FB: Centennial Conference

[Terrorizer24]

Here are some facts

In 2005 Dickinson played 5 games with Dube - they were 1 and 4
they played 5 games without him - they were 3 and 2. 
Difference Maker??

In 2005 McDaniel Played an average of 76 plays per game on defense, the CC average - about 72 plays per game.  (Add up each teams statistics if you want).  In 2006 McDaniel played an average of 68 plays per game on defense, Ursinus - 63, the CC average - about 65.  We are talking about approx. 4 plays per game off the league average.  Not enough to "JUICE" up McDaniel stats. 

As for your "solo-to-assisted" tackle ratio (a very popular stat used to judge the accuracy of a stat keeper according to BEARFAN), The Home Team keeps the official statistics.  In 2005 - Ringgold recorded 17 solo and 7 assists at Dickinson.  Please tell me that you don't think Dickinson's stat keeper wanted to "JUICE" up Ringgold's stats.  The fact that the Home team keeps the stats prevents such "Juicing" of a certain players stats. 

Bring real FACTS to the arguement BEARFAN.

[BearFan01]

listen I have no interest in getting in some pissing match with mcdaniel fans.......

Your opinion is you have the best defensive player in the conference year in and year out. 

I disagree. 

I do not think ron ringgold was better than the undersized kid he played next to his senior year, i think that kid was a lot better actually, and I saw 3 mcdaniel games that season. I think drew was a lot better canidate for POY than ringgold was.  I said that already.   

I have no magical formula or anything else when it comes to tackle stats.  I do know that stats in our conference are often wrong......  with credit going to the wrong players.  With ringgold, that seemed to happen in his favor A LOT.... watch a tape with a play by play and see how many times he was credited with a tackle but wasn't even close. Seeing they came out and said from day one of preseason and said he should be POY that year, it seems even more suspicious.  Doesn't it also seem suspicious he was light years ahead of everyone else in the tackle stats ...I mean ridiculously... it was not like this season at mcdaniel...... he had 3 good dlineman playing in front of him, a great backer next to him, and drew behind him.... yet he was making 17, 18, ..ect tackles a game......  seems highly suspicious.  As for POY that year, Mccall single handledly beat teams and scored multiple times that season.  With him blitzing, he could take over a game.  Ringgold was a good player on a defense of good players.  As mcdaniel fans you should know ron was far from alone out there his senior year, he played with some very good players. 

Which is a great case why butler should not have won POY this season...... he plays with a ton of great other players.  Dube does as well, but my biased opinion is he has less talent around him then the guys at ursinus. 

That is my answers to your porblems with my statements.   I give them only to not be seen as ducking your responses.  I'd much rather discuss the future of the league then 2 seasons ago.   

I have no problem with mcdaniel...... I just have little interest in talking about a program which was not a contender, not even close to one, and has seemingly little chance of being one this season.  I see Hopkins having a ton of good freshman playing last season...... so they look to be quite good.  Dickinson moves Mitchelll to qb.... should change the offense up and they have some holes to fill, but also look good.  The bears..... well with just a little offense they could really make some noise. 

That is interesting centennial talk.  Carrying on about a player who graduates (is he graduating?...his 4 years are up) and is done playing seems pointless.  We all know you guys think he should have won the award.... many people don't, including the centennial coaches.  D-3football.com also did see him as an all american...... so be it.  Don hansen did not see a Mcdaniel game this season, but I am sure what's his name did.  I am sure they (@d3football.com) are more knowldgeable about the mid atlantic than don hansen. 

You want to talk mcdaniel..... you guys have a tailback yet?  How about an o-lineman or two?  Brad needs a lot of help on offense.  On defense, you were amoungst the worst in the league and lose your best player..... how you plan on being better? 

[Terrorizer24]

Just to follow up, and to get the last word, Ringgold did play with some talented players, and he was the most talented.  I'm not sure who you thought was a better linebacker who played with him.  Certainly not Matt Lufkin (a JR in Ringgolds SR season) who would split time at the spot in that season and his senior year (2006).  So i'm not quite sure where you were going with that.  Ringgold did have a few good D-Lineman in front of him for a total of 3 games of which they were all healthy, after that you saw a lot of different D-Lineman in there, no true standouts.  Yes, he had Drew behind him, and often the 2 combined for the bulk of the tackles.  I'm glad that you stated facts in your most recent post.  And True- The CC is often wrong about statistics, but those statistics are what we go on.  If we went on game film Ringgold may have had closer to 170 tackles than the 136 he was credited for.  I saw every game he played that year, and 136 was an understatement.  Finally, i entered this conversation because that is what people were talking about on this board, notice i did not start the conversation.  I would be glad to talk about the future of the CC.  McDaniel has no Offense besides BAER again this season.  Defensively, the Terror lost its best player (Abbamonte) but returns experience at the linebacker and d-line positions.  No POY candidate this year, maybe a few 1st teamers in Zabko, Catucci, and perhaps Giusti (the younger brother of a previous ALL CC defender from McDaniel).  The younger Giusti makes the transition from D-Line to LB this year in an effort to combine with Zabko as a dominate duo in the CC.  Catucci has been a stud since is freshman year, and often gets double and triple teamed, so it is obvious some others will have to step up for the Terror to return to its dominance.  I've heard from inside sources that recruiting has gone exceptionally well and some quality o-lineman should be making their way into Westminster come August.  Certainly hope so after the dismal years offensively in the past few seasons.   

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

First off, I'm a Bridgewater fan.

Secondly, to say this ...

Again, it is a known fact that Mcdaniel juices their tackle stats. [...] this is just a league wide known fact.

... and then this ...

I have no problem with mcdaniel...... I just have little interest in talking about a program which was not a contender, not even close to one, and has seemingly little chance of being one this season.

... is sort of contradictory.  If not contradictory, than it's clear you have no legitimate reason(s) why you questioned the credibility of a Sports Information office.

If you have a "problem" with who is (or isn't) picked for POTY, then don't say false and tactless statements like a school "juicing up stats."

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

Regarding McDaniel's reign being over...

I wouldn't get too excited.  Sure, it's clear that McDaniel going a combined 20-20 over the last four seasons isn't as good as their 38-8 record the previous four years.  But recent history has shown that it doesn't take much to contend for a conference championship.

Yes, their 4-6 record in 2006 was their first sub-.500 season since 1996 ... but also keep in mind that McDaniel and Dickinson were both 6-4 in 2004, and that was good enough to share the Centennial crown.

So BearFan01 ... just keep in mind you'd be a lot better received on this board if you were more kosher.  I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate a Terror fan saying;

"Well, Ursinus hadn't had a winning season in four years until 2006." or "The Bears had lost nine-straight to the Terror prior to last season's win."

Why would either of those statements help an argument having to do with who should or shouldn't be POTY?

[BearFan01]

sheesh can't escape having to talk about Mcdaniel....and defending oneself if you dare say anything about the place. 

I share the opinion of the coaches of the conference, that drew wasn't the poy.  When there are angry rants sent to AD's, Coaches, SID's, and then posts everywhere about the terrible injustice done, I figured I would speak up as another voice.  People have been carrying on since the results were announced.  That was pre-thanksgiving.  It is basically march..... I, like everyone else, would like to move on; especially on verge of spring practice.  The kid had a great career... let it be.  You guys think him and ringgold got screwed...... well many people don't.  Both are long over with.  You guys want to carry on about it...fine.  Some of us would like to hear about actual news in the conference, not history.   

As for me contradicting myself or not..... I do not like the accuracy of Mcdaniel tackle stats.  That does not mean I have a gripe with Mcdaniel.  I would have to have a lot more interest in Mcdaniel to have such a strong opinion or even contradict myself.  I obviously am trying to get talk going about the other teams in the conference. 

My arguing about the POY.... I am again stating why people might not share your view point, an obviously popular one outside of Western Maryland.  I am far more interested in who Mcdaniel is recruiting then talking about POY from last season. 

As for my thinking the Mcdaniel reign being over...... that team dominated this conference for years.  Fact.  Now they do not. Fact.  They were dead last in almost all offenseive cats.  Fact.  They were nearly last in most team defensive cats.  Fact.  They lose their best player on the team and on defense. Fact.  They couldn't run the ball last season. Fact.  They had trouble protecting the qb. Fact.  They graduate some of the offesnive lineman who couldn't protect that qb. Fact. 

This would seem to me that they can't be seen  as a top team comming back next season.  Now could they contend next year...... duh.... that is why you play the game to quote herm edwards.  Needless to say though it is a safe bet they will not top the pre-season conference poll.  This is not being a hater or me "getting too excited" this is me looking at the facts.  It would seem they have some work to do.  Can they do it, sure.  Are the odds in their favor,  no. Terrorizer says they are doing well recruiting... that is a good start (and actual news, not ancient history).  I think we all know it is not easy to win a conference with freshman though.   

As far as being recieved..... I don't want to talk about POY or Mcdaniel really, so I won't be well receieved.... I still just would like to hear about hopkins and dickinson..... and about non mcdaniel teams and what they are looking at going into spring practice..... As for the bears not being very good in the past..... well it is just that, the past.  Could i point to the late 90's when they were right there with Mcdaniel....sure, but what good is that? They had a very good season last year and return most of their players.  That seems to be a reason to forget the past and look at the future in collegeville, and that is worth getting excited about.     

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

I do not like the accuracy of Mcdaniel tackle stats.

What does that even mean?!?  Haha.

Terrorizer24 gave a great example of Ringgold having 24 tackles AT Dickinson.

[Terrorizer24]

I'll support it a little further....

in 2005- Ringgold had 136 total stops,

At home - 49  - 9.8 per game
On the road- 87 - 17.4 per game

Bearfan's theory is CRAZY! 

in 2006 - Abbamonte had 125 total stops,

At home - 76   (6 games)      12.6 per game
On the road- 49   (4 games)  12.25 per game

Looks to be consistant.  So Bearfan, the CC and McDaniel's stats are consistant.  No Juicing there. 

Thank you Matt for your support, and being a Bridgewater fan, you can remember the impact that both Ringgold and Abbamonte brought to the table each game.  Being from outside the conference it is nice to hear an unbiased opinion.

[pizzashop]

Normally, I would stay out of this sort of thing.....

"Again, it is a known fact that Mcdaniel juices their tackle stats."

But as the person responsible for McDaniel's stats at the time in question, I think I'll chime in. Your known fact is based on a demonstrably false premise.

That statement is patently absurd, and falls apart entirely with the facts. Convert assisted tackles into half tackles, and add them to the solo tackles, and you have the actual number of stops doled out by the game's statistician. Subtract that number from the number of total defensive plays, and you will have the number of plays that ended w/o a tackle – via slip, out-of-bounds on own accord, knee touched on reception, etc.

Because you have called my integrity into question, I went ahead and did that math for you. As it turns out, McDaniel is right in the middle of the pack in 2004 and 2005 (my final years as the Sports Information Director at McDaniel) in terms of plays ending with credited stops. Would you care to guess which institution had the least number of plays ending by means other than a tackle in each of those two years? Reminds of the ole ball coach saying about pointing a finger and the three that are pointing right back at you.

Further, Ron Ringgold actually benefited from playing on the road in terms of assisted and total tackles. In six road games in 2005 (the home team is responsible for stats) he earned 2.33 more assisted tackles per game than he did at home. In 2004, he earned 1.75 less assisted tackles per game at Bair Stadium than he did on the road.

I will assume that you are a coach, since you are watching film with a play-by-play. As a coach, I am certain that you are aware that the Conference allows for coaches (with the benefit of a tight shot from the endzone and press box, and a wide shot from the pressbox, as well as a clicker in both directions) the opportunity to make changes to stats through SIDs, particularly in the area in question. I would also say that of the nine home games at McDaniel over my final two years, five were spotted by the visiting SID. I can think of only two that I spotted on the road.

2005      6 Road Games, 4 Home Games
Team      Solo   AST   TOT   1/2          Plays   W/OT
Dickinson   391   345   736   563.5   684           121
F&M             397   424   821   609          740           131
Gettysburg   460   296   729   608          773           165
JHU             346   442   788   567          719           152
McDaniel          450   352   802   626          760           134
M'berg      377   290   667   522           664   142
Ursinus          429   363   792   610.5   720          110
                                                                       AVG. - 136.42

2004   5 Road Games, 5 Home Games
Team      Solo   AST   TOT   ½   Plays   W/O T
Dickinson   352   336   688   520   664           144
F&M             419   454   873   646   812           166
Gettysburg   479   266   745   612   750            138
JHU             407   462   869   638   768            130
McD             369   280   649   509   640            131
M'Berg          361   314   675   518   670             152
Ursinus          431   310   741   586   700             114
                           AVG. 139.5
Ringgold
2005      GP   Solo   AST   TOT   Solo Avg          Ast Avg   
Home      4   29   20   49   7.25      5.0
Road      6   43   44   87   7.16      7.33

2004      GP   Solo   AST   TOT   Solo Avg          Ast Avg
Home      5   22   13   35   4.4             3.25
Away      5   18   25   43   3.6              5.0

[Terrorizer24]

I'm with you pizzashop.  McDaniel stats are legit in ALL sports!!!!!

[BearFan01]

I remember why i stopped posting on here back a few years ago..... and here it is right in front of me.  Ever wonder why this board is dead.... quite obvious why.   

Secondly, not a coach, though I had a helmet on my head back in the day.  I do have friends in the bussiness and throughout the conference. 

My opinion is my own, and it is one shared by many people whom you used to compete against while working for Mcdaniel.   

As for yourself, I hope your not still an SID, seems rather unprofessional for an SID to be posting on a message board.  I also hope you can explain to Mcdaniel fans who bombarded all the Ad, SID, and coaches of the conference that POY voting is only done by head coaches, not the Ad's or SID's.  No need to send a bunch of letters, faxes, and emails (often with beautiful colorfull language to emphasis their points I have heard) to people who have no involvement in the process.   

As for my criticism, it is part of athletics, whether you like it or not.  I didn't get a chance to "defend" my integrity as Mcdaniel fans said my mother (who was in attentance) was a whore, or that I suck "explative", or get to reply to the beer as it was flung on me.  Maybe someday you Mcdaniel guys can tell me about all the integrity you so desperately defend. 

Look foward to comming down to Western Maryland or whatever the name of that place is now this week and watching you guys class it per ussual when the bears come to town.  Hopefully this year, you guys can score a point.  Have fun with your crying session here, keep ruining the board. 

[mandfense]

Go Hop!!!!!!!

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

I remember why i stopped posting on here back a few years ago..... and here it is right in front of me.  Ever wonder why this board is dead.... quite obvious why.

Ahh yes ... the scary, know-it-all McDaniel fans run everyone off.  Are you really a college graduate?  That statement seems kind of middle school-ish.

Admit it (well, I guess you won't know since you "left") ... the reason you're backtracking is because you realize how absurd your claim is.  It went from what seemed to be a well thought out argument why one person should have won the POTY award over another, to a ridiculous claim that you have YET to backup.

You know very well why this board is "dead."  Football is the second, third, or fourth sport at all the Centennial schools.  I've attended quite a few CC games over the years and the attendance for them is pretty poor.  Therefore it makes sense that few fans would be on here talking about their respective team.

My opinion is my own, and it is one shared by many people whom you used to compete against while working for Mcdaniel.

Good, I'm glad there are others you know who have erroneous opinions of the stat-keeping at McDaniel.  You can now pass along all to them how silly their views were.

As for yourself, I hope your not still an SID, seems rather unprofessional for an SID to be posting on a message board.

Wow ... you really find it OK to call out the credibility of a Sports Information office out in a public forum (as you hide your identity), and then call someone out (again) for simply setting the record straight?!

As for my criticism, it is part of athletics, whether you like it or not.  I didn't get a chance to "defend" my integrity as Mcdaniel fans said my mother (who was in attentance) was a whore, or that I suck "explative", or get to reply to the beer as it was flung on me.  Maybe someday you Mcdaniel guys can tell me about all the integrity you so desperately defend.

I'm sorry those things happened you and your mother.  Unfortunately, that stuff happens on a lot of college campuses across the country, and something should definitely be done about it.  When I was at a DI-AA game this past year (at James Madison Univ.), I was witness to a gentleman being throw out for yelling inappropriate things.  I don't see why that can't be done in Division III stadiums.  I just don't want you thinking it's a "McDaniel thing."  I'll admit - the students at Bridgewater get out of hand too.  I'm certainly not proud of that fact.

Look foward to comming down to Western Maryland or whatever the name of that place is now this week and watching you guys class it per ussual when the bears come to town.  Hopefully this year, you guys can score a point.  Have fun with your crying session here, keep ruining the board.

Well, with that kind of "send off," you certainly won't garner any "oh BearFan01, please come back ... we're so sorry we hurt your feelings."  But I will say that it was nice having a voice from Ursinus.  It's never a good thing for a discussion forum when there's once voice that dominates.  I'd suggest you simply read the board this offseason and then come back under a different email and name once the 2007 season nears.  Your insight was welcomed until the poor McDaniel stat-keeping claim.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

Go Hop!!!!!!!

Haha.

Thanks mandfense.  Very refreshing.

Any fun news from Baltimore?

[Terrorizer24]

I've attended quite a few CC games over the years and the attendance for them is pretty poor. 

Perhaps the only school with solid attendance is McDaniel, however most of those fans spend the entire game tail-gating and watching.  A great atmosphere for a College Student, and for football in general, not the best venue for a 12th man.  But a fun place to watch a game.

Let's try to post about topics that can be supported and actually make sense, not like BEARFAN, but i'm pretty sure he has moon-walked his way back to Collegeville PA