FB: Middle Atlantic Conference

[Doid23]

Rooting for an Albright upset, but would settle for them playing MUC tough, and making a game of it

[dlippiel]

Congrats again to Albright on a fine season. Players should hold their head up high. dlip guesses if you are gonna go out against anyone why not have it be the best team in all the ****in D3 world!

[seadog2]

Hats off to the Lions, they played a great game and just came up short. I expect we will be seeing you again in the not too distant future. I didn't see any quit in any of the guys on the field, from start to finish. They stayed with it, even when it had to be a little painful. Looks like you have some real talent to build with and next season could be very interesting. The fans you brought were very supportive of the team and deserve applause, unlike some of the children we have on that side. Best of luck to you and have a "Merry Christmas", or whatever you might celebrate. Safe travel to all.

[D O.C.]

Good run Albright.

That's how you do it.

Maybe some year the NCAA will send Mount Union West.   8)

[Lyco80]

Wow - no props on my score prediction.

And - the D-II pickings seem pretty slim in Ohio so I guess it is go big-time or go to Alliance.

I am well-versed in the rest of the OAC but if you are going to choose a D-III program in Ohio it would seem to make sense to choose the monsters from MUC.

I do not see them losing in the playoffs - so it appears it is time to hoist another banner with the walnut trophy.

On another note - Simba - great to see a post from you - I thought you might have gone into winter hibernation with the Warriors dismal showing this year.

To all posters everywhere - Merry Christmas - that is what we say in our family - no offense to anyone else - but when we say that we mean good cheer and best wishes to accompany the birth of Jesus and mean no disrespect if you keep anything else or nothing at all.

ATB

[Toph]

It is hard to fathom how a small Methodist-related school in farm country Ohio continues to overwhelm the competition, locally and nationally, year after year.

Could it be there is no real D-II equivalent schools to compete for the talent pool in that area of the country so it is either sit the bench on a Big Ten program or play in Alliance?

There are LOTS of other Colleges with Football Programs in Ohio who are competing for the local talent:

DI-FBS
1.  Ohio State University
2.  Akron
3.  Bowling Green
4.  Kent State
5.  Miami
6.  Ohio U.
7.  Toledo
8.  Cincinnatti

DI-FCS
9.  Dayton
10.  Youngstown State

DII
11.  Ashland
12.  Findlay
13.  Tiffin
14.  Central State U.


DIII
15.  Baldwin Wallace
16.  Bluffton
17.  Capital
18.  Case Westeren
19.  Defiance
20.  Dennison
21.  Heidelberg
22.  Hiram
23.  John Carroll
24.  Kenyon
25.  Marietta
26.  Mt. St. Joseph
27.  Mount Union
28.  Muskingham
29.  Oberlin
30.  Ohio Northern
31.  Ohio Wesleyan
32.  Otterbein
33.  Wilmington
34.  Wittenberg
35.  Wooster

NAIA
36.  Ohio Domincan
37.  Malone
38.  Walsh

A couple omissions on this already sizable list.  DII- Lake Erie College, NAIA- Notre Dame College.

[bill]

The list above is great, it shows there is great competition in the PRIVATE college world in Ohio. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I see any D3 state schools on that list. ...

In a state like NJ, there is one private school in d3 playing football, but there's Rowan, Montcair, Kean, etc. all playing D3. They also cost about half of what the private school does...

I'm trying to say that if there was a competitive d3 state school in ohio, it might  be a little more difficult for MUC. Of course, once you start winning like MUC has, everyone wants to come on board!

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

The list above is great, it shows there is great competition in the PRIVATE college world in Ohio. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I see any D3 state schools on that list. ...

In a state like NJ, there is one private school in d3 playing football, but there's Rowan, Montcair, Kean, etc. all playing D3. They also cost about half of what the private school does...

I'm trying to say that if there was a competitive d3 state school in ohio, it might  be a little more difficult for MUC. Of course, once you start winning like MUC has, everyone wants to come on board!

Some may say Kent St. and Akron are D3.     There are enough Big 10 and MAC State Schools that sponsor FB so I doubt that the State would start a D3 State School.  Also, some of the Universities have "Local Campuses" where undergrads complete their general classes, prior to going to the Main Campus.  This is probably why no State D3 schools.

This compared to a state like WI which don't have many (if any) private D3 or public D2 to compete with.

But both UWW and MUC have been able to rise above the rest.

[Toph]

The list above is great, it shows there is great competition in the PRIVATE college world in Ohio. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I see any D3 state schools on that list. ...

In a state like NJ, there is one private school in d3 playing football, but there's Rowan, Montcair, Kean, etc. all playing D3. They also cost about half of what the private school does...

I'm trying to say that if there was a competitive d3 state school in ohio, it might  be a little more difficult for MUC. Of course, once you start winning like MUC has, everyone wants to come on board!

I don't know that I completely buy your argument.

There are plenty of competitive private D3 colleges and universities in Ohio.  I'd wager that both Ohio Northern and Capital would've outperformed every single team that represented the East region over the last few weeks.  JCU had a run at MUC (and through the East one year) in the late 90s and early 2000s, both Capital and ONU have been tough recently (Capital only lost by 7 this year, FYI).  I don't think it's a lack of competition that allows MUC to do what they do.  Larry Kehres is a great recruiter, and more importantly Larry Kehres is a great coach.

[bill]

Toph -

Please, in no way do I mean that there aren't other competitive private schools in Ohio. My point is about the state school option. Let's pretend - for a minute - that UW Whitewater was 50 miles down the road from MUC.  If UWW costs 15K (I'm making these numbers up for argument's sake), and MUC costs 40K a year, it would become tougher for MUC to get the best talent - the pool would become diluted.
As I'm sure it is in most areas, cost is a HUGE factor when recruiting kids. When facilities and perceived academic standings are about equal, the state school is a tough option to overlook for a family.

Coach Kehres IS a great coach. I've had the pleasure of meeting him on numerous occasions. MUC does a great job, period.

[section13raiderfan]

Interestingly enough, MUC is about half an hours drive from both Kent State and Akron U. Both are D1 and offer scholarships. Neither draws the top level athletes from the area. MUC draws from NE Ohio primarily, but also NY, PA, WVA, IND, as well as FLA. Winning breeds interest from all corners. It doesnt matter what the tuition is as much as you may think. Kids still want to play for a winner. If you are not an athlete then the state schools cost is definately a bigger consideration. Both KSU and Akron have programs that are tops in their respective fields, but the football programs leave a little to be desired.

OH, LK was offered the job at KSU once. Thank God he passed on it.

[bill]

Section13

It doesnt matter what the tuition is as much as you may think...If you are not an athlete then the state schools cost is definately a bigger consideration.

Respectfully, I have to disagree with the above statement. In my 15+ years in D3/1-aa athletics, cost has been a primary factor in college choices. Many students and families will pick less loans over big debt time and time again. I have seen countless college decisions made based off of which school gave the best aid package.  I have seen tons of athletes pick state schools over private ones - even if the state school's academic reputation was lower than the private school.
Yes, kids want to play for a winner. Once again, my point remains that MUC would - theoretically - have a more difficult time recruiting if Kent State and Akron were highly competitive D3 schools, at half the price of MUC.

[G-manWU]

Section13

It doesnt matter what the tuition is as much as you may think...If you are not an athlete then the state schools cost is definately a bigger consideration.

Respectfully, I have to disagree with the above statement. In my 15+ years in D3/1-aa athletics, cost has been a primary factor in college choices. Many students and families will pick less loans over big debt time and time again. I have seen countless college decisions made based off of which school gave the best aid package.  I have seen tons of athletes pick state schools over private ones - even if the state school's academic reputation was lower than the private school.
Yes, kids want to play for a winner. Once again, my point remains that MUC would - theoretically - have a more difficult time recruiting if Kent State and Akron were highly competitive D3 schools, at half the price of MUC.

I do agree with you Bill. In my years of working with Wilkes football, many people asked me if King's, along with perhaps Lycoming, were our biggest recruting opponents for local talent. My reply has always bene no- without a doubt, the D2 PA state schools are our biggest obstacle. Coach Shep and Company do a fantastic job with local talent- the 2003 and 2004 recruting classes contained many outstanding players from the Lackawanna and Wyoming Valley Conferences. But it is also safe to say that if a few of those PSAC schools weren't in the football picture, then Wilkes, King's and the rest of the MAC would have a few more talented players on their rosters.

I hope all else is well in Madison-I shall try and give you a yell if I can get out to your campus when Wilkes is in town for basketball. Cheers

[Knightstalker]

Section13

It doesnt matter what the tuition is as much as you may think...If you are not an athlete then the state schools cost is definately a bigger consideration.

Respectfully, I have to disagree with the above statement. In my 15+ years in D3/1-aa athletics, cost has been a primary factor in college choices. Many students and families will pick less loans over big debt time and time again. I have seen countless college decisions made based off of which school gave the best aid package.  I have seen tons of athletes pick state schools over private ones - even if the state school's academic reputation was lower than the private school.
Yes, kids want to play for a winner. Once again, my point remains that MUC would - theoretically - have a more difficult time recruiting if Kent State and Akron were highly competitive D3 schools, at half the price of MUC.

I do agree with you Bill. In my years of working with Wilkes football, many people asked me if King's, along with perhaps Lycoming, were our biggest recruting opponents for local talent. My reply has always bene no- without a doubt, the D2 PA state schools are our biggest obstacle. Coach Shep and Company do a fantastic job with local talent- the 2003 and 2004 recruting classes contained many outstanding players from the Lackawanna and Wyoming Valley Conferences. But it is also safe to say that if a few of those PSAC schools weren't in the football picture, then Wilkes, King's and the rest of the MAC would have a few more talented players on their rosters.

I hope all else is well in Madison-I shall try and give you a yell if I can get out to your campus when Wilkes is in town for basketball. Cheers

The PSAC schools also recruit western NJ pretty hard too.  D3 also has to compete with Lafayette and Lehigh recruiting a lot of the same players and offering outstanding aid in the region.

[seventiesraider]

Mount's biggest local competition are the two NAIA schools in Canton: Walsh and Malone. Mount is recruiting all over the country but really hard in Florida. As a recently retired hs coach I can tell you the sales pitch from all the other OAC and NCAC  schools is "Don't wait till your a junior to play." (Skillfully skipping over, come in no better than second every year) It is an interesting self elimination process where kids that don't have confidence in their abilities or are looking for the easy softer way, pick other schools. From my experience, kids with that mentality never see a varsity snap at the other schools either.