FB: Middle Atlantic Conference

[Pat Coleman]

About the article -
I've posted many times about this here, but we'll soon see which schools put their money where their mouth is academically...

In what sense?

[PBR...]

hey warren, you guys(LVC) couldnt hold on a little bit longer and help the dvc crew out this weekend...       btw well done to lvc seriously to play wilkes that tough....i know its stinks losing another close game but hopefully this is a sign that lvc is turning the corner

[john merrick]

I know for a fact that several MAC schools have football players enrolled that couldn't get into the rest.  BUT, I don't necessarily consider that a negative.  I think schools should accept marginal students, as long as it is done across the board.  Let some marginal students in, once they are in school it is up to them to get the grades.  These are the type of kids that need a chance.
DV specifically has been accused of letting in players who wouldn't be able to make it into other MAC schools.  DV has had very good teams the last few years, but if you look at a lot of their scores you'll notice that they aren't blowing teams out.  In fact, they are winning many of their games in the last minutes.  So if they are letting in suspect student-athletes, it really isn't putting them that far ahead of the other schools.
Finally, every football program would lower admissions criteria if their administration would let them.  They only whine about it because they can't.

[bill]

Pat

I know I was a bit vague back there, but let's just say I'm not at liberty to divulge anything more...

[kate]

One wonders if Mr. Housenick will be in Doylestown for the DVC-Susquehanna game on Saturday?  Several weeks ago on the nightly news, the station did a profile on Shenandoha University - stating that they were always a good little liberal arts school majoring in music, but the student body was diminishing - costs, admission criterea, etc., so they lowered their requirements, took in many more students, made sure they carried at least a "C"  average, and asked that they assimilate themselves into the student body.  They met all requirements, and two years ago the Aggies met them in a post season game.  Nothing sinister, no wrongs, just ALL good!  Many of them were thrilled to not only be in college, but playing football & an instrument!  Sorry for the spelling errors, and i just hope that others saw the same news cast.  i'm certainly not saying that this is what Del Val is doing cause i do not know - all i know for certain is that the atmosphere at DVC is GREAT!

[PBR...]

kate that would mean he would have to come down out of his white castle....i am not sure the w(h)ine and cheese served in the doylestown area is up to his standards....he would have to come and be seen with the people on the "other" side of the tracks and not up to susquehanna qualifications.

[FearTheRam]

My guess is he's alluding to the rumor that the MAC will be requring a set GPA for student athletes to be eligible to play. Once again to JM, you don't know anything for "a fact" without some sort of proof. I doubt that you are privy to such personal information on students.

And once again, may I remind the posters that just like last year, this has nothing to do with football so let's get back on the right subject!

Go Aggies!

[Warren Thompson]

[M]ay I remind the posters that ... this has nothing to do with football, so let's get back on the right subject.

If -- repeat, if -- the MAC institutes a "set GPA for athletes to be eligible to play," it certainly will have something to do with football and all other MAC sports. How could it not?

[Dynasty07]

there are eligibility requirements set in by nc2a, i feel as if posters are questioning admissions rather then performance while at college. there are going to be differences between admission requirements from all schools, it's the nature of the beast. and as said by other posters, i do not feel there is a problem with people coming in to win a championship and leaving within a year or two. most schools have kids and keep them (dvc included), honestly, i think it is a cop-out, sorry. the difference, i am assuming, comes from the colleges administration and their dedication to the athletic programs, the schools who are willing to hand out more grants and academic scholarships attract more players. from what i have seen is a large dedication to football from the dvc community, and success has endured, kudo's to them, i feel that kind of support is what each school needs, dvc is a great model of change.

[Warren Thompson]

there are eligibility requirements set in by nc2a, i feel as if posters are questioning admissions rather then performance while at college. there are going to be differences between admission requirements from all schools, it's the nature of the beast. and as said by other posters, i do not feel there is a problem with people coming in to win a championship and leaving within a year or two. most schools have kids and keep them (dvc included), honestly, i think it is a cop-out, sorry. the difference, i am assuming, comes from the colleges administration and their dedication to the athletic programs, the schools who are willing to hand out more grants and academic scholarships attract more players. from what i have seen is a large dedication to football from the dvc community, and success has endured, kudo's to them, i feel that kind of support is what each school needs, dvc is a great model of change.

I'm not taking sides on this issue. Yet if athletic eligibility is contingent on classroom performance, then does it not hinge on the rigor of an individual faculty member? That is, one faculty member's D or D- or F just might be another's C- or C or C+. Right?

Aren't some professors "easy" graders -- sometimes laughably so -- while others are more stringent and demanding? In my own experience in higher education, I'd say this is the case, and that some institutions countenance this and some clearly do not.

[FearTheRam]

WT that is an "if" right now and is not exactly what the original topic pertained to. The original post was concerning admission standards--which may or may not cooralate to classroom performance. As for GPA/eligibility we can discuss that further if and when it becomes official, right now it's merely a rumor. As for your other point, a good one, it does indeed come down to the grading policies of not only the institution but also individual professors. That however, is a double-edged sword, as while some profs give athletes an easy route, there are just as many who dislike athletes and would prefer to not have them in their class at all and therefor, grade them harder.

So, besides their academics what does Susquhanna bring to the field in the way of football?

[MOJO]

Posters,
Not pointing a finger at any program, but if MAC schools do not show parity across the board in admission standards for athletes, the schools that are less stringent certainly enjoy a big competitive edge in fielding a better athletic product.  The truth is when comparing the value of any MAC school's education, all are pretty much comparable.  Keep in mind that football players are going to make up a very small percentage of the total student body.  Many football players are academically competitive, particularly in the MAC.  I can speak firsthand of this in that my oldest son was a reasonably good QB in the MAC, and is currently in his final year at a nationally recognized law school in the top 15% of his class.  So even if a school lowers it's standards to attract several ball players, it will have a limited to nill impact as far as the academic product it produces.  All MAC schools produce it's share of Dr.'s, Lawyers, and Indian Chiefs!  Yes, there have been instances at some MAC schools where borderline student/athletes were brought in to produce a better athletic product.  My knowledge of this happening was at a school in the MAC, other than DVC.  I like many others suspected this MIGHT have happened at DVC when then went from worst to first in such a short time frame.  BUT I do not know if this did happen.  Suspicions and truth many times differ!  LVC's "SUCCESS" in producing a better product could probably be questioned by some.  It is obvious administration at LVC has taken a different tact than they have historically.  Remember, Coach Monas was there before, and was canned for supposed nonproduction.  The truth is Coach Monas has been and is a super and knowledgeable coach. However if the school will not support the program to at least be competitive with other league schools, you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.  It appears the school has made appropriate changes in additional coaching staff and bringing more kids into the program on a yearly basis.  Historically it had appeared that was an issue at "The Valley".  They always would have a handful of kids that had the skill level to play at any MAC school but not enough of them.  Readers Digest version, you get the players you win, you don't you lose.

[john merrick]

Fear The Ram,
When I ask certain recruiters why they didn't get players that are on other school's rosters and they tell me it's because they couldn't get past admissions, then I think I have pretty reliable info.  And no I'm not going to mention which recruiters and which schools, I wouldn't let them hang out to dry like that.

Now I really don't care if you believe me.  Like I said before, I don't think letting marginal kids in is a problem.  It's not necessarily a bad thing.  Why do we talk about it as if someone is cheating?

[Pat Coleman]

Fear The Ram,
When I ask certain recruiters why they didn't get players that are on other school's rosters and they tell me it's because they couldn't get past admissions, then I think I have pretty reliable info. 

Yeah. Sure. That's reliable?

[john merrick]

Pat,
I'm not trying to prove anything to you.  It's a commonly known fact that some MAC schools don't have the same admissions requirements as others.  Personally I could care less.  Like I've said before, I think marginal students should be given a chance.