FB: Middle Atlantic Conference

[kate]

Holy smokes, Pat - it would be nice to encourage posters on this site.  Yes, i know you're the head honcho, & everyone is sincerely grateful for this place where we can share our pride and love for our teams, but whoa!  Del Val was in the cellar not that long ago and i still remember a horrible newspaper article by the then Aggie coach bemoaning how hard it was to recruit.  Then there was Mangus who showed the world what a positive attitude can do, followed by Clements who is carrying on brilliantly!  We remember !   So, this is the best time in Aggie sports history - hope all prognosticators keep saying that the Aggies will likely go down, and that the Aggies will CONTINUE to prove em WRONG!  Of course, thanks, again for providing the site.  GO DEL VAL!!!

[jmcozenlaw]

Pat - With all due respect (and I sincerely do appreciate all that you guys do here), there is a way to deliver a message without being so mean spirited.......especially to an elderly woman. You've got to get some thicker skin. This is not real serious stuff in the scheme of life or in the pecking order of sports to be quite frank. You don't have to be a gregarious, fun, joking personality type to take the response off of the "mean meter"......sheesh.

"Let's make sure you know who you're talking to"......what?? Pat, again with all due respect, get off of your high horse. I believe that she not only knows who she's talking to but more importantly, who she's not talking to. Let's chill out here. I've got a very close friend who is a defensive coordinator for an NFL team getting wacked right now and he is getting buried on tv, radio, the internet, while shopping and his wife and kids are hearing it........and he hasn't reacted whatsoever. Enough of that.......

"And a No. 14 team in the country should probably beat those teams by more"......again, what??
That comment in and of itself tells me something. The young Aggies offense (only one senior and a QB only seven games into his run) beat a team on the road by ten points (I bet Kean would take that:) and only gave up ten points (with seven being the direct result of a fumble the first play of the second half deep in their own territory) to a team that put up 65 points against Wilkes.......who beat Widener. If you weren't at the game, you didn't see the dominance on the field.

To me, it's about the purity of football at a no-pay-to-play level. Winning your conference, against teams with equal playing fields in terms up financial aid packages, academics, etc. is truly what it's about. Being 14th ranked, 19th ranked, not ranked, who cares.........win a conference championship and anything else is gravy. Margin of victory is meaningless in the win column and not showing mercy against Kings and FDU is just a lack of sportmanship and class.

Small private schools (Mount Union aside) will have a hard time competing with the UWW's of the world given the funding the University of Wisconsin receives, the cheaper tuition, facilities (paid for primarily by the state), etc. Who cares if the champ of the NEFC can win a playoff game......the are the champions of the fair, equal opportunity conference and that's all that matters.

Great game by a stout Aggies defense and a very young Aggies offense:)

[jmcozenlaw]

Kate - Spot on!! This is a great site and all of the work is very appreciated but the feeling of being called out and bullied is very distasteful. There is a much nicer way to deliver the same message........but that is waht the internet has created. Social skills in society as a whole are going down the you know what as people can say whatever they want on a computer. I'd be a failure in my line of work if I didn't have great social skills (and a great feel for the financial markets)

[Warren Thompson]

Why was it so "hard" to recruit pre-Mangus? How did he change things? Did other conditions also change at Delaware Valley to make recruitment easier?

[Knightstalker]

I figure the previous coach just wasn't that good at recruiting.  Probably just got the kids that wanted to go to Del Val and didn't work for the ones that weren't sure where they wanted to go.

[Pat Coleman]

Pat - With all due respect (and I sincerely do appreciate all that you guys do here), there is a way to deliver a message without being so mean spirited.......especially to an elderly woman. You've got to get some thicker skin. This is not real serious stuff in the scheme of life or in the pecking order of sports to be quite frank. You don't have to be a gregarious, fun, joking personality type to take the response off of the "mean meter"......sheesh.

Welcome to the board. I know you're not as long-tenured here as maAggie is but at the end of a long day and 350 miles driving to cover Division III football, I'm not in the mood to read about what I supposedly haven't forgotten ... from 2002.

I'm not saying "know who you're talking to" like "do you know who you're talking to?" but just to say those exact words -- if you're going to talk to someone talk to the right person. I have no problem taking criticism for something I've done but let's make sure we don't just throw accusations and assumptions around.

[gordonmann]

At this point I think Del Val's recent success is a really big part of its continued recruiting success.  I don't know enough about the Pre-Mangus era to say how his approach differed from his predecessors'. At this point the coaches can sell the string of conference titles and post-season appearances. And their offensive coordinator, Duke Greco, is a really good recruiter from what I've heard. He handles the City of Philadelphia which has yielded a lot of really good players, including the freshman quarterback Wilmer.

Add that to the fact that Coach Clements does a wonderful job with the defense and you have a winning combination.

[Frank Rossi]

In defense of Pat and the site, it's always tough when people pin statements you never made against you or misconstrue what you meant in the first place.  Both have happened to me on these board since text is a tough means by which to put forth points when context can be lacking in short blurbs like these.  It can be disheartening to read those criticisms when we take plenty of hits for the things we DO say or do daily.

Remember, this site's role is to provide information AND analysis.  The analysis portion is the genesis of the "Triple Take" that became an issue here.  It's not meant to be a slap in the face or a sounding board to put forth agendas -- it's just analysis and predictions.  If it becomes bulletin board material, so be it -- but that's not our intent when we stick our necks out to make predictions here.  Remember, if the opposite prediction had happened, Albright fans would've been just as upset potentially -- it's a no-win situation.  Yet, would you prefer that predictions and analysis disappeared from the site?  I personally think these things add to the product and make the whole package of Saturday more fun -- who was right, who was wrong and who can we rib a bit at the end of the day?  Ultimately, the site does more to promote the student athletes and the programs -- it wouldn't make sense if anyone associated with it was trying to tear down the players or the schools.  We have better things to do than be counterproductive to our own efforts.

A couple weeks back, Gordon and I, both representatives of this site, posted in the East Region Fan Poll message board honest assessments concerning DelVal, with us both explaining how DelVal started in our Top 25 ballots, how they ended up where they were at that point, the future of the program and what we could see happening down the stretch.  We both agreed that the youth on offense could force a loss or two down the stretch, but we also agreed that the team grows by the week because of the experience.  Every team is ripe for a letdown-type game.  Even Mount Union struggled in the mud this year.  Fisher was torn apart by Hobart in a game that seems to run counter to most of the rest of Fisher's season so far.  Salisbury gave up 45 to Utica.  Montclair has had a couple close games.  My point is that the prediction against DelVal wasn't so far off base to draw an appalled type of criticism -- if that's the case, then what Gordon and I said should have been considered blasphemy.

It's fun to see reactions to our statements and fact-based, honest assessments for and against the predictions -- please do continue those since it helps us learn, too.  However, as Pat said, it's good to remember who said what in the first place and to not crucify the predictor for simply making the prediction.  Just say why you disagree and we'll have a nice, respectful debate, I'm sure.  We're all civil here -- we all love the sport, the programs and the players.  Let's enjoy the rest of the season as we encounter the postseason analysis to come.

[Warren Thompson]

Gordon (or anyone else in the know):

Who are Delaware Valley's chief recruiting rivals?

[Warren Thompson]

Frank Rossi:

Now if only things could be "civil" in the Politics room .... 

[kate]

WOW, Frank Rossi - you take this job very seriously.  I was trying my best to get something started on this site by hyping the predictions of Ryan & Keith and it's like you guys "took the bait", although i would have MUCH preferred comment by maAggie and PBR.  Cozeninlaw (sorry i massacred your handle) was a genius in his initial response.  Said it better than i could have ever done it.  Anyway, whew - still say GO AGGIES!  Warren that's a very interesting question.  I would certainly agree that success breeds success in recruiting and winning doesn't hurt any either. 

[gordonmann]

Warren:

Good question. My slightly education guess is Widener, Albright and Lycoming. 

Widener has the geographic proximity plus Del Val's coaches have strong connections to Widener so I suspect they have some of the same recruiting connections.  There's always a lot of interaction between the Aggies and the Lions after their games, including yesterday, which suggests they know each other from high school. Lycoming used to recruit pretty well in this corner of the state, but I've heard from the Del Val side that the Aggies' success has eroded that. A couple players have told me their college choice came down to Del Val, Lyco and maybe one other.

Del Val also has a lot of players from New Jersey. I'm not sure if the Aggies are really recruiting rivals for the NJAC schools though, since the public schools have a big price advantage. For example, two semesters of tuition costs about $8,500 at Rowan and about $28,500 at Del Val.

[Lyco80]

I went to homecoming this weekend in Williamsport and left for home - Arlington, VA - at halftime - the Warriors were dominating the Colonels that completely.  Shortly after the kickoff - they were up two more scores - one on a pick returned to the red zone.  The game ended with a dominant, one-sided score.  I sat and talked with a QB from my era who was at the Widener game and talked of all the pass interference calls of the first half and Lycoming's dominance of the second half.  Simply put, it seems to me that Coach Clark has a good team that is rolling along and may roll over some of the pre-season favorites to do well in the MAC.  Frankly, I think the Warriors are good enough to compete with anyone.

As to the DVC recruiting success - it is a complete mystery to me - especially how things were turned around so shortly after Lycoming just completely dominated the entire MAC for several years throughout the 1990s - twice appearing in the national championship game.  You would think the talent in the NJ-PA-NY area would be impressed with that performance and drawn to a program as successful as Lycoming - particularly after a succession of facility improvements to include a gym, recreation center, and new stadium complex.  The only thing I can point to is location - Williamsport is not Bucks County - but Doylestown is no metropolis either. 

Finally, my last mystery, and this one is aimed more towards parents than student-athletes, is given the standing of Lycoming in nation-wide college rankings based on criteria like graduation rate, PhD credentialed instructors, endowment, etc, it is hard to understand, how given nearly unmatched conference athletic success, they would agree to their sons choosing somewhere else other than Lycoming.

I suppose that is why they make Toyotas, Nissans, Hondas and all those other American cars.

ATB 

[Pat Coleman]

Mangus is a pretty dynamic guy. It wouldn't surprise me that he could sell enough kids on thought of coming to play for him, turn that into success, and then let that success build on itself.

[jmcozenlaw]

Lyco80 - "Finally, my last mystery, and this one is aimed more towards parents than student-athletes, is given the standing of Lycoming in nation-wide college rankings based on criteria like graduation rate, PhD credentialed instructors, endowment, etc, it is hard to understand, how given nearly unmatched conference athletic success, they would agree to their sons choosing somewhere else other than Lycoming".

As a graduate of a Centennial Conference school (Swarthmore) but living in bucolic Doylestown (45 minutes by train to Philadelphia, 90 minutes to Avalon, 60 minutes to skiing and 90 minutes to NYC) within walking distance of it's beautiful town.......you're right, Doylestown is not Williamsport:)

I'm not quite sure that Swarthmore, Ursinus, Muhlenberg, Dickinson, Gettysburg, Washington, Bryn Mawr, Franklin & Marshall, etc., spend much time pondering how to become as great as Lycoming. I'm not knocking Lycoming whatsoever but there are at least a few schools across this country (tongue-in-cheek firmly) that come close to it and would give parents a decision to make in terms of where to send their son's.

The best professor I had at Swarthmore was the only prof I ever had without a PhD. He applied his real world knowledge to each lecture and was actually drummed out as a result of his lack of interest in obtaining his doctorate. He went back out into the business world again, retired at 53 as a millionaire many times over, is a philanthropist and is an adjunct faculty member at a local college. I'll take real world experience with an MBA over a PhD with little to no real world experience any day of the week.

I love all schools that give kid's a chance without flaunting their selectivity and exclusivity and this is coming from someone who has lived it first hand.

I had my left ankle replaced (serious car accident) by a wonderful surgeon who actually went to Del Val for his undergraduate degree and my personal attorney went to West Chester and Widener Law and they did/do wonderful work........imagine that You can make anything out of this world that you want......you just need to be given the chance and work hard for it. I've hired and fired many Ivy League grads and my best employee over the past 20 years went to Bloomsburg State College. The paper may initially open up a door here or there but everything else is on the individual, not the name of the institution on a piece of paper.