coupled with a new, challenging schedule. I do have a lot of faith in coach Macalla and expect the defense to be effective.

[DagarmanSpartan]

mustang,

Which Ivy League school does your son play for?

[ADL70]

For some reason CWRU didn't post a spring roster this year and hasn't yet posted  a returning players roster.

Olson, Zach Scott, and Fioramonti potentially have another year of eligibility and Streicher (DE), Riordan, Magister, and a number of freshman LBs missed all or most of last year to injury.

Does anyone know which of them participated in spring practice or are likely to return and be ready in the fall?

[ExTartanPlayer]

I know that we're essentially in agreement, just wanted to write some stuff down to flesh it all out.  You're certainly right that more than half a dozen quality recruits per class are required to climb into that "second tier" of Division III, hovering on the fringes of the Top 25.  You might crack it for a year or two with two strong recruiting classes back-to-back, but staying there requires strong recruiting classes year-in and year-out (or at least three of every four years).

Isn't the real difficulty in college that the coaches have to recruit HS players for their 2013 squad when they don't really know how their 2012 recruits will ultimately perform?

Or even know which players from 2012 will return in 2013.  But unlike the scholarship divisions, D3 coaches don't have to deal with scholarship limits.  Can you ever have enough quality players?

Great discussion on the previous page, sorry that I wasn't in touch for it, I'd have jumped in!

I did want to make one point here; I've mentioned a few times that I had a work-study job calling recruits when I was playing for CMU, and we really didn't target specific positions that much, so I would answer ADL's question "Can you ever have enough quality players?" with a resounding "NO!"

We tried to get everyone that we could, positional depth or not.  Maybe we recruited a certain position especially hard if we were really thin there, but the major philosophy was just to cast as wide of a net as possible - it's always easier to bring in more guys than you need, knowing that you can have some switch positions and will likely lose some of them to injury and/or academic attrition along the way.  One year we brought in nine (NINE!) freshman quarterbacks, and we actually had at least two, maybe three upperclass QB's coming to camp as well.  Bring in all the guys, see who looks like they can play, convert the faster guys to WR or RB if we need one, and eventually you'll have the right # at each position.

[D3MAFAN]

D3MAFAN  They don't even play all of the teams in their conference during the regular season.  They start with a scrimmage against the team they don't play in the regular season.

Wow didn't even realize that scrimmage was not an official game, that explains how there are some scenarios that some teams may end of tied for conference champions. Nevertheless, I don't know how making the scrimmage official or even playing and OOC opponent early in the year effects student-athletes finals in December. I know that playing a sport in December with finals around the corner is all about time managment and it is up to the student if they really want to study or not.

[Pat Coleman]

I've seen some pretty good safeties made out of high school quarterbacks as well.

[mustang]

For some reason CWRU didn't post a spring roster this year and hasn't yet posted  a returning players roster.

Olson, Zach Scott, and Fioramonti potentially have another year of eligibility and Streicher (DE), Riordan, Magister, and a number of freshman LBs missed all or most of last year to injury.

Does anyone know which of them participated in spring practice or are likely to return and be ready in the fall?

mustang

Great to hear from you.
I'm planning to keep tabs on your Ivy League son.  Do you know if Ivy League games will be televised as they were last year?  As I recall or conversation, your older son hadn't decided between baseball and football until his senior year.

D3MAFAN  They don't even play all of the teams in their conference during the regular season.  They start with a scrimmage against the team they don't play in the regular season.

ADL

The Ivy league signed I believe a 3 year tv deal so they will again be on the NBC sports network. Due to how they finished I would expect my son's team to be on a minimum of 3 games. Your recollection of our conversation is correct, my older guy soured on baseball as his senior season progressed and by that time his football choices were Rose Hulman and Case. He's very glad (as am I) that he chose Case.

For Case next year I suspect Olson will return and the offense will have to carry the team, at least at first. The defense loses pretty much everybody and have a new linebackers coach so there will be some growing pains, coupled with a new, challenging schedule. I do have a lot of faith in coach Macalla and expect the defense to be effective.

Dagarman,

He plays for Penn.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Not trying to start something here, but some unfortunate UAA-related news....

http://college-football.si.com/2013/06/06/mississippi-state-football-ncaa-infractions/?sct=hp_t2_a9&eref=sihp

Is that the Angelo Mirando that played QB for CWRU in the mid-2000's?

[ADL70]

Not trying to start something here, but some unfortunate UAA-related news....

http://college-football.si.com/2013/06/06/mississippi-state-football-ncaa-infractions/?sct=hp_t2_a9&eref=sihp

Is that the Angelo Mirando that played QB for CWRU in the mid-2000's?

Yes, he allegedly failed to report a payment to a recruit by a booster.

http://theadvocate.com/csp/mediapool/sites/Advocate/assets/templates/FullStoryPrint.csp?cid=3882739&preview=y

He is currently QB coach at Ave Maria, an NAIA team in Florida.

On a positive note, former Spartans Mark Elder and Greg Meyer are on the staff at Tennessee.