FB: Centennial Conference

[Ralph Turner]

Sorry to jump bacjk so soon, but I failed to address your comments on Hansen:
OK, he is in business to make $. However, he still provides a great service to his readers. If he was just looking to place as many kids as possible to make $, what does it matter where he places them.

Okay, Don Hansen is in business to make money.  He has 17 players on his first team All-American Team.  Those 6-5-6 defenses are really tough; all of the holes are covered, they outnumber the linemen, and the dual man-to-man zone coverage is brutal.   


Obviously he saw something in Abbamonte's stats to place him 2nd team above so many of your noteworthys. I still disagree with him as Abbo's stats blow away even the DBs on his first team, but at least he was given some due! How do you not rate a player with stats at the top of the division? There are thousands of players in D3; what harm is it to list hundreds that did especially well? The more that deserve it the better. List any and every kid that is DESERVING!

You know, I thought that about my kids' experience playing youth soccer.  Why all 3 of my kids have trophies from Under-8 Soccer that are bigger than the "Walnut and Bronze"!  They were deserving, you know.

Set a bar and stick by it,

Pat has set the bar.  He lists only 11 position players on each of his All-American teams.

but do not fail your readers (and the players) by "tweaking" one player over another unless it can be validly applied. Again, how can you possibly deny proper recognition to a player, any player, who has the stats to justify/qualify? Do some research;

and maybe the research says that the player's contribution to his team beyond the numbers is worthy of the award

Harris made def back of year last year also--why, what qualified him? Abbamonte led D3 in passes defensed as a junior. This year he switched roles to mainly stop the run since they graduated Ringgold, their run-stopper. With 125 tackles, he blows away almost every other DB in D3; yet he still had 4 int.s,11.5 tfl, 2 ff,and many more than the 3 pbu.s that he was credited for (game films would prove this true). That is an all-around player, pass & run defense! He paced the CC in tackles (Dube , a LB, did not have as many in 1 more game). He set a program record with 174 career solo tackles and finished 3rd in McDaniel history in total tackles. Beside Hansen AA 2nd team, he earned CC 1st (also 1st as Jr and 2nd team as soph),Hansen's South All-Region 1st team, ECAC All-SW 1st team, and D3football.com All-South Region 3rd team.

You mean that Pat and his crew of SID's (who see lots of players every year) recognized him enough to make him All-Region?

Pretty deserving, huh? I know that there are many, many others as well, but how can you deny such a prolific season and career and admit that some players DO get screwed

(hmmm, you mean a second team All-American from Don Hansen is not worth as much as a D3Football.com South Region 3rd team?)

--sometimes they are passed over by less deserving players and that being on a winning team (especially a champion) will elevate a player's status irregardless of stats. Why must you be so obstinate. Can you understand, if not agree, with my points? If not, WHY?

I know I am trying to understand your points.  Maybe Pat decided to acknowledge Abbamonte's contributions by recognizing the tie for the last safety spot on the All-Region team.  He gave Abbamonte the more prestigeous Third Team South Region Defense award.

Interesting points,  jstrap.   Have a good off-season!   

[Ralph Turner]

Gray Fox:

>>You must know Abbamonte  personally<<

Now, now. Perhaps xterjstrap has a daughter who was childhood friends with the young man.

OxyBob

FYI to regular CC posters, this is an inside joke to those of us who post regularly on the SCIAC board. 

It is slow in the off season.  "Idle hands are the Devil's playthings"

, +1 Karma Oxy Bob! 

[The Observation Deck]

It's a shame nobody else on McDaniel's team could tackle. Those other teams with smaller tackle numbers must have more than one guy who can make plays.

[Pat Coleman]

There are so many meaningless points that could be addressed though I see some people who aren't related to the player in question had some good takes on the subject.

I'll say this -- you say we should recognize every player that's deserving. (I assume that's deserving by your standards, whatever they are. They seem to be heavily based on sheer volume of tackles.) I would say this -- you can only start 11 players, no matter how good your team is. Every coach has to make a decision as to which 11 players are his first string, which are his second string.

And therefore, so do we. We do not participate in, nor do we condone, the watering down of awards.

I don't see why we need to have this conversation again. I believe you already had it with Pat Cummings via e-mail. I am glad that you played sprint football at the Naval Academy and all but there is a world outside the Centennial Conference and over the past several years, this league has not measured up to the rest of Division III. I think if you had gone out and seen some of these teams in person you'd feel diff... well, scratch that. You'd probably still be biased as hell. But an unbiased person would know. Tackling a Centennial ballcarrier didn't mean much for Dickinson when it got pounded by Wesley in the playoffs, nor did it for Johns Hopkins in 2005 (28-3 loss) or Muhlenberg in 2004 (31-3 loss). And those last two, Johns Hopkins '05 and Muhlenberg '04, each lost to teams that themselves lost in the next round.

This is the state of the Centennial these days.

Absolutely no idea, especially in light of the fact that immediately after each game at least one opposing coach, and sometimes many, sought him out to speak with before lining-up to shake hands. I'm kinda sure they weren't looking for him to say how poorly he played.

That doesn't mean they were looking for him to tell him, "you are the best defensive player in this conference." Because their votes spoke otherwise.

[eastregioncoach]

I saw that F&M was advertising a fulltime coaching position on footballscoop.  Was wondering if anyone here knew which coach left? or which position is open?  Thanks a lot.

[xterjstrap]

Wow, I'm glad I got some input flowing, at least.
First of all, the Navy Sprint player is Drew's brother who is really P.O.'d because he was on Navy's Varsity before "defecting" to Sprint and he has seen some decent talent as have I.
I am Drew's uncle. I played DB on Randolph Macon's '69 (first ever) Rockne Bowl winner which then proclaimed us the "unofficial" East Coast Champions. Drew's dad (my brother) played DB/WR at Frostburg '73-'76 (when they began a 26 game losing streak and were rated by S.I. [yes the big boy- Sportds Illustrated] as the 106th worst in the nation).
I guess it is not appropriate for relatives to be upset, have questions,ask for explanation, and make a point!
As to Hansen's "17 players on his first team", it seems to allow some excellent young men and players (more so than D3.com) some deserved recognition. Even the NFL has 2nd team All-Pro and many more than 22 players recognized as pro bowl honorees and they only have 32 teams! (Even the big boys like to see their name called!).
Yes, I agree, trophies don't mean jack---they all carry a lot of dust many years later, but having your play recognized for deserved honors is priceless (sounds like a great idea for a commercial).
Pat hasn't set any "bar" or "give" anything; who is his lordship to decide such, especially when there are no hard, cold stats to back them up; nor does he have a right to,--- the players earn and deserve such recognition by pounds of sweat and hard effort! Naming more than 11 per side does not dilute the awards.Coleman said even teams have 1st & 2nd strings---why not 2nd & 3rd teams---they aren't quite as good as 1st but still deserve credit and mention---this may be a wonderful highlight in some young man's life, but you say only 11 should be able to celebrate.
As far as contribution to his team, Dube had six other  all CC defensive players to help out, Abbamonte had one CC HM and as defensive team captain was an awesome leader to such a very, young squad and, sadly, without Abbamonte, McDaniel probably does not win a game as his plays were key in stopping the opponents from scoring and/or setting up his O.
As for Pat "and his crew of SID's", almost no comment. I appreciate, somewhat, the effort they put in---it is long hours with much work, but they signed up for the job, probably with hopes of being the next Cummings/Coleman. The Terror SID was wholly wanting; check out the Media Guide for front cover pics with eyes closed, terrible views, etc. and the stats were not even close to reality as shown on video review, not even close!!!!!!
Incidently, Dickinson's head coach told Drew that he was going to his graduation to make sure he graduates and does not return to the playing field and also that he voted Drew as DPOY! (unless of course he was lying).
Its nice that ONLY "some people" "who aren't related to the player" "had some good takes" !
I agree the CC is down, but not true of more than quite a few of its players! We've seen "higher" levels of play, but football is still football at any level---sure there are some bigger, faster, stronger players, but not across the board.
And even MT. Union does not impress me anymore---it must be real tough for a bunch of DI, IA & II players to move down and all go to the same school to beat up on non-scholarship players. Individually, many DIII players could hang and even prevail, but not on the whole as a team. Let Union move up and see how they do there instead of taking 1st in an "inferior" league every year.
I'm glad I gave you guys a reason to wake up, now if only you'd wake up DURING the season! Oh, and get a life guys---15,858; 228; 892; 713; 11,227; 306 ? Nothing better to do, huh?
Hey Ralphie, give yourself a +1 Karma yourself !!! 

[Pat Coleman]

I'm glad I gave you guys a reason to wake up, now if only you'd wake up DURING the season! Oh, and get a life guys---15,858; 228; 892; 713; 11,227; 306 ? Nothing better to do, huh?
Hey Ralphie, give yourself a +1 Karma yourself !!! 

We wake up just fine during the season, but none of the people who posted are Centennial Conference fans. However, people know when an irrational argument is going on and they flock to it.

Some people don't just post to complain. Some have observations about Division III to pass along that aren't biased.

The football All-Region teams are actually chosen by staff and SIDs, not just SIDs.

Even the NFL has 2nd team All-Pro and many more than 22 players recognized as pro bowl honorees and they only have 32 teams!

Same here. Do you even know what you're talking about?

And if you're going to just make stuff up, go post on AOL's message boards, not here. This isn't even close to true.

And even MT. Union does not impress me anymore---it must be real tough for a bunch of DI, IA & II players to move down and all go to the same school to beat up on non-scholarship players.

[Pat Coleman]

I'm glad I gave you guys a reason to wake up, now if only you'd wake up DURING the season! Oh, and get a life guys---15,858; 228; 892; 713; 11,227; 306 ? Nothing better to do, huh?
Hey Ralphie, give yourself a +1 Karma yourself !!! 

We wake up just fine during the season, but none of the people who posted are Centennial Conference fans. However, people know when an irrational argument is going on and they flock to it.

Some people don't just post to complain. Some have observations about Division III to pass along that aren't biased.

The football All-Region teams are actually chosen by staff and SIDs, not just SIDs.

Even the NFL has 2nd team All-Pro and many more than 22 players recognized as pro bowl honorees and they only have 32 teams!

Same here -- four teams. Do you even know what you're talking about?

And if you're going to just make stuff up, go post on AOL's message boards, not here. This isn't even close to true.

And even MT. Union does not impress me anymore---it must be real tough for a bunch of DI, IA & II players to move down and all go to the same school to beat up on non-scholarship players.

[Terrorizer24]

Abbomonte was by far the best player on either side of the ball in the CC this past season.  He, like Ringgold the year before, was skrewed out of player of the year honors, and both should have been All-Americans, by all publications.  No other player took over the game like Abbomonte, and oppositions dictated their game plan based on him.  It is a tragedy that Dube was POY.  Abbomonte was a great leader and was "that McDaniel player" like Ringgold, Wilchinski, Bartolain, and Sileki before him.  It is a fact that the best defensive player in the conference ALWAYS wears the green and gold.

[CC#1fan]

Let's not kid ourselves and compare Ringold to Wilchinski, Bartolain and Sileki.  Thats a kid among men.  Sileki, as barbaric as he was, was a great motivator and a hard worker.  Bartolain, as a player, was at the least, a great defensive player and a great captain. Wilchinski, although he had trouble getting off blocks, was a football players player, in the weight room before anyone, at the meeting before anyone, and worked harder than anyone.  Ringold was just some kid with just some talent on a less than mediocre football team.  Although I do admire your pathos for the green terrible, lets not forget to put players in context of their league.

[Terrorizer24]

Less than mediocre?  Nationally ranked defenses are less than mediocre? Despite the Green Terrors lack of offense during Ringgold's junior and senior year, the defense was nationally ranked during each of these seasons, and no one in the conference was more feared than Ringgold.  Back to back 20+ tackle games, i'd say he deserves to be in the same conversation as Wilchinski and others, and i'm sure Wilchinski and Bartolain would agree.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

Less than mediocre?  Nationally ranked defenses are less than mediocre? Despite the Green Terrors lack of offense during Ringgold's junior and senior year, the defense was nationally ranked during each of these seasons, and no one in the conference was more feared than Ringgold.  Back to back 20+ tackle games, i'd say he deserves to be in the same conversation as Wilchinski and others, and i'm sure Wilchinski and Bartolain would agree.

Ever considered they have been "nationally ranked" because of the lack of offense in the Centennial?

A good example is Curry.  Year in and year out, they have had on the best defenses in the country (statistically - just like McDaniel).  Curry has made the NCAA playoffs the last four years because of that "nationally ranked" defense.  They've also lost in the first round every year, giving up 42, 37, 35, and 34 points in those four losses.

Point being, I wouldn't measure a defense by just the stats.

[Terrorizer24]

Well that IS how defense's are ranked, by statistics, and the whole point of this arguement is that Riggold was the best defensive player in the CC 2 seasons ago and Abbomonte was this past season, and neither received POY because the Terror's offense was sub par and lost a bunch of games for McDaniel.  The Defensive POY should be awarded to the best defensive player, not the defensive player who plays on a team with a good offense so they have a good record.  Thats the arguement, and the fact is McDaniel's offense is terrible because of keating, and the terror defense has been nationally ranked recently and yet 2 deserving players were short changed on post season awards.

[Pat Coleman]

However, in the rest of Division III, having a defense that dominated other Centennial teams doesn't put a player on a national pedestal.

Which is why our awards have come out the way they have.

[Pat Coleman]

I see McDaniel didn't exactly dominate other Centennial teams, either.

TOTAL DEFENSE            G  Rush Pass Plys Yards  Avg  TD Yds/G
---------------------------------------------------------------
1. Ursinus............. 11  1030 1597  693  2627  3.8  15 238.8
2. Muhlenberg.......... 10   917 1629  622  2546  4.1  21 254.6
3. Johns Hopkins....... 10   906 1651  628  2557  4.1  18 255.7
4. Dickinson........... 11   850 2008  661  2858  4.3  28 259.8
5. Franklin & Marshall. 10  1607 1653  565  3260  5.8  32 326.0
6. McDaniel............ 10  1706 1856  685  3562  5.2  30 356.2
7. Gettysburg.......... 10  1810 1942  714  3752  5.3  33 375.2

Now, as was mentioned the offense for McDaniel was awful, in fact, the worst in the league. McDaniel's defense gave up the second-most yards in the league, but it was certainly on the field a lot.

However, it also gave up the third-most yards per play on defense, 5.2. That's not very impressive either. And it speaks to what Observation Deck wondered, whether anyone in front of Abbamonte could tackle.

Eastregioncoach, I'm sorry -- I don't know what position is being hired for at F&M.