FB: Middle Atlantic Conference

[MOJO]

Hey guys,
For everybody that wants to talk about MAC QB's.  What about a kid that is the top ranked passer to date this season, in the MAC.  Stats are 52 completions in 85 attempts for 706 yards, 6 TDS, and 5 INTS.  This young man is also ranked as number 2 in the conference in reference to total yards, 826.  If you have not guessed, it is Dan Kelly for LVC.  Not bad for a kid that happens to be playing on a 1 and 2 team.  If only the Dutchmen could get their defense on the same level as the offense.  The amazing Merlin has told me that it's going to be LVC over WU, 28-21.

[gordonmann]

WUDLine:

I agree with your take in that last post.  Mangus is great and the Coordinator Clements doesn't get enough credit.  He's done a great job since coming over from Widener.  I also agree that a little historical perspective on Del Val's recent success in light of Lycoming and Widener's tradition wouldn't hurt.

[WUDLINE]

 Can Kelly play with the big boys. I don't know? We will find out as the competition gets better.

[gordonmann]

On the whole academic argument (man, I feel like I'm in the NESCAC room), here's some more objective information on where the MAC schools rank academically.

Rather than play the anecdote game where anonymous (and thereby unverifiable) claims denounce or support colleges, I dug around in the 2006 US News & World Report rankings which use a bunch of factors to measure academic strength. 

Since the CC schools were mentioned, I threw the football playing members in as well.  As you'll see, some of these comparisons are tough to make across types of schools...

    >> As a University, JHU is outstanding ranked #13 in the country, in front of Brown and Cal-Berkley.  Very impressive.  The only other school classified as a University is Widener, which is in the third tier.

>> Most of the schools in these two conferences are considered liberal arts colleges.  You'll find most of the Centennial schools in the Top 100 – #39 F&M, #45 Dickinson, #47 Gettysburg, #71 Ursinus and #73 Muhlenberg.  The only MAC school with that distinction is #100 Juniata.

Many MAC schools are in the third tier of Liberal Arts Colleges.  In no particular order, that's where you'll find Albright, Lycoming, Moravian and Susquehanna along with the final CC school McDaniel.

>> Three MAC schools are classified as Northern Colleges.  Keep in mind these schools aren't compared to big universities or liberal arts schools either.  This is where you'll find #24 Leb Val, #33 King's and #68 Wilkes.

  >> Del Val is treated as a Comprehensive College where it is #23.  In other words, it's not compared to the big universities, little liberal arts colleges...or any other MAC or CC schools for that matter.

FDU-Florham campus isn't listed separately, though FDU in general (perhaps just Teaneck) is #62 under Universities-Masters in the North.

You can look this stuff over at: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/tools/brief/cosearch_advanced_brief.php

Now at least you can fight over shared knowledge if you want. 

[bill]

Gordon
Thanks for the objectivity....Maaggie will also note that DVC is listed as "less selective", while FDU (combined, not just Florham, whose stats are better) is "selective".....

I wasn't signaling out DVC, I was talking in generalizations. She (?) is the one who opened this can of worms. Academically, DVC is nowhere near FDU's Florham campus, period. There ARE players at a few MAC schools who received "academic" money that are rejected by our campus.
Maaggie also went as far as to suggest all MAC schools magically get financial aid for qualified athletes. Besides being completely against D3 rules, I can assure her that FDU's Florham campus does not provide ANY financial aid nor admissions aid to athletes.
Once again, I said FDU isn't Harvard. We're also probably not the most selective football conference school either. But FDU is in the top 5....
I'm not the only one who knows this to be true. The MAC may look VERY different in the next few years (in membership) because of, you guessed it, the academics (or lack thereof) of a few schools - but I won't name names

[MOJO]

Be assured, Kelly can play with the big boys.  It's harder to play QB for a marginal team and put up numbers than it is playing for a superior team where your jersey never gets dirty.  Gordon, I appreciate your commentary on academic rankings but keep in mind this is for the student body as a whole.  If certain schools bring in "RINGERS" strictly for their athletic ability, this is only a small percentage of students and will not skew the academic rankings in either direction.  Again, be assured what I expressed in previous posts is accurate information.  I apologize to readers for any mispelled words in this or previous posts, I'm typing in a hurry and I was a biology major in college.   

[Simba]

And now moving from academics to leaders coaching and developing leaders on a peer to peer perspective, here is one reason why Lyco's defense is and will remain on top in the MAC this year....Simba
http://www.sungazette.com/articles.asp?articleID=17984
Oh....and that picture to the left...Mangus has a long way to go before he can even come close to be compared to Lyco's PA HALL OF FAME Head Coach!....

[maAggie5]

MOJO, Since my son was accepted and recruited since his jr year by LVC, I guess my answer would be DVC. FDU also accepted and recruited him along with a couple of IAA schools, but he's at DVC and doing fine both academically and athletically thanks for asking.

It's always a losers metallity to look to justify their situation. If it makes you feel better to think you went to an academically superior school than please don't let me pop your bubble.

[MOJO]

maAggie,
Pursuant to your comments, I don't feel I went to an academically superior school, I am a LYCO grad.  I did not say that DVC is an academically inferior school.  The question I asked about DVC, was based on your incorrect statement that all MAC schools will let anyone in their programs and give them money, if they want them athletically.  Again I ask, is this the path DVC has taken to achieve their "recent" success?  If it is, I feel this was a bad decision, for previously posted reasons.  If the reason for success is that you truly have a dynamic coaching staff, that coach and recruit better than other staffs, congratulations on your teams success.  Also, congratulations to your son.  It sounds like he made a good choice for himself.  The facts I stated in previous posts are not excuses, just reality.  I will not comment concerning your verbage about losers, I would not want to embarass either one of us.  Have a nice day and watchout for LYCO.  GO WARRIORS!

[patcummings]

Please, let's talk football.

Until a large swath of D3 players go to the NFL - football is football, not a business to those who play it.  Academics will always vary between conferences, schools, regions, etc...it's always been that way. 

D3 is about getting your education - and playing some decent football games on the weekends.  Schools of all qualities, academic and athletic, have experienced some levels of success/failure - but they all educated their players as long as the players are dedicated.

So let's avoid the argument of..."my school's academics are better than your's." 

Let's talk football.

That being said - I'd be shocked if Del Val falls to Lyco as some have predicted on the board.  Lyco's offense was HORRIFIC against Widener last week - the Widener offense never tried to stretch the Lyco defense, something you know DVC will do.

I wouldn't be surprised to see DVC just keep flying for the end zone, because overall, the Lyco offense isn't imposing at all.  When these two met last year, there were about 30 mph winds throwing the whole game into a tizzy, so a calmer day could spell disaster for Lyco.

[gordonmann]

If you can't make it to Williamsport tomorrow, you can catch the game on the Internet at: http://www.sportsjuice.com/.

Pregame begins at 1 PM with kickoff at 1:30 PM.

[Lyco80]

New to this format and posting although admittedly a biased Lycoming fan.  Before this post I read all previous msgs, interesting.  I must say that I am curious about the rise of DVC and the demise of Lycoming.  Could it be that Rob Curry is just not getting the recruits for Coach G he once did?  Today's game should be interesting and I am hoping for a Warrior upset but that still will not right the football ship of state in Williamsport.  Perhaps it is time to think about recruiting from somewhere else besides the Philly Catholic league?  Simba, we know each other personally.  All the best.

[patron2]

D3 football is the most unequal playing field in all of collegiate athletics.  While I do not agree with MOJO that any school will get any kid in with any amount of money, MOJO is correct that some schools will dip their standards down to help the football coach. 

If D3 football really wanted to make things more equal, they should make every potential recruit go thru the NCAA clearinghouse the same way NCAA schools higher up the ladder do. 

Personally, I think the population base in this part of the country is so large that you can find enough kids with a 1300 SAT and a 3.5 gpa to fill a roster.  If the coaches at these more academic schools spent more time recruiting and coaching then whining about the kids DVC can recruit, they might be more successful.

[MOJO]

Patron 2,
It was not I that made the statement, any school will admit any student and give them money, if they want them athletically.  Check with maAggie concerning that philosophy.  I commented on her statement.  Go Warriors and Go Dutchman!

[THE BRAIN]

albright is gonna throw all over kings while the monarchs will provide very little offense with the new look stingy lion D

albright 28
kings 6