FB: Centennial Conference

[PA_wesleyfan]

BT

You can add Temple to that list as well as Villanova, Lehigh and a few other DIAA to those schools because kids and the NJAC schools as well. I know Temple has recruited using the line we are DI and you can play here !! But I have contented all along that Wisconsin schools are more comparable to Pa's DII. I think Mt Union gets the best of the best because of reputation. Just as I believe that Wesley has now taken a bite into the NJAC southern NJ area. Wesley also recruits well in Del and Chester countys on Pa

[CBE]

I'm going with Whitewater.

[Pat Coleman]

But there are only 4 or 5 D2 schools in Ohio. I don't disagree that Coach Kehres has built a monster through hard work but there are well over 20 D3 schools just in the Eastern part of Pa plus (14) D2 PSAC schools throughout the state competing for players.

I believe if Mount Union were in Pennsylvania they would still do just fine, thanks.

Allegheny put together a nice run in the early '90s in PA when they had good coaching. Mount Union just has hung onto its coach.

[BTEXPRESS]

But there are only 4 or 5 D2 schools in Ohio. I don't disagree that Coach Kehres has built a monster through hard work but there are well over 20 D3 schools just in the Eastern part of Pa plus (14) D2 PSAC schools throughout the state competing for players.

I believe if Mount Union were in Pennsylvania they would still do just fine, thanks.

Allegheny put together a nice run in the early '90s in PA when they had good coaching. Mount Union just has hung onto its coach.

AGREED

[ccfan27]

It has to be more than good coaching. Mount Union has to attract better athletes than the other Division III institutions. No doubt Kehres is a fantastic coach, but you don't win the way they have with schemes and motivation. They have the most talented team in Division III year in and year out and that comes from the athletes that choose to go to their school. Who can blame a kid who may struggle to make an impact on a lower division 1 team that decides to go win 3 or 4 national championships as a star at Mount Union. I certainly can't blame these kids. The statement that this is all coaching in my opinion doesn't really hold too much water in the argument. Sure, kids may want to play for Kehres because he can get them National Championships but it's more than schemes and motivation.

[SaintsFAN]

It has to be more than good coaching. Mount Union has to attract better athletes than the other Division III institutions. No doubt Kehres is a fantastic coach, but you don't win the way they have with schemes and motivation. They have the most talented team in Division III year in and year out and that comes from the athletes that choose to go to their school. Who can blame a kid who may struggle to make an impact on a lower division 1 team that decides to go win 3 or 4 national championships as a star at Mount Union. I certainly can't blame these kids. The statement that this is all coaching in my opinion doesn't really hold too much water in the argument. Sure, kids may want to play for Kehres because he can get them National Championships but it's more than schemes and motivation.

They really don't... not EVERY year... Like this year for instance.  Wesley was MORE talented.  And MUC lost their QB, top RB (two weeks prior) and had their all conference DE get suspended.  The difference is Larry Kehres.  GREAT coaching... not good coaching.  Its great.

[BTEXPRESS]

But when you bring in 100 recruits a year and have almost 200 athletes in preseason camp and have a full 10 game JV schedule and have players waiting until their Junior year to play, and have a favorable admissions department....................WELL you are not comparing APPLES TO APPLES with the average D3 football program who might have 80 players on a roster and maybe plays a 3 game JV schedule.etc. If you want to call that great coaching??? That being said, I would bet that is the magic process used by the top TEN D3 football programs in the country. In Division I almost all the schools play by the same set of rules i.e. number of scholarships, like,kind facilites,set limit on full time coaches, etc. In D3 the schools commitments to their football programs are all over the map. That is why you have seen the same few schools advance in the playoffs the last few years. It also reaffirms what a great season a team like Johns Hopkins had this past season.

[SaintsFAN]

But when you bring in 100 recruits a year and have almost 200 athletes in preseason camp and have a full 10 game JV schedule and have players waiting until their Junior year to play, and have a favorable admissions department....................WELL you are not comparing APPLES TO APPLES with the average D3 football program who might have 80 players on a roster and maybe plays a 3 game JV schedule.etc. If you want to call that great coaching??? That being said, I would bet that is the magic process used by the top TEN D3 football programs in the country. In Division I almost all the schools play by the same set of rules i.e. number of scholarships, like,kind facilites,set limit on full time coaches, etc. In D3 the schools commitments to their football programs are all over the map. That is why you have seen the same few schools advance in the playoffs the last few years. It also reaffirms what a great season a team like Johns Hopkins had this past season.

The OAC is a top academic conference.  There's no favorable admissions department.  Seriously.  Just say "agree to disagree"... thats insulting to that conference and school.  I'm not even a fan of the school, but I know some people up there.  The coaches weren't allowed to even leave their campus for recruiting until a couple years ago.  

I've been to Mount Union a few times and their facility is no different than anywhere else.  Its older actually... its the oldest stadium in Ohio.  

Look I'm a fan of TMC (and an alum)... I had the same questions about MUC a few years back.   Its easy to fall into assumptions about admissions, scholarships etc.  Most schools in the area have JV schedule -- I know TMC does.  

I would guarantee you that JHU gives more academic scholarship money than Mount Union does.  But thats for academics.  The plain fact is, that when Larry Kehres retires --- their run will end.  

Its very hard to grasp what I'm saying... but if you do some research on MUC on this website and their own website, I think you'll see what I'm talking about.   Here's one little anecdote from this past weekend... I had a buddy travel up to MUC for the game... and he remarked to me that such and such (a HS teammate of his and a real pee-on) was All American at MUC... that my friends is coaching.  My buddy said he was terrible player in HS... and couldn't believe he was an All American.

Good luck and happy searching.

[BTEXPRESS]

I didn't say MUC is letting dummies into the school. But I can guarantee, even if a coach in the CC wanted to bring in 100 recruits a year, there is NO WAY the Admissions Directors in the CC would let them.Plus even with academic $$$ the average cost to attend a CC school is alot higher than an MUC, any Wisconsin school, Wesley etc. You think I am directing all this toward MUC and I am not. If you look at ANY of the top Ten D3 football programs, they are using the MUC model with their football programs ( 100 recruits, 200 players in preseason camp, full JV schedules, etc) Schools like St Johns, Washington & Jefferson, Wesley are all doing the same thing. Even schools closer to the CC conference, like Albright, Delaware Valley and Lycoming  are starting to do the same. The bottom line is if you are a good High School football player who wants to play for a National Championship you will have MUC at the top of your list. Just like if you are a great women's soccer player you consider North Carolina, a women's basketball player you consider U Conn, a women's volleyball player, Penn State. Those programs have built powerhouses in their respective sports just like coach Kehres has in D3 football!!!!

[ccfan27]

I have a question...anyone answer if you can. What percentage of the people that start preseason camp at these schools that bring in upwards of 100 freshmen in finish college on the team at that school. This is an honest question because I have seen even at a smaller school, I started with around 45 or 50 people in my recruiting class and we finished with 18 seniors in the end. People decided to stop playing for various reasons either they knew they weren't good enough to play, couldn't keep the grades and left school, needed to get a job to pay for school, transferred to play elsewhere, etc. I wonder if this is the case at the elite schools such as MUC or UWW or do many of these kids hang on for 4 years. After all they probably get to play in 9 or 10 games a year since MUC beats most of their opponents by 30. Any input would be appreciated. I am done with hating on MUC and Whitewater they have done what they are asked to do in order to get to the National Championship and are not breaking any rules in the process.

[BTEXPRESS]

I have a question...anyone answer if you can. What percentage of the people that start preseason camp at these schools that bring in upwards of 100 freshmen in finish college on the team at that school. This is an honest question because I have seen even at a smaller school, I started with around 45 or 50 people in my recruiting class and we finished with 18 seniors in the end. People decided to stop playing for various reasons either they knew they weren't good enough to play, couldn't keep the grades and left school, needed to get a job to pay for school, transferred to play elsewhere, etc. I wonder if this is the case at the elite schools such as MUC or UWW or do many of these kids hang on for 4 years. After all they probably get to play in 9 or 10 games a year since MUC beats most of their opponents by 30. Any input would be appreciated. I am done with hating on MUC and Whitewater they have done what they are asked to do in order to get to the National Championship and are not breaking any rules in the process.

CC  I have asked that same question a few times on this board as well. Do the kids stay at the same school but just as students?( if so the colleges have found a great source of income and a way to increase the male student population) do they transfer to another school to try and play football? or do they transfer to a less expensive state school/community college to save $$. The only point of reference I have is when my son was being recruited by Washington & Jefferson, they gave us a football yearbook which had the Seniors pictures on the back and I counted 13 Seniors for that upcoming season.

[ccfan27]

BT,

I was at my school for all 4 years of college. You see about every scenario that you listed in your reply. Some stay if they enjoy the school enough, some leave because of money, some leave because of football, some fail out of school. I would say of the 45 or so people that I came into preseason camp with my freshman year, that I graduated with about 8-10 of the ones that quit football and 17 of our 18 seniors on the football team were there as freshmen(one transferred in).

[HScoach]

It has to be more than good coaching. Mount Union has to attract better athletes than the other Division III institutions. No doubt Kehres is a fantastic coach, but you don't win the way they have with schemes and motivation. They have the most talented team in Division III year in and year out and that comes from the athletes that choose to go to their school. Who can blame a kid who may struggle to make an impact on a lower division 1 team that decides to go win 3 or 4 national championships as a star at Mount Union. I certainly can't blame these kids. The statement that this is all coaching in my opinion doesn't really hold too much water in the argument. Sure, kids may want to play for Kehres because he can get them National Championships but it's more than schemes and motivation.

Umm, you're wrong.  It's nothing more than Larry Kehres.   And when he retires, the kingdom will come crashing down.

I wish they could simply get by with simply having bigger, faster, stronger, better players than the rest of D3 but that isn't the case.  Each of the WIAC teams Mount has faced (LaCrosse in the 1990's and UWW now) were bigger and faster than Mount.  Same with Rowan.  Shoot, even Ohio Northern in thier own conference had better talent in the late 90/early 00's than Mount did but never beat them. 

At this point, the best recruiter for Kehres is all of his ex-players spread around the country that are high school coaches.  He's turned out some very successful HS coaches that feed the program with kids.  There are also tons of kids that come to Mount to play even though they weren't actively recruited just to be a part of the program. 

I personally know of one local kid that went to Mount as a QB simply because his goal was to be a high school coach and there isn't a better guy to play for and learn under than LK.  He never cracked the travel roster and never stepped on the varsity field in his 4 years but he enjoyed every minute of his time at MUC and he learned a ton from LK and now has the benefit of having Mount on his resume and LK as a reference.  That carries a TON of weight in Ohio high school coaching circles.   

Mount wins so consistently because they have great depth constantly competing for playing time led by a great coach that is very satisfied with staying at his alma mater instead of chasing the big $.  Kehres has had multiple D1 offers and he's politely said no thanks everytime.  His teams are very well prepared and rarely beat themselves.

Allegheny in the early 1990's was an absolute beast until O'Keefe quit.  He's now a very successful O-coordinator at Iowa, but 'Gheny has turned into crap since he left.  If he would have stayed we could be talking about Allegheny as the King of D3 instead of Mount.  And once LK leaves Alliance, Mout will return to being the average program that they were before he took over in 1986.

Mount has been hearing the catcalls and theories about why they have all these shady advantages over the rest of D3, but it's really as simple as Larry Kehres.  When the MUC reign started in 1993, Mount was the David playing Goliath Rowan in the Stagg.  Mount was a little private college in a small Ohio town with 1,500 students playing big, bad Rowan with all the D1 transfers, big student body and low tuition.  Kind of funny how 15 years later it's Mount that is the Goliath, but the town and tuition hasn't gotten anymore advantageous.  Alliance is still a crappy blue collar town in northeast Ohio and Mount is still expensive.

[HScoach]

And on the subject of recruiting, here's the list of colleges playing football in Ohio.  There is a ton of competition for HS talent here. 

DI-FBS
1.  Ohio State University
2.  Akron
3.  Bowling Green
4.  Kent State
5.  Miami
6.  Ohio U.
7.  Toledo
8.  Cincinnatti

DI-FCS
9.  Dayton
10.  Youngstown State

DII
11.  Ashland
12.  Findlay
13.  Tiffin
14.  Central State U.
15.  Lake Erie College


DIII
16.  Baldwin Wallace
17.  Bluffton
18.  Capital
19.  Case Westeren
20.  Defiance
21.  Dennison
22.  Heidelberg
23.  Hiram
24.  John Carroll
25.  Kenyon
26.  Marietta
27.  Mt. St. Joseph
28.  Mount Union
29.  Muskingham
30.  Oberlin
31.  Ohio Northern
32.  Ohio Wesleyan
33.  Otterbein
34.  Wilmington
35.  Wittenberg
36.  Wooster

NAIA
37.  Ohio Domincan
38.  Malone
39.  Walsh
40. Notre Dame College

[BTEXPRESS]

Don't forget to get your picks in for the PICKEMS. We are still missing a few. I knew there has been alot of discussion about the Championship game on Saturday, but is still kind of neat to be able to turn on the televsion and see OUR D 3 athletes playing on National TV. I don't think I have missed watching the game since ESPN started showing it live. The best of luck to both teams. I will make this bold prediction, a team wearing PURPLE will win.