FB: Middle Atlantic Conference

[PBR...]

All Chip Kelly did was allow a team to use the practice facility. That's nothing -- lots of coaches do that.

Couldn't agree more Pat... Happens all the time and I think the coach of Widener was really off base making that comment. Chip Kelly responded this morning and I agree with him and didn't realize as well some of the things Linfield has been through this year. http://www.crossingbroad.com/2014/12/chip-kelly-responds-to-criticism-from-widener-coach-doesnt-understand-it.html

[bman]

Edited:   Thanks Dave, my list cut off, and I didn't realize it...I think this is correct now:


Good representation from the MAC on the All-East Region Team:
First Team:

RB Chris Smallwood  DVC
WR Rasheed Bailey   DVC
WR Anthony Davis    WU
DT Tyler Glover         WU
LB Brandon Harper   WU
LB Frank Gaffney      LVC
S   Sean Titus           WU
ST Malik Gilmore       ALB

Second Team  

QB Aaron Wilmer              DV
RB Craig Needhammer  LYCO
LB Rashaad Lighty           DV
LB Kevin Burns                WU

Third  Team   

RB Brendan Irving           DV
WR Ryan Umpleby        LYCO
G Anthony Brooks          WU
K Daniel Sobolewski       ALB
RET Devonte Williams     STE
CB Austin Tennessee      STE
S Danny Wynne             DV


Congrats to all!

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

You leaving some guys off on purpose?

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

First Team Offense
RB Chris Smallwood     Delaware Valley
WR Rasheed Bailey       Delaware Valley
WR Anthony Davis       Widener

Second Team Offense
QB Aaron Wilmer          Delaware Valley
RB Craig Needhammer  Lycoming

Third Team Offense
RB Brendon Irving        Lebanon Valley
WR Ryan Umpleby        Lycoming
G Anthony Brooks        Widener
K Daniel Sobolewski     Albright
RET Devonte Williams   Stevenson

First Team Defense
DT Tyler Glover            Widener
LB Brandon Harper      Widener
LB Frank Gaffney          Lebanon Valley
S Sean Titus                Widener
ST Malik Gilmore          Albright

Second Team Defense
LB Rashaad Lighty      Delaware Valley
LB Kevin Burns           Widener

Third Team Defense
CB Austin Tennessee  Stevenson
S Danny Wynne          Delaware Valley

[bman]

You leaving some guys off on purpose?

Dorry

My list cut off...thanks for mentioning!

[gordonmann]

Pretty good year for MAC running backs! Congrats to all these guys.

[jmcozenlaw]

Without playing the admissions game and the transfer game, there are too many schools within an hour or two drive, competing for a shrinking number of talented football players (see concussions, local high school roster shrinkage and lacrosse) to become a Linfield or Mount Union.

This comes up from time to time, but nobody's sure it's really the case. Yeah, there's a higher density of schools in the East, but there's also of higher population density. (And lax is growing everywhere.) 

I'd love to see a deep report on this. There are an amazing number of factors at play and it's tough to know how much to weigh the factors. Just as an example: in the West, Minnesota has a strong d2 conference to content with, while there are no d2 programs in
Wisconsin and Iowa have one D2 schools between them. How much of a factor? Tough to say, but it's just one of the many considerations any worthwhile examination would need to include.

That said, I like Wesley's a lot this year. I think this is the year they get over the hump. Great program.

Population in Pennsylvania 12.7mil...Population in Oregon 3.9mil...High schools in PA. 4389...High schools in Oregon 1370...Linfield has 3 DIII football schools within 20 miles and a 4th within 40 miles...we all have our challenges at the DIII level... that is what makes us so special😀

Saw the facts & figures being thrown around...just want to shed more light on the topic: The above comparison, due to population & density, is very difficult to do - in fact, I'd say it's impossible.

PA has 25 (by my count) D3 schools! Of course, the 4-5 in western PA are certainly not anywhere close to Widener...but using Widener as the center, There are about 35 d3 schools within a 2.5 hour drive when one includes NJ, MD, and yes, the one school in DE.

Bill - You are spot on! You can't use population statistics like our friends in Oregon and the Midwest like to do. I can speak to the Philadelphia Public Schools and the smaller school's throughout the entire state of PA and many of them have rosters around 30-35 "players", some of whom would never see the field on a team with 60-80 players.

Division II West Chester State University (PA) has a quarterback up for the Harlon Hill Award (DII's version of the Heisman). I've been told by a DII coach who knows the DIII, DII and DI-AA landscape on a national basis and he stated that this particular QB is not as good as Kevin Burke. He also stated that colleagues of his at the DII and DIII level have stated over the years that Mount Union, UW-W and Linfield regularly have a good 15-20 players who would be playing, not just on a roster, at solid DII programs.......with a few at DI-AA programs.

In PA, with not only the 35 DIII schools within a pretty simple drive, you also have a couple dozen DII programs and a dozen or so DI-AA's. Most of these athletes choose the higher level of play, sometimes perceived though, especially since there is no Mount Union or UW-W on the DIII level in their own backyard.

These are just the facts as told to me over the years by coaches in the know..............not any of us on a chatboard

Wesley has become an Eastern Power (yes..............Delaware is in the East) and they will probably get more of those DII talent level players as a result. The other DIII PA teams consistently near at or near the top of the MAC (i.e. Widener, DelVal, Lyco) will always suffer from some dilution given the myriad of options within a couple of hours.

As a reference, just look at the Rowan teams from the glory days who always added higher level transfer talent to a roster which already had a good 4-8 players who could have done the DII strut. The only difference with the Mount's, UW-W's and Linfield's is that the higher division talent rarely transfers in...................they start out in the programs as freshman and usually stay all four years.

Other than Wesley, I truly don't see another Eastern program, for a variety of legit reasons, ever becoming a consistent, year in and year out, national power in football.

................and the WIAC, that is a DII conference posing as a DIII conference. The primary PA DII conference (PSAC) only dreams to have the facilities and resources of a UW-W

[D O.C.]

.and the WIAC, that is a DII conference posing as a DIII conference. The primary PA DII conference (PSAC) only dreams to have the facilities and resources of a UW-

You'll be noticing your smite meter going up a few notches after that.
I applaud. (Oops! there went mine up a peg.)

[bman]

Jay
All good points...clearly as has been noted a million times on here, admissions and price tag also factor in... But success begets success, and that is as big a factor as anything...

DOC. You are a cornucopia of smite...what the heck do you do???

[jmcozenlaw]

Jay
All good points...clearly as has been noted a million times on here, admissions and price tag also factor in... But success begets success, and that is as big a factor as anything...

DOC. You are a cornucopia of smite...what the heck do you do???

Can you say Brett Elliott?

See paragraph #3 below

http://www.oregonlive.com/collegefootball/index.ssf/2013/12/former_division_i_players_say.html

Same situation in PA, tons of DI-AA and DII opportunities. In the hinterlands...............not so much.

bman - D.O.C. is out in Oregon, rains all day so indoor activities rule. Can you say Cheech and Chong?

[bill]

Jay
All good points...clearly as has been noted a million times on here, admissions and price tag also factor in... But success begets success, and that is as big a factor as anything...

DOC. You are a cornucopia of smite...what the heck do you do???

Can you say Brett Elliott?

See paragraph #3 below

http://www.oregonlive.com/collegefootball/index.ssf/2013/12/former_division_i_players_say.html

Same situation in PA, tons of DI-AA and DII opportunities. In the hinterlands...............not so much.

bman - D.O.C. is out in Oregon, rains all day so indoor activities rule. Can you say Cheech and Chong?

I actually have a question related to paragraph #4...Linfield certainly didn't win an NCAA D3 national championship in 1984 or 1986....were they NAIA or something? Either way, I think it is a relatively big error, as the whole point of the article is the great experience that D3 has to offer!!

[jmcozenlaw]

.and the WIAC, that is a DII conference posing as a DIII conference. The primary PA DII conference (PSAC) only dreams to have the facilities and resources of a UW-

You'll be noticing your smite meter going up a few notches after that.
I applaud. (Oops! there went mine up a peg.)

Can you say Brett Elliott?

See paragraph #3 below

http://www.oregonlive.com/collegefootball/index.ssf/2013/12/former_division_i_players_say.html

Same situation in PA, tons of DI-AA and DII opportunities. In the hinterlands...............not so much.

[gordonmann]

Yes, Linfield won titles as a member of the NAIA before joining the NCAA.  There's actually a bunch of current Division III members on the list of NAIA champions (Pacific Lutheran, Texas-Lutheran, UW-La Crosse).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAIA_Football_National_Championship

[cawcdad]

bman - D.O.C. is out in Oregon, rains all day so indoor activities rule. Can you say Cheech and Chong?

Actually D O.C. is in sunny Southern California 

[bman]

bman - D.O.C. is out in Oregon, rains all day so indoor activities rule. Can you say Cheech and Chong?

Actually D O.C. is in sunny Southern California 

Well then the Cheech and Chong reference is most appropriate!