FB: Middle Atlantic Conference

[Pat Coleman]

Just seems a little strange that knoblauch sets an incredible yardage marker and third team?

Not at all. It's the 2005 All-American team, not the 2002-05 All-American team.

[PBR...]

again did elliott pad his stats by playing whole games after his games where blowouts? I have no idea just curious....btw what gives if I just posted what you did my karma would be -50!!! From pat's view "it's good to be the king..."  LOL!!

[Pat Coleman]

Well, let's see, I've made 100 times as many posts as you have, basically, so there's a lot of me out there for people to vote on.

Elliott's backup not only played, he recorded passing stats in eight of Linfield's 11 games. I'm not going to go through each and every box score to disprove your allegation (since you can check that yourself), but he played one series in the fourth quarter of two of their biggest blowouts, and played one series in the THIRD quarter of their biggest blowout.

[PBR...]

ahh...good stuff i knew you would have the figures at your disposal...fyi i am not alleging anything only asking out of curiosity since some voters for awards (no i am not saying you) dont do their research and vote solely based upon numbers...

[butkus20]

Im a former Susquehanna player from the old days. The alumni are being fed a lot of BS about why SU changed leagues. I am just wondering, from the people still involved in it... what gives? Why can't SU compete anymore and is it me or does it seem they just sold out and left because they can't win.. even with the best facilities I've ever seen for d3.. please help .

[Lyco80]

Butkus,

How far back do you go?  Simba, another Lyco poster, and I were contemporaries in the late 1970s.

Now to your question.  This was a big topic of discussion on here earlier in the season and you may want to go back to sometime in October to refresh yourself on the chatter.

However, my read, and it is only mine, is that Susquehanna is attempting to re-define itself in many ways.  In other words, it is more about marketing than academics or athletics.  It appears they are attempting to re-align themselves with schools they feel elevate them from their current status. 

As a member of the Lycoming Alumni Board I have learned that higher academia is a rather significant economic enterprise - to wit, a business.  There are substantial demographic pressures facing many Northeast D-3 schools with a decreasing population of eligible prospective students for many, many, small, private, liberal arts colleges. 

I think it has more to do with U.S. News and World Reports college ranking than how the Crusaders finish in the MAC football league.

Just my thoughts.

All The Best

[butkus20]

Lyco80-

That certainly sounds like alot of the information that the alumni are getting out of the school.

As an alumni, I am gritting my teeth and bearing it b/c from your spin, it sounds like it should do the university well in the long run.

As a football player, it is a bit harder to swallow. To answer your question, I graduated in 1992. When we left there, SU was on strong ground. We had come off of 2 championships in 3 years (including a regional title) and finished the 91 season (my senior) #3 in the country. To see that school get all of these unbelievable facilities put in... and get smoked every weekend.. just doesn't sit well w/ alot of the alumni...

What kid is going to attend SU now that they play half there games 8 hours away?.. Alot of parents are very supportive, but that is really stretching it.  Recruiting should prove to be a nightmare i would imagine.  Add that to a very hefty budget increase, and I am very concerned SU will go the way of some other D3 schools and wind up just dropping football altogether. That would be a shame with the proud tradition that SU has.. Amos Alonzo Stagg once coached there for goodness sake!

Well, anyway, I really appreciate the insightful response. It has actually helped me understand the situation a little better and I guess I have no further recourse but to idly sit by and watch Union and Hobart smack us in the mouth now..... but at least we'll be with 'like' schools.... and we'll improve our rating in  U.S. News and World Reports by like 3 spots. If I sound angry and bitter..... it's mostly because I am..

[skunks_sidekick]

Lyco80 - as a non-visitor to the Middle Atlantic Conference page on even a sporadic basis, my posting here should indicate how slow things are on Post Patterns during the holidays. 

Some, if not all of your points have been addressed by Pat, and other posters, but I feel the need to respond with a few tidbits of my own.

When Mount started winning championships, there were many that pointed to the "D-I transfers" as one of the reasons the program was so successful.  If you spent the time to evaluate the makeup of any Mount roster, the former D-I players were never a significant impact (defined by 3 or more players, in skilled positions) on any given team.  The one poster on here went to the tried and tired "Larry Kinnard" card, which was bandied about on this board two years ago to the point of idiocy.  He was a HOMETOWN kid, that due to a high school counselor's bad advice ended up lacking one core course needed to be elgible to play at OSU.  He never played, or suited up for the Buckeyes.  At the time this came to light (late August), his father had become very ill.  Kinnard decided to come home and play for Mount rather than ride it out at OSU. 

The interesting thing about this years team is that there were no D-I transfers on the starting 22.  I would go so far to say I don't believe there are any on the whole roster.  Mount's significant transfer from another D-III school is Garcon of course.  If you read the story, you know the particulars behind that move.  I can tell you without a doubt that Larry Kehres didn't know Garcon from Adam.  Never heard of him, didn't recruit him. 

Here is a typical recruiting story of a kid at Mount.  Kmic was an all everything small Ohio high school performer in Northwest Ohio.  The ONLY D-I school that gave him any notice was Bowling Green (just up the road twenty minutes), who wanted him to walk on.  Kmic made the choice to go to Mount knowing the following.  A.) He may not see significant playing time until his junior year.  B.)  He could easily go to another D-III school and start immediately.  Coach Kehres tells all those kids that if playing as a freshman is their priority, then Mount isn't the school for them.  Kmic has talked openly about how all the other D-III schools kept on him about choosing Mount when he would not get playing time.  His answer (and many of the quality kids that Mount gets answer) was "I know I will sit, but I want to go where the best plays, and wins".  Coach Kehres has indicated that once a kid makes that decision, LK knows he has a player. 

Mount Union has been in the OAC for a very long time.  The have a storied tradition as a D-III school.  They have sports teams competing in all sports, male and female.  It makes no sense for the school as whole to move up in any manner.  As important as football is at Mount Union, it's still not the only thing being considered when decisions are made for the college.

Just a Mount fans two cents.     Happy New Year to All!

[Warren Thompson]

I'm still puzzled by this. One would think the Centennial Conference a better fit for the institution.  Or did they apply and were rejected for membership?

[bill]

warren
I think you hit the nail on the head with your last statement....

[Warren Thompson]

The MAC Web-site currently carries no announcement of the defections. Could it be that's because additional leave-takings might be in the works?

[Warren Thompson]

... I am gritting my teeth and bearing it b/c from your spin, it sounds like it should do the university well in the long run.

Just out of curiosity, how might the move to the Liberty (in football) and the "Interstate Eight" (for basketball) "do the university well in the long run"? I'm still mightily puzzled by the Susquehanna defection.

[butkus20]

Warren-

The comment you are referring to was made in response to Lyco80's explanation about why SU might make a move. The reference of the statement is academically based ..certainly NOT athletically. As I stated earlier, the decision, in my opinion, puts the football program in very grave danger. The recruiting problems associated with playing that schedule and the budget increases just dont add up. I am still very confused by the administrations decision and that is why i came here, I thought people that are closer to the situation would have some insight. As of now, I just see a program that has de-emphasized the football program in lieu of trying to align itself with a higher class of academic institutions.   And Lyco80 - in response to your question.. Susquehanna apparently applied for membership to the Centenial Conference and were turned down.  Apparently, the discussions with the centenial began as early as last year, where SU was told they would be welcomed... when it came to it, the CC took Juniata and moravian instead... I can't believe that SU wouldnt be @ the top of that list, but that is a discussion for another day i guess.

[Lyco80]

Lyco80-

That certainly sounds like alot of the information that the alumni are getting out of the school.

As an alumni, I am gritting my teeth and bearing it b/c from your spin, it sounds like it should do the university well in the long run.

What kid is going to attend SU now that they play half there games 8 hours away?.. Alot of parents are very supportive, but that is really stretching it.  Recruiting should prove to be a nightmare i would imagine.  Add that to a very hefty budget increase, and I am very concerned SU will go the way of some other D3 schools and wind up just dropping football altogether. That would be a shame with the proud tradition that SU has.. Amos Alonzo Stagg once coached there for goodness sake!

Well, anyway, I really appreciate the insightful response. It has actually helped me understand the situation a little better and I guess I have no further recourse but to idly sit by and watch Union and Hobart smack us in the mouth now..... but at least we'll be with 'like' schools.... and we'll improve our rating in  U.S. News and World Reports by like 3 spots. If I sound angry and bitter..... it's mostly because I am..

The President of Lycoming College, Dr. James Douthat, is very candid with the alumni board about the challenges facing small, Mid-Atlantic, liberal arts colleges in the near and distant future.  I think Susquehanna is charting their course based upon these factors and not necessarily athletics.  And I prefer if you not refer to my opinions as spin - since you solicited them and I am not in favor of the Crusaders desertion anywhere since I like to keep my adversaries right down the road in Selinsgrove where they belong.

ATB

[Lyco80]

Lyco80 - as a non-visitor to the Middle Atlantic Conference page on even a sporadic basis, my posting here should indicate how slow things are on Post Patterns during the holidays. 

Some, if not all of your points have been addressed by Pat, and other posters, but I feel the need to respond with a few tidbits of my own.

When Mount started winning championships, there were many that pointed to the "D-I transfers" as one of the reasons the program was so successful.  If you spent the time to evaluate the makeup of any Mount roster, the former D-I players were never a significant impact (defined by 3 or more players, in skilled positions) on any given team.  The one poster on here went to the tried and tired "Larry Kinnard" card, which was bandied about on this board two years ago to the point of idiocy.  He was a HOMETOWN kid, that due to a high school counselor's bad advice ended up lacking one core course needed to be elgible to play at OSU.  He never played, or suited up for the Buckeyes.  At the time this came to light (late August), his father had become very ill.  Kinnard decided to come home and play for Mount rather than ride it out at OSU. 

The interesting thing about this years team is that there were no D-I transfers on the starting 22.  I would go so far to say I don't believe there are any on the whole roster.  Mount's significant transfer from another D-III school is Garcon of course.  If you read the story, you know the particulars behind that move.  I can tell you without a doubt that Larry Kehres didn't know Garcon from Adam.  Never heard of him, didn't recruit him. 

Here is a typical recruiting story of a kid at Mount.  Kmic was an all everything small Ohio high school performer in Northwest Ohio.  The ONLY D-I school that gave him any notice was Bowling Green (just up the road twenty minutes), who wanted him to walk on.  Kmic made the choice to go to Mount knowing the following.  A.) He may not see significant playing time until his junior year.  B.)  He could easily go to another D-III school and start immediately.  Coach Kehres tells all those kids that if playing as a freshman is their priority, then Mount isn't the school for them.  Kmic has talked openly about how all the other D-III schools kept on him about choosing Mount when he would not get playing time.  His answer (and many of the quality kids that Mount gets answer) was "I know I will sit, but I want to go where the best plays, and wins".  Coach Kehres has indicated that once a kid makes that decision, LK knows he has a player. 

Mount Union has been in the OAC for a very long time.  The have a storied tradition as a D-III school.  They have sports teams competing in all sports, male and female.  It makes no sense for the school as whole to move up in any manner.  As important as football is at Mount Union, it's still not the only thing being considered when decisions are made for the college.

Just a Mount fans two cents.     Happy New Year to All!

Great post and thanks for the information.

However, no one, not even the guru, has responded to my query regarding the potential dearth of D2 football teams in Ohio thereby contributing to a windfall of talent going to MUC.  And Garcon's mention only underscores the national lure the Purple Raiders enjoy:  despite not being the current national champion the player transferred from Vermont to Ohio - from Florida (since Oregon may have been too far)!  Additionally, what would be so criminal for MUC, the class of D3, the creme de le creme, moving up to challenge other competition?  In the East Region Rowan and others challenge higher up schools often with good success proving their talent is equivalent to many schools at higher levels.  Why would MUC not want to prove their moxey against bigger programs?  Furthermore, why can't we even talk about this subject without folks getting so defensive? 

Clearly MUC is not your normal D3 football school, their storied successes are self-evident.  All I am asking is what will it take for a program that bowls over its league and then runs through the playoffs with a 62% success rate (8 out of 13) to even consider moving to D2?  And, for other D3 posters to realize how reasonable a suggestion this is to make?

All The Best