FB: Middle Atlantic Conference

[jmcozenlaw]

Congrats to all of the MAC teams this season for making it competitive and fun season.   Definitely a "standard" season in terms of the normal stratification of top tier, middle of the pack, and struggling teams.

I was able to watch most of the game yesterday, and can't add anything more that what Jay, Gordon and Wesleydad added...definitely the fake punt was a game changer..as was the Widener(Davis) TD right after the answering Del Val score... On video, DV seemed to deflate after that.
I was really impressed with DV in this game.  Smallwood is a flat out beast..., the D played (especially in the first half) like champs, and were for the most part the reason Widener's O was off kilter.  Bailey was at normal "stud" level, and even though he had a tough game, I thought Wilmer looked pretty good...he just was probably not used to the defenders being a step closer yesterday, than they have been all season. (Guess???)...

In any case good luck to DV and WU in the seedings this evening.   Hoping both get at least 1 home game...

And Jay, you have been spot on with your predictions all season...great job!

Thanks bman...........I would like to thank the academy for this award 

It was a great season in the MAC............it just goes by so fast (unless you are playing 4/5 extra games like The Big Four )

I am hoping that the Aggies host a game but do see them ending up at Hobart.

Good luck to Widener along the way. I'll be on the board for a few more weeks until it goes into it's "months long hibernation" once the MAC teams are done............it makes me jealous of the Empire 8 and Liberty boards where there always seems to be something going on (and they complain about their boards being quieter than in the past.........wonder what it was like "back in the day"  )

bman - Other than an FDU, I'll assume that everybody else on the board is an Eagle fan (Gordon, not quite sure about you ) as I subscribe to the if you (1) don't live in XXXX or: (2) aren't from XXXX or: (3) don't have family that moved from XXXX.........your fandom for a distant team is fugazi. The Cowboys fan from Philly doesn't even resonate as it is not even allowed. Those Cowboys fans don't want your fake fandom and with that being said....................

E-A-G-L-E-S    EAGLES!!!!!!

[gordonmann]

I'm a Raiders fan (lived in LA when they were there) and have no worries about being called a bandwagon fan given their decade of stellar play.

[jmcozenlaw]

I'm a Raiders fan (lived in LA when they were there) and have no worries about being called a bandwagon fan given their decade of stellar play.

No Gordon, you pass the "lived there" litmus test

Now, coach Rissinger and a family full of Cowboys fans, born and raised in Doylestown................that's fuggazi

[Simba]

Watched the entire game on Livestream in my man cave full of former MAC players and other Skook County "Glory Days" jocks!...Sitting aside of me, one of my best friends who started 3 years for the Aggies at OT in the late 70's, early 80's...

We also felt "the fake" was the turning point...We wondered why the running attack that was working for DV in the first qtr gave way to more passing....The Pride's Defensive 46yds rushing ave/game was exceeded in the first two or three series by the Aggies....Grinding it out against the Pride would of ate up the clock and kept Klein and Davis off the field and the Pride's D shocked and on their heels...Our opinion might be bias because of being OT's but what lineman doesn't like smash-mouth rushing over passing?...

So soon we'll all know who gets the "PUMPKIN HEADS" and where...hopefully this year they'll at least shovel ALL the snow off the field before the game starts and not just the line markings and endzones as they did in 2008 when Lyco went up to Wine Country and lost...No sour grapes though cuz the winner had to go to Alliance the following Sat which the "PUMPKIN HEADS" did and got beat 50 to something!

Simba

[Joe Vasile]

Lycosimba - 48     FDU - 14    (Lycosimba does not want to make this long drive on a cold day........won't matter)

If Lycosimba wants to make this game...he needs to leave Williamsport soon. The game is at 7:00 tonight!

Bill - Loooooooong three hour drive back though for a pretty meaningless game

Did FDU ever try to leave the MAC for the NJAC over the last several years? If no, why not?

I actually ran into some FDU Football parents at work today and started talking because I saw their jackets.  They said brought up "they need to get out of that conference."  When I said that the NJAC wasn't going to be much better now with Wesley, Salisbury and Christopher Newport, they were surprised because apparently FDU was told they couldn't join the NJAC because they are a private school, and the NJAC is only for public schools.  Pat Coleman or Dave McHugh might be able to weigh in more on that, because admittedly, I have no idea if that is true or not.

Also congrats to Del Val and Widener on their NCAA selections.  They both more than deserved to get in the playoffs.  Having seen Muhlenberg against Wilkes earlier this year, Widener at home should take that game.  Mules run a Chip Kelly-like spread offense like Widener ran last year.  Wilkes did a nice job of shutting them down in the first half, but the offense couldn't sustain a drive (like in mostly every other game) and so the defense ended up being on the field for over 39 minutes and the floodgates opened up in the second half.  Widener shouldn't have that problem and could very well dominate.  Don't know much of anything about Christopher Newport this year.  Would be fun to see a rematch of the Keystone Cup to see who gets the "prize" of going to play UMHB in the Elite 8.

Another great season of MAC football is in the books...on to basketball!

[bman]

Lycosimba - 48     FDU - 14    (Lycosimba does not want to make this long drive on a cold day........won't matter)

If Lycosimba wants to make this game...he needs to leave Williamsport soon. The game is at 7:00 tonight!

Bill - Loooooooong three hour drive back though for a pretty meaningless game

Did FDU ever try to leave the MAC for the NJAC over the last several years? If no, why not?

I actually ran into some FDU Football parents at work today and started talking because I saw their jackets.  They said brought up "they need to get out of that conference." When I said that the NJAC wasn't going to be much better now with Wesley, Salisbury and Christopher Newport, they were surprised because apparently FDU was told they couldn't join the NJAC because they are a private school, and the NJAC is only for public schools.  Pat Coleman or Dave McHugh might be able to weigh in more on that, because admittedly, I have no idea if that is true or not.

I don't see them faring any better in the CC or the Liberty League....

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I am not sure about the NJAC's mission, but let's remember something... those schools are only joining for football. If there is a rule about only being a state school, it might apply to full membership.

Now that being said, they might have also confused the message that since they are private, the school is not interested in joining the NJAC because it is full of publics. Let's also remember another key fact: football might be struggling, but women's basketball just went undefeated and won a national championship and other sports are starting to compete in post-season play. The MAC for football is one big conference, but in every other sport they are starting to have success in the Freedom. Leaving the MAC because they are struggling in football might be more of cutting off their nose inspite of their face. And so far Stevenson and even Misericordia have shown you can start to compete in this conference. Stevenson and FDU are some what similiar... I just don't buy the excuse that the conference is the problem with FDU football.

[gordonmann]

The NJAC is mostly public schools, but it now has one private school member (Southern Virginia) and will have a second next year (Wesley). CNU, Frostburg State and Salisbury are public schools, like the rest of the conference. To my knowledge, all former conference members were public schools (Cortland St, Buffalo St, Brockport St, West Conn).

[bman]

Lycosimba - 48     FDU - 14    (Lycosimba does not want to make this long drive on a cold day........won't matter)

If Lycosimba wants to make this game...he needs to leave Williamsport soon. The game is at 7:00 tonight!

Bill - Loooooooong three hour drive back though for a pretty meaningless game

Did FDU ever try to leave the MAC for the NJAC over the last several years? If no, why not?

I actually ran into some FDU Football parents at work today and started talking because I saw their jackets.  They said brought up "they need to get out of that conference."  When I said that the NJAC wasn't going to be much better now with Wesley, Salisbury and Christopher Newport, they were surprised because apparently FDU was told they couldn't join the NJAC because they are a private school, and the NJAC is only for public schools.  Pat Coleman or Dave McHugh might be able to weigh in more on that, because admittedly, I have no idea if that is true or not.

Also congrats to Del Val and Widener on their NCAA selections.  They both more than deserved to get in the playoffs.  Having seen Muhlenberg against Wilkes earlier this year, Widener at home should take that game.  Mules run a Chip Kelly-like spread offense like Widener ran last year.  Wilkes did a nice job of shutting them down in the first half, but the offense couldn't sustain a drive (like in mostly every other game) and so the defense ended up being on the field for over 39 minutes and the floodgates opened up in the second half.  Widener shouldn't have that problem and could very well dominate.  Don't know much of anything about Christopher Newport this year.  Would be fun to see a rematch of the Keystone Cup to see who gets the "prize" of going to play UMHB in the Elite 8.

Another great season of MAC football is in the books...on to basketball!

I guess I am still a bit intrigued by Joe's report of comments made by FDU parents....so some more commentary...
None of it seems to make sense, and has taken us down the path of NJAC membership...but I'm not so sure, that's the point...

The context of those comments is everything, and without them (IMO), the meaning can be a couple different things.
"they need to get out of that conference."    could be construed as meaning that:
1. The conference is not aligned academically with FDU's mission...In which case, perhaps they would like to See FDU aligned with the Centennial (reasonably local), or the Liberty League (clearly less so)...In any case, certainly teams have chosen that path before (see Susquehanna, Juniata, Muhlenberg etc...)
2. The conference is too tough from a football perspective...which would clearly indicate that they don't really know Conference strengths..."When I said that the NJAC wasn't going to be much better now with Wesley, Salisbury and Christopher Newport, they were surprised because apparently FDU was told they couldn't join the NJAC because they are a private school, and the NJAC is only for public schools."    I doubt that FDU would be more than a 1 win team in the current NJAC scheme, much less after Wesley, Salisbury and CNU join...
3. The travel to some of the teams is too far...again, doesn't make much sense given the distances they would need to travel in the NJAC, CC or LL...

Maybe what the parents should be asking, is why doesn't the school seem to care much about the football program, when it is clearly interested in competing in other sports...If their agenda doesn't include a priority for football, so be it...thats their choice, but it certainly is a shame given their proximity to premier NJ HS football teams (Don Bosco comes to mind among others).

Thoughts?

[jmcozenlaw]

Lycosimba - 48     FDU - 14    (Lycosimba does not want to make this long drive on a cold day........won't matter)

If Lycosimba wants to make this game...he needs to leave Williamsport soon. The game is at 7:00 tonight!

Bill - Loooooooong three hour drive back though for a pretty meaningless game

Did FDU ever try to leave the MAC for the NJAC over the last several years? If no, why not?

I actually ran into some FDU Football parents at work today and started talking because I saw their jackets.  They said brought up "they need to get out of that conference."  When I said that the NJAC wasn't going to be much better now with Wesley, Salisbury and Christopher Newport, they were surprised because apparently FDU was told they couldn't join the NJAC because they are a private school, and the NJAC is only for public schools.  Pat Coleman or Dave McHugh might be able to weigh in more on that, because admittedly, I have no idea if that is true or not.

Also congrats to Del Val and Widener on their NCAA selections.  They both more than deserved to get in the playoffs.  Having seen Muhlenberg against Wilkes earlier this year, Widener at home should take that game.  Mules run a Chip Kelly-like spread offense like Widener ran last year.  Wilkes did a nice job of shutting them down in the first half, but the offense couldn't sustain a drive (like in mostly every other game) and so the defense ended up being on the field for over 39 minutes and the floodgates opened up in the second half.  Widener shouldn't have that problem and could very well dominate.  Don't know much of anything about Christopher Newport this year.  Would be fun to see a rematch of the Keystone Cup to see who gets the "prize" of going to play UMHB in the Elite 8.

Another great season of MAC football is in the books...on to basketball!

I guess I am still a bit intrigued by Joe's report of comments made by FDU parents....so some more commentary...
None of it seems to make sense, and has taken us down the path of NJAC membership...but I'm not so sure, that's the point...

The context of those comments is everything, and without them (IMO), the meaning can be a couple different things.
"they need to get out of that conference."    could be construed as meaning that:
1. The conference is not aligned academically with FDU's mission...In which case, perhaps they would like to See FDU aligned with the Centennial (reasonably local), or the Liberty League (clearly less so)...In any case, certainly teams have chosen that path before (see Susquehanna, Juniata, Muhlenberg etc...)
2. The conference is too tough from a football perspective...which would clearly indicate that they don't really know Conference strengths..."When I said that the NJAC wasn't going to be much better now with Wesley, Salisbury and Christopher Newport, they were surprised because apparently FDU was told they couldn't join the NJAC because they are a private school, and the NJAC is only for public schools."    I doubt that FDU would be more than a 1 win team in the current NJAC scheme, much less after Wesley, Salisbury and CNU join...
3. The travel to some of the teams is too far...again, doesn't make much sense given the distances they would need to travel in the NJAC, CC or LL...

Maybe what the parents should be asking, is why doesn't the school seem to care much about the football program, when it is clearly interested in competing in other sports...If their agenda doesn't include a priority for football, so be it...thats their choice, but it certainly is a shame given their proximity to premier NJ HS football teams (Don Bosco comes to mind among others).

Thoughts?

bman - Given some of the recent recruits on the FDU Women's Basketball roster....................it absolutely, positively has zero to do with number 1!!!!

I believe that it just not a priority at all. FDU's best running back the past two years transferred to DelVal and like half of the defense, got injured early on and missed this season.

He stated that the FDU football program was a mess. He did not fail out nor was he kicked out.

[Swish3]

CNU will have to play an exceptional game, especially on defense, to have a chance against DVC.  Can anyone provide any insight regarding their strengths and weaknesses?

[bill]

I am not sure about the NJAC's mission, but let's remember something... those schools are only joining for football. If there is a rule about only being a state school, it might apply to full membership.

Now that being said, they might have also confused the message that since they are private, the school is not interested in joining the NJAC because it is full of publics. Let's also remember another key fact: football might be struggling, but women's basketball just went undefeated and won a national championship and other sports are starting to compete in post-season play. The MAC for football is one big conference, but in every other sport they are starting to have success in the Freedom. Leaving the MAC because they are struggling in football might be more of cutting off their nose inspite of their face. And so far Stevenson and even Misericordia have shown you can start to compete in this conference. Stevenson and FDU are some what similiar... I just don't buy the excuse that the conference is the problem with FDU football.

Well said, Dave. Please trust me, FDU is not even remotely considering leaving the MAC. We really have no where to go...nor do we need to. We're not perceived (yet) as high end academic as the CC, and we cannot compete with the lost cost (and in some cases, admissions standards) of the NJAC.  As mentioned, our other sports are very competitive...besides Women's basketball, Field Hockey made the sweet 16 this year, and Women's Lacrosse has won the conference 3x of the last 5 years. Golf went to the NCAA's 5 straight years up till last year. (Sound like TCNJ, anyone? ) Most of the other sports at least make the MAC playoffs on an annual basis.

Why is football a problem? This is a very complex question. Some quickies, in no particular order:
1. Football remains a revenue positive endeavor. 100 tuition paying students at roughly 50K a year is big bucks. For the most part, as long as the beds are full, the "administration" is happy.
2. "administration" is a tough term at FDU. The people here actually consider the two NJ campuses one school..and DIII is just thought of as "something nice" to have. Many upper level administrators, all of which are located in Teaneck (45 minutes away), have no clue what sports teams we even have, let alone if they're successful. Our own previous President actually addressed our golf-fund raising crowd as supporters of KNIGHTS athletics - on numerous occasions. I believe he went to 1 football game in 10 years...the one when the field name was dedicated. D1 - and a crappy D1 program at that - comes first.
3. We rely on financial aid - as do the other MAC schools. Problem is, NJAC schools cost less than half of us. Big difference is the PA state schools all play scholarship D2. In theory, there should not be a great deal of cross-over.
4. We're in NJ. NJ is notorious for sending its best and brightest students (save Princeton, and an exception here or there) out of state...many end up in, you guessed it, PA. These student want to get away, and FDU is not on their radar screen.
5. We're not well funded for athletics....near the bottom of the conference in spending - including coaching salaries - yet we are in by far the most expensive area to live in the conference (I'm leaving Manhattanville out of this for now).

I can go on and on...but I'll stop boring you all to tears

[bill]

Lycosimba - 48     FDU - 14    (Lycosimba does not want to make this long drive on a cold day........won't matter)

If Lycosimba wants to make this game...he needs to leave Williamsport soon. The game is at 7:00 tonight!

Bill - Loooooooong three hour drive back though for a pretty meaningless game

Did FDU ever try to leave the MAC for the NJAC over the last several years? If no, why not?

I actually ran into some FDU Football parents at work today and started talking because I saw their jackets.  They said brought up "they need to get out of that conference."  When I said that the NJAC wasn't going to be much better now with Wesley, Salisbury and Christopher Newport, they were surprised because apparently FDU was told they couldn't join the NJAC because they are a private school, and the NJAC is only for public schools.  Pat Coleman or Dave McHugh might be able to weigh in more on that, because admittedly, I have no idea if that is true or not.

Also congrats to Del Val and Widener on their NCAA selections.  They both more than deserved to get in the playoffs.  Having seen Muhlenberg against Wilkes earlier this year, Widener at home should take that game.  Mules run a Chip Kelly-like spread offense like Widener ran last year.  Wilkes did a nice job of shutting them down in the first half, but the offense couldn't sustain a drive (like in mostly every other game) and so the defense ended up being on the field for over 39 minutes and the floodgates opened up in the second half.  Widener shouldn't have that problem and could very well dominate.  Don't know much of anything about Christopher Newport this year.  Would be fun to see a rematch of the Keystone Cup to see who gets the "prize" of going to play UMHB in the Elite 8.

Another great season of MAC football is in the books...on to basketball!

I guess I am still a bit intrigued by Joe's report of comments made by FDU parents....so some more commentary...
None of it seems to make sense, and has taken us down the path of NJAC membership...but I'm not so sure, that's the point...

The context of those comments is everything, and without them (IMO), the meaning can be a couple different things.
"they need to get out of that conference."    could be construed as meaning that:
1. The conference is not aligned academically with FDU's mission...In which case, perhaps they would like to See FDU aligned with the Centennial (reasonably local), or the Liberty League (clearly less so)...In any case, certainly teams have chosen that path before (see Susquehanna, Juniata, Muhlenberg etc...)
2. The conference is too tough from a football perspective...which would clearly indicate that they don't really know Conference strengths..."When I said that the NJAC wasn't going to be much better now with Wesley, Salisbury and Christopher Newport, they were surprised because apparently FDU was told they couldn't join the NJAC because they are a private school, and the NJAC is only for public schools."    I doubt that FDU would be more than a 1 win team in the current NJAC scheme, much less after Wesley, Salisbury and CNU join...
3. The travel to some of the teams is too far...again, doesn't make much sense given the distances they would need to travel in the NJAC, CC or LL...

Maybe what the parents should be asking, is why doesn't the school seem to care much about the football program, when it is clearly interested in competing in other sports...If their agenda doesn't include a priority for football, so be it...thats their choice, but it certainly is a shame given their proximity to premier NJ HS football teams (Don Bosco comes to mind among others).

Thoughts?

bman - Given some of the recent recruits on the FDU Women's Basketball roster....................it absolutely, positively has zero to do with number 1!!!!

I believe that it just not a priority at all. FDU's best running back the past two years transferred to DelVal and like half of the defense, got injured early on and missed this season.

He stated that the FDU football program was a mess. He did not fail out nor was he kicked out.

I'm not sure what you mean by that...are you implying that the current recruits are not strong students??

There are quite a number of people at FDU who do NOT think FDU's rapidly changing academic mission is aligned with the conference as a whole, but I'd rather not go down that road at this time. People get very sensitive when academic standards and prestige are discussed. As Dave stated, right now it wouldn't matter what conference FDU is in for football - we wouldn't fare any better against CC schools, that's for sure.

[bman]

Bill
+k...and thx...I think that does shed a lot of light...

[bman]

CNU will have to play an exceptional game, especially on defense, to have a chance against DVC.  Can anyone provide any insight regarding their strengths and weaknesses?

Swish

I'll defer to Jay and Gordon who can provide much more detail ,  but from my perspective, they run the ball extremely well..(Their runningback Smallwood is a beast)...
They have a great passing attack.  Their QB (Wilmer) is extremely polished, and has multiple targets.. especially Bailey who is a talent at the national level.  He will get his yards...
They score points in droves...so CNU will have to score to keep up...

If you happen to upset them, I wont be too sad...

Weaknesses is that the D is young, and teams have moved the ball against them...