FB: Centennial Conference

[Terrorizer24]

This year the terror defense didnt dominate like in previous years, i agree with that, i am simply stating that abbomonte was skrewed out of POY, and out of all-american honors, his numbers unlike the rest of the terror d WERE dominant

[xterjstrap]

the players'stats against teams outside the conference (i.e. Bridgewater), weren't shabby either. PC, just drop the whole idea---with your infinite firsthand PLAYING experience and knowledge, we can't hope to explain that football instincts (i.e. getting to the ball ...meaning TACKLES) are God-given and mean the same at ALL levels. A player who makes the plays by instincts is gonna make the play at any level, regardless of size, speed etc. Just because those instinctive moves to the ball were made against the inferior level of play as you say the CC is, doesn't mean it wouldn't be so against BETTER teams...playmakers remain playmakers where ever they go! Since the CC is so low in your mind, you should just not cover them at all...it would be better than listening to your OBVIOUS BIAS (which you accuse anyone of who knows a player and posts ). Its great to know that you are independently wealthy and do your GURU (give me a freakin' break...get a life, I love sports and football too, but theres other things in life, try women some time,... maybe that'll keep you off netspace for a few minutes) stuff just for fun and don't need the money like Hansen! [15,976 posts;whew you better save those hands for other interests!]
What is your MAGIC formula that makes up for, according to you, the uneven playing fields? Rating defenses has ALWAYS been done by stats; and player performance has, too. You just don't get it. In the NFL, a player does not get Pro Bowl or All-Poo just because he was on the Championship team. And a player isn't PENALIZED because he plays in the WEAKER NFC!
Make it easy on yourself, call Bartolain and Wilchinski at McDaniel...they coached Abbamonte and may just have a surprise for you! Don't rely on me 'cause...whew... I'm BIASED!!! I believe they just might say that Abbo was the best D3 DB to come along in quite awhile! Nobody (other than RINGGOLD), so completely dominated the games they played in than them. It's a shame you're so busy cozying-up to the Big Boys that you never got to see them play! Your loss!!! I know there are many, many other outstanding players, just none that grabbed your immediate attention and held it thru-out a game (and season) like those two. I think maybe the CC might have been under pressure from always giving DPOY to a TERROR!

[xterjstrap]

Oh, yeah. If you want to see how a player dominates games, go to McDaniel's website and listen to their game broadcasts. You''ll get so sick of hearing Abbamonte's name, it just may change your mind. If you'd like to see a game on film, I'm sure Fordyce would comply. I'd send you our videos, but you'd accuse me of doctoring them as BIASED as they'd seem toward Abbamonte's play!

[Pat Coleman]

the players'stats against teams outside the conference (i.e. Bridgewater), weren't shabby either. PC, just drop the whole idea---with your infinite firsthand PLAYING experience and knowledge, we can't hope to explain that football instincts (i.e. getting to the ball ...meaning TACKLES) are God-given and mean the same at ALL levels.

And with your infinite bias, we can't make you understand that there's a reason the Centennial performs so poorly in the NCAA playoffs -- the teams and players are not that good on a national level.

So perhaps you should drop it. If you need to pull the 'you never played the game' card to win this argument, that's a sign you have nothing to stand on.

Guess we should limit the fans of Division III solely to people who played? Stands would be pretty darn empty. But I guess only former players get to have an opinion.

Boards would be pretty quiet too. Quieter than this one already is.

[Pat Coleman]

Rating defenses has ALWAYS been done by stats; and player performance has, too. You just don't get it. In the NFL, a player does not get Pro Bowl or All-Poo just because he was on the Championship team. And a player isn't PENALIZED because he plays in the WEAKER NFC!

No it hasn't. Just in your mind.

That's funny -- no, a player does not get penalized for the Pro Bowl for playing in the NFC. That's the equivalent of the NFC's All-Conference team!

Spare me your ramblings. You make no sense whatsoever. You want to compare a deep 32-team league of professionals to a division of 234 teams? No chance that makes any sense.

[Pat Coleman]

Its great to know that you are independently wealthy and do your GURU (give me a freakin' break...get a life, I love sports and football too, but theres other things in life, try women some time,... maybe that'll keep you off netspace for a few minutes) stuff just for fun and don't need the money like Hansen! [15,976 posts;whew you better save those hands for other interests!]

Alright, well, if you're going to get personally insulting (your posts are so painful to read that I'm just finding this nugget) then I'm not going to participate in this conversation anymore.

Yeah, over nine years and D3football.com, D3hoops.com and D3baseball.com I have made a few posts. And I am hardly independently wealthy -- I just am not looking to make a buck off the All-Americans and their families. See, here at D3sports.com we have visitors. We have traffic. And millions of people come here every year. That's because we're the authoritative source on Division III. We have the experience and the lack of bias to present a balanced look at Division III.

Obviously that is not going to please every biased fan. But we are not here to pander. We're here to tell you what's what in Division III.

As a reminder, your family already had this conversation with us in December. Your points are not any more valid now than they were then. Prolonging it does not injure our reputation one bit -- but it makes the Abbamonte family look like a bunch of whiners.

Please spare us the rest.

[mandfense]

Geez.  I never thought I'd see the day where the Centennial board was so alive in February.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

xterjstrap (Mr. Abbamonte),

Let your nephew's performance on the field speak for itself.  Don't let honors and awards dictate his standing as a great player.  I saw him play four times (against Bridgewater), and I was very impressed.  I worked at McDaniel a year, and the time I met him he was a nice young man.

Just let it go.  If anything, you're making people who were impressed by Drew (like myself) doubt it if a family member has to come on a message board and argue the case for his ability.

The thing that jumps out at me - that isn't so obvious - about your argument with Mr. Coleman is that you're admitting D3football.com's All-America teams are the most accepted.  Why else would you waste so much energy on his website's message board saying he should have picked Drew?  If you really think Don Hansen has the most respected AA teams, then be happy with Drew's selection.  Otherwise, the more the argue the point, the more it looks like you're saying...

Mr. Coleman,

I'm really proud of my nephew's performance this year. Even though he was named All-America by other sources, I feel like he didn't quite deserve it seeing D3football.com didn't recognize him with the same honor.

Thank you for being the editor and publisher of D3football.com - which has given me the ability to be on this message board and speak my mind in the first place.

[BearFan01]

Ok hopefully i won't get shot for saying this. 

Mcdaniel is notorious for juicing up their tackle stats....... NOTORIOUS.  Ron Ringgold was mentioned..... fine player, but his stats were so hyped it was silly.  He would touch a pile and get a solo.  There were plays he was not even near the tackle and earned assists. They had an agenda to get him POY his senior year (look at the cover of the media guide) and tried their damnest to get him there.  Sorry he simply was not the best defensive player that year.   

Drew was a good player on a bad team.  Dube was well deserving of the award.  I think Butler on Ursinus was more deserving as well, I would place Drew third.  Hell I think Hrynczyszyn was probably the best linebacker in the conference, so maybe he is 4th.  The point is the guy did a great job for Mcdaniel, but he didn't lead his team to anything, so hard to make a case for POY. 

No offense to the Green terror lovers here, but why are we discussing them so much?  It seems obvious the future of this conference is Hopkins, Ursinus, and Dickinson.  The days of Mcdaniel domminance are over.  Boo harris is not lining up for the terror next year.  Their defence is no longer domminant.  You want a top notch defense, look at Ursinus or Dickinson, both ranked nationally very highly. Unless the school goes back to allowing whomever they want in they will not have an easy fix the the talent void they have there now.   

How about some talk about these three top teams, one of which hopefully WILL BE RANKED NATIONALLY somepoint next year.  I can also agree to some of Coleman's points, but as I posted earlier, I think the poll and awards can be a little anti centennial...which is fine.  We need to win come playoff time.  Of course this is natural, they seemed down on Wesley, who dickinson was up on and should have beaten.  So if they are down on Wesley, well then they are down on the conference that loses to them.  Someone beats Rowan, maybe well get a little more respect.   

Anyways how about some talk of these three teams..... or how about F-M who seems like they could be going somewhere.... or what about gettysburg...... can they get a defense or win on the road next year?  The Mules going to be able to score points next year and replace the ever talent they loose each year to graduation.  Each year they graduate a top defender or two and never seem to be able to replace them.  What is up with that? 

Let's have some relevant talk like recruiting, not the green terror glory days forum in here. 

[Terrorizer24]

BearFan01

You are out of your mind!!!! If anything, McDaniel's stats are below actual numbers.  There were games in Ringgold's senior year where he was credited for 15 or so tackles, but game film would show well over 20.  Player of the Year, he deserved not just because he had twice as many tackles as the eventual winner of the award, but his impact to game was much higher and head to head, McDaniel defeated Muhlenburg 13-6 in a defensive battle during that season and both Ringgold and McCall had 6 tackles in that game (6 tackles doesn't sound like a "juiced" up number.  McDaniel had a better defense than Muhlenberg, and that is because of Ringgold.  McDaniel's star was better than Muhlenbergs star on the defensive side.  The fact that Muhlenberg gave up 13 points to McDaniel shows a lot about their defense.  McDaniels offense was terrible and it's defense was the only reason they won that game and for that matter any game all year. 

As for McDaniel's media guide.  They put Ringgold on the Cover with previous defensive players who happend to win POY awards for the Homecoming Game.  However, Ringgold and Abbomonte both continue the long line of Terror defenders who have dominated the conference and deserved POY honors.

The program at Ursinus had a decent year last year, thats it.  The year before terrible, and the year before that terrible.   You can continue to HOPE to be ranked, but you won't be because your program is simply not good.

I agree McDaniel is down, and has been for a few years, but McDaniel's defense is always good, and always has a POY candidate and in the past 2 years that candidate has had better numbers, better years, and simply been a better football player than the player who won the award.  Simply put Ringgold and Abbomonte were screwed out of the award.

[Terrorizer24]

Ringgold vs. McCall statistically:

Solo Tackles
R-72
M-27

Advantage - Ringgold by a lot

Total Tackles
R- 136
M- 53

Advantage - Ringgold by a lot (note- McCall was 4th on his team in tackles)

TFL
R-12.5
M-14.5

Advantage - McCall by a little

Sacks
R-4.0
M-7.5

Advantage - McCall by a little


INT's
R-3 (1 for a TD)
M-2 (0 TD's)

Advantage - Ringgold by a little

Forced Fumbles
R-1
M-2

Advantage - McCall by a little

Team Record
McDaniel- 5-5
Muhlenberg 3-7

Obviously, Ringgold was more deserving, now everyone can admit he was screwed out of the award.  McCall had a GOOD year.  Ringgold had a POY type year.  It's a fact!

[Terrorizer24]

Abbamonte vs. Dube and vs. Butler becuase Bearfan threw his name in the mix:

Solo Tackles
A-67 (10 games)
D-54 (11 games)
B-39 (11 games ) note: 2nd on his team

Advantage- Abbamonte in less games

Total Tackles
A-125 (10 games)
D- 120 (11 games)
B- 68 (11 games) -why is he in this conversation again?

Advantage- Abbamonte in less games

TFL
A-11.5 (he's a DB)
D-17.5 (LB)
B- 10.0 (DB)

Advantage - Dube

Sacks
A-0.5 (again he's a DB)
D-5.5
B-2.5

Advantage - Dube

INT's
A-4
D-0
B-5 (1 for a TD)

Advantage - Butler

Pass Break Ups
A-3
D-0
B-5

Advantage Butler

Team Record
Mc- 4-6
D- 8-3
U-8-3

Numbers alone support Abbamonte in being the best defensive player.  No he wasn't on the best team, but he was the BEST player and that is what the award is.  Dube had a great year on a good team, Butler could be a POY candidate NEXT season if he has more tackles.  Abbamonte was the most feared and best defensive player in the conference and numbers support it.  It's a fact, better numbers in less games.  Abbamonte was screwed out of POY just as Ringgold was.  It is a FACT!

[BearFan01]

Again, it is a known fact that Mcdaniel juices their tackle stats.  Drew did not get the special treatment as much as Ringgold, but this is just a league wide known fact. 

Drew was a lot better than ringgold, but you keep saying how all the coaches know he is the best......  Well the coaches sit in a meeting in lancaster and vote on this...... they did not vote him in.  Obviously they don't feel he was the best.  They also are not allowed to vote for their own players.... so not like they are stuffing the box for dube.  dube had a breakout season on a breakout team where they do not juice your tackle stats. 

You ask why butler is in the conversation but make all excuses for drew.  How about ursinus's defense is so good, you don't need your safety to make all your tackles.  They go 3 and out nearly every series, limiting tackle chances.  They run a 4-2-5, with butler back on the hash a bunch........  when your back on the hash and 3 of your 4 d-lineman are all conference, both your linebackers are all conference, ..... well you don't need to save a lot of touchdowns like drew did. 

I am not looking to bash drew at all, he is a good player.  A POY needs to make everyone around him better and lead his team to something.  Mcdaniel was poor this year, and the team stats on defense are BAD.  The guy had a lot of tackles, he is a good tackler.  He did not have as many tackles as he is credited for..... that is not his fault, or to say he isn't good, he simply plays at mcdaniel.  A POY doesn't have to be the best player on the best team, and he doesn't have to have the best stats in human history...... a POY has to make a difference.  Dube has made a huge difference on dickinson, last year he missed time with a broken leg.  They go about 500.  He is back all season, has great numbers, and leads the team to the playoffs.  Butler arrives in collegeville and the bears are suddenly good again. 

Sorry for Drew, but maybe there are just too many holes in the dam at mcdaniel, but he did not make a difference other than preventing loses from being worse then they were.   

[Terrorizer24]

You are correct, a POY has to make a difference.  A POY is simply the best player, no matter the team, the player that stands out brighter than anyone else, and if you saw any CC games this year or last, the brightest stars on defense were Ringgold and Abbamonte in their respective years.  Butler wasn't a difference maker, maybe he will be next year.  Ringgold and Abbamonte were.  Ringgold and McCall weren't even close statistically, atleast Dube and Abbamonte's numbers were similiar, so i don't have as large of a problem with that selection.  That choice came down to who was on the better team.  And Dube was not the difference in their record change from 1 year to the next, The Devils offense scored 5 more points a game in the most recent year.  As for Ringgold stats being juiced, if anything they were understated as Abbamonte's were. I dont think McDaniel would pad a players stats 1 year and then not the next, think about it.  Statistics at McDaniel are legit and always have been, and the official stats are kept by the home team, in Ringgolds 6 away games in his senior year he had 16, 12, 8, 24, 21, & 17 tackles.  You don't think opposing CC schools would pad Ringgold's stats do you?  So much for that theory.  Please just admit the obvious, Ringgold and Abbamonte were the most deserving and were not selected for who know's what reason.  It's a fact that the most deserving don't always get what they deserve, it is a fact of life.  I just hope the people who post on this site know the facts and realize who was truely the most deserving.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

Again, it is a known fact that Mcdaniel juices their tackle stats.  Drew did not get the special treatment as much as Ringgold, but this is just a league wide known fact.

I was going to let you ramble on and look stupid, but you're getting sort of carried away now.

A team - like McDaniel - who struggles on offense will obviously have "juiced up tackle stats."

Think about it ... it's not that hard to understand.  A defense will be on the field longer (a.k.a. for more plays) if an offense fails to pick up first downs.  This has been the case for the Green Terror the last few seasons.

And if you still think they "juice their stats," simply look at their solo-to-assisted tackle ratio.  It's actually higher than most teams.

So get a grip, dude.  Not sure what your beef is with McDaniel ... but it's obvious to the knowledgeable football person that McDaniel records stats just like the next school.