FB: Centennial Conference

[HSCTiger74]

I didn't say MUC is letting dummies into the school. But I can guarantee, even if a coach in the CC wanted to bring in 100 recruits a year, there is NO WAY the Admissions Directors in the CC would let them.

Just out of curiosity, why not? Unless there is some conference rule against it, if all of those recruits were academically qualified and could anticipate being admitted even if they weren't athletes then there seems to be no reason not to bring them in. An institutional decision to upgrade the football program shouldn't be viewed any differently than a decision to upgrade music or drama or premed, as long as the values of the school aren't being compromised. And the additional 40-60 annual tuition payments (especially at private schools) wouldn't be unwelcome either.

[BTEXPRESS]

Because for the most part, many of the CC schools can't find 100 recruits that would qualify for admissions and have parents willing to pay the tuition ( average $45,000 a year) even with financial aid. I don't have hard facts, but I would guess the average recruiting class for a CC school is between 30 to 40 recruits in most years. Rosters are usually between 70 to 85 players. Many CC coaches are frustrated when several recruits are denied admission or wait listed each year. That being said, I am sure EVERY D3 coach in America has that same problem. I agree, in these tough ecomonic times it would make sense for these colleges to use football as bait to help increase the male student population and help with the bottom line. Again,D3 schools are all over the map on how thay view football and athletics in general as far as their commitment both financially and how they support the programs. Look at both Northeastern and Hofstra who both recently dropped long time football programs, yet Old Dominion and Georgia State are willing to commit $$$ Millions to start 1AA programs up. I don't know what the right answer is??

[muledaddy]

    Raiders over Warhawks

[Reserved Seat]

Mount Union

[BTEXPRESS]

As the snow is sitting on the ground, our D3 season is officially over. Congratulations to OLD ENDS( the innovator of our CC Pickems) for winning the playoff title. Below are our official standings for our playoff picks. Thank you for participating. Wishing everyone a safe enjoyable holiday!! Before you know it the 2010 season will be here.

Old Ends                  17-2
69 Mule                    15-4
CCFan 27                  15-4
CBE                           15-4
Go Hop                      15-4
BTexpress                  14-5
Reserved Seat            13-6
Coachchris                  12-4**
Muledaddy                  11-6**
Greekgeek                  11-8
Reddevil4life                4-2**


Now I am going to close out the season with some comments that may sound like sour grapes. As I watched the championship game on Saturday with my son. I was kind of rooting for Whitewater to take down the Giant Mount Union just for something different. My son asked me why? He said UWW is D3 in name only, that they really are different from most other D3 programs and should really be playing in D2. After the game, I did some research and have to agree. They are a public school with an enrollment of 10700. The yearly tuition with room and board for in state students is $11,882 and they play in a renovated stadium that seats 13,000. I would say that compares to almost all the NCAA schools playing D2 football, including the schools in the Pa playing in the PSAC conference. Whitewater doesn't smell, taste or feel like other D3 schools including all the CC schools, Hampden-Sydney, Randolph Macon, Albright, Lycoming,Wittenberg, Wabash, Mary Hardin Baylor, Linfield, etc and even MOUNT UNION.

[Pat Coleman]

However, a full 25% of Division III schools are state schools, so they are very much part of the norm.

This isn't high school, where schools are classified by their enrollment.

[greekgeek]

Thanks so much B T for doing the pickems this year, even if i did come in last, but it was fun. So Merry Christmas to all and have a very Safe and Happy New Year to all that played.
Love your comments B T, dosen't sound like sour grapes to me, facts are facts.....

[02 Warhawk]

However, a full 25% of Division III schools are state schools, so they are very much part of the norm.

This isn't high school, where schools are classified by their enrollment.

exactly Pat.....Whitewater had this stadium and that enrollment for YEARS and YEARs now..but yet they were a .500 team only 7-8 years ago, yet no one was complaining then.

Whitewater...like all colleges...recruit their players BEFORE they enroll into the university. So the enrollment has nothing to do with it's success, and everything to do with the coach staff and their recruiting.

[BTEXPRESS]

However, a full 25% of Division III schools are state schools, so they are very much part of the norm.

This isn't high school, where schools are classified by their enrollment.

exactly Pat.....Whitewater had this stadium and that enrollment for YEARS and YEARs now..but yet they were a .500 team only 7-8 years ago, yet no one was complaining then.

Whitewater...like all colleges...recruit their players BEFORE they enroll into the university. So the enrollment has nothing to do with it's success, and everything to do with the coach staff and their recruiting.

Will never change your mind. But we are not talking APPLES to APPLES. Big difference recruiting kids, especially in this economy when you compare schools costing $50,000 a year and ones under $12,000 a year. 13,000 seat stadiums vs 2500 seat stadiums. Easier to get D1 transfers coming back to their home state schools ( ie Rowan a few years ago) because of the costs, than most other D3 schools. I know it is what is it is, no use getting into a pi***** contest. But I have seen many D3 colleges in person over the years and 90% don't look like the WIAC and NJAC schools. They look like D2 schools to me. Just watching the championship game I realize UWW and MU are clearly heads and shoulders above the rest of D3 and the scores through the playoffs bare that out. But I guess there is always hope for the other 236 teams in D3, it is why they play the game.

[Pat Coleman]

The good news is that classification in college is not based on looks, it's based on what the school chooses to do and which set of rules it chooses to follow. Judging based on looks makes it sound like you want D-III to be a country club.

[Ralph Turner]

I think that the high prestige colleges may have an advantage in other sports, though.

It looks to me that there are plenty of very smart athletes, especially women, who are selecting a prestigous D-III, and the financial package that their grades can get, over the low D-1 or D-II experience.

We may not see that in football, but I believe that that can be seen in other sports such as NESCAC, UAA and NEWMAC hoops, in NESCAC and UAA baseball, Liberty League, E8 and Centennial football. (JHU had a very good run this year).

I am not sure about soccer or volleyball or lacrosse.  Tennis has power teams from prestigous conferences.

Golf is "too warm weather" to determine if there are power schools, altho' the PGA approved program at Methodist may be a good case.

UT-Tyler is a real challenge for us in the ASC.  Tuition is $155/hour;  $3021 for an 15-hour semester.  There are nice apartments in a safe neighborhood across the street from the school for $299/month.  That is less than $15,000 total cost for a year of school at UT-Tyler.

UTDallas is a different story.  I consider UTD on an academic par with Trinity TX.  Guaranteed tuition for UTD is $4925 for a full semester load (15-22 hours).

Neither plays football.

[BTEXPRESS]

The good news is that classification in college is not based on looks, it's based on what the school chooses to do and which set of rules it chooses to follow. Judging based on looks makes it sound like you want D-III to be a country club.

Pat, does Catholic look more like Whitewater or Mount Union? No where am I accusing the UWW's or Rowan's of the world of not playing by the rules set forth by the NCAA for D3 schools. But they have a distinct advantage when it comes to attracting the kind of caliber athlete it takes to reach the top of the mountain in D3 football. But let's say, you are a potential recruit. Would you like to play in a  first class ,sold out stadium in front of 13,000 fans or have your parents pay FOUR times the tuition and play in front of a couple hundred. In 1a for example, it the same decision that say a kid looking to play at Temple vs Penn State would face. But like I said above, there is still hope for the other D3 teams. Look at what Rutgers has done over the past few seasons with the right coach and right surport from the Administration. UWW and MU can't stay on top forever or......................maybe they can? It takes nothing away from the thousands of kids playing D3 football  for the enjoyment during the season,it's just during playoff time you realize there are the few HAVES and almost everyone else is a HALF NOT. Happy holidays to all!!!!PS Ralph couldn't agree more with your post.

[Pat Coleman]

The good news is that classification in college is not based on looks, it's based on what the school chooses to do and which set of rules it chooses to follow. Judging based on looks makes it sound like you want D-III to be a country club.

Pat, does Catholic look more like Whitewater or Mount Union?

Who cares what they look like? No 238 institutions (425 if you count non-football schools) can fit into your stereotypical mold.

[SaintsFAN]

Well you continue to cite Rowan as an example.  They weren't even included in the postseason in 2009.  Football is truly cyclical and when Larry Kehres leaves Mount Union, they will come back to the rest of D3.  Whitewater is on quite a run... but they too will revert back eventually. 

Meanwhile, the its on the rest of D3 to catch up with them.


Each had a scare in the Seminfinals this year --- and Witt could have came close if they hadn't lost their QB in the 2nd half.  Climbing the mountain is possible.  BUT --- I liked the football I saw on TV during the Stagg Bowl.   They are two legitimate dynasties as Pat's crew has said.  Emphasis on legitimate.... what they are doing can be done anywhere, given the right people in charge.

Just my .02

[02 Warhawk]

The good news is that classification in college is not based on looks, it's based on what the school chooses to do and which set of rules it chooses to follow. Judging based on looks makes it sound like you want D-III to be a country club.

Pat, does Catholic look more like Whitewater or Mount Union? No where am I accusing the UWW's or Rowan's of the world of not playing by the rules set forth by the NCAA for D3 schools. But they have a distinct advantage when it comes to attracting the kind of caliber athlete it takes to reach the top of the mountain in D3 football. But let's say, you are a potential recruit. Would you like to play in a  first class ,sold out stadium in front of 13,000 fans or have your parents pay FOUR times the tuition and play in front of a couple hundred. In 1a for example, it the same decision that say a kid looking to play at Temple vs Penn State would face. But like I said above, there is still hope for the other D3 teams. Look at what Rutgers has done over the past few seasons with the right coach and right surport from the Administration. UWW and MU can't stay on top forever or......................maybe they can? It takes nothing away from the thousands of kids playing D3 football  for the enjoyment during the season,it's just during playoff time you realize there are the few HAVES and almost everyone else is a HALF NOT. Happy holidays to all!!!!PS Ralph couldn't agree more with your post.

Don't assume just b/c Whitewater has a larger stadium that they sell it out every game. Infact I don't think Whitewater has EVER filled up Perkins Stadium. They probably only (on average) fill up 40-50% of it during the regular season. then even less than that during the playoffs when students aren't around for the holidays....