FB: Middle Atlantic Conference

[Pat Coleman]

Who hosts who should be clear as crystal. 

If you want clear as crystal, here you go:
North Central had a first-round home game.
Delaware Valley had a first-round road game.
That should be plenty of indication right there.

[unionpalooza]

Who hosts who should be clear as crystal. 

If you want clear as crystal, here you go:
North Central had a first-round home game.
Delaware Valley had a first-round road game.
That should be plenty of indication right there.

Which is total nonsense.  Why did the E3 go on the road and the E4 had a home game?  Why did the N4 get a home game and the E3 did not (notwithstanding same record, RROn record, and a lower SOS)?  If it's so clear why doesn't the NCAA just publish the seeds?  (Because they'd look dumb, I assume is the answer.)

[Pat Coleman]

The seeds definitely look dumb when you have 6 playing 8 in the first round. You think we get lots of stupid questions on Twitter now, imagine what would happen then?

[unionpalooza]

The seeds definitely look dumb when you have 6 playing 8 in the first round. You think we get lots of stupid questions on Twitter now, imagine what would happen then?

Oy. Which game was that?

[Pat Coleman]

Huntingdon at Berry.

[ITH radio]

And of course, the lower seeded team gets to host.

You're confusing regional ranking with seeding. They're not the same -- although they are drawn using the same info, once you take the eight teams and put them into a bracket, *then* they are seeded, and North Central was a higher seed than Del Val.

I get the seeding process and what you wrote above doesn't vibe with what Jim told me earlier today.

[wally_wabash]

This is just more evidence that the NCAA's half-*ss selection and seeding process is total gobbledygook.  Who hosts who should be clear as crystal.  This is not rocket science.  They should other go with bracket integrity and rank the seeds 1-32 and pair accordingly (though I think they'd have no real basis to do so, given the limited inter-regional play), or go with the top 8 in each region, seeded appropriately, and let the regional winners fight in the semis.  I know the NCAA is cheap as hell, and would like to get to claim they support D3 without actually having to support it financially, but where they've landed has zero intellectual integrity and zero practical coherence..

Pretty unfair assessment really.  I think there are legitimate questions to ask of the North and East RACs, but I think the national committee put together about the best bracket they could given the constraints that they have.  The idea that we can slot teams 1-32 and pair them off 1v32 2v31, etc is unrealistic and we would all probably be better off going forward just skipping that because it's a fantasyland solution.

Not supporting D3 financially?  This tournament only exists because the NCAA supports it financially.  No, they don't do it with a blank check, but we get a five round tournament which, for the most part, runs really well and is a great experience for the S-As.   

Delaware Valley has to travel to Chicago this week.  I'm sure the Rams can be disappointed in this decision for about 45 seconds, then realize that they are one of eight teams still playing, absolutely have a legit chance to play for a national championship and get right up and over that disappointment.  If you gave every player and coach at DelVal a ticket to Naperville for a national quarterfinal game prior to Week 1, they'd all take it, no questions asked.  Every single one.  This is hardly a gross injustice. 

[unionpalooza]

This is just more evidence that the NCAA's half-*ss selection and seeding process is total gobbledygook.  Who hosts who should be clear as crystal.  This is not rocket science.  They should other go with bracket integrity and rank the seeds 1-32 and pair accordingly (though I think they'd have no real basis to do so, given the limited inter-regional play), or go with the top 8 in each region, seeded appropriately, and let the regional winners fight in the semis.  I know the NCAA is cheap as hell, and would like to get to claim they support D3 without actually having to support it financially, but where they've landed has zero intellectual integrity and zero practical coherence..

Pretty unfair assessment really.  I think there are legitimate questions to ask of the North and East RACs, but I think the national committee put together about the best bracket they could given the constraints that they have.  The idea that we can slot teams 1-32 and pair them off 1v32 2v31, etc is unrealistic and we would all probably be better off going forward just skipping that because it's a fantasyland solution.

Not supporting D3 financially?  This tournament only exists because the NCAA supports it financially.  No, they don't do it with a blank check, but we get a five round tournament which, for the most part, runs really well and is a great experience for the S-As.   

Delaware Valley has to travel to Chicago this week.  I'm sure the Rams can be disappointed in this decision for about 45 seconds, then realize that they are one of eight teams still playing, absolutely have a legit chance to play for a national championship and get right up and over that disappointment.  If you gave every player and coach at DelVal a ticket to Naperville for a national quarterfinal game prior to Week 1, they'd all take it, no questions asked.  Every single one.  This is hardly a gross injustice.

Listen, if you want to go the "y'all should just be happy you D3 guys get anything at all," sure, no injustice at all.  But the NCAA takes in $1B off the backs of student athletes and redistributes a measly 3% back to all D3 athletics in the aggregate.  If they really believe in promoting amateurism, then yeah, I don't think it's too much to ask for slightly larger travel budget and real bracket integrity.  Because if D3 football fans aren't fighting for that, certainly no one else is. (And to be clear, I have zero gripes with a selection committee that is just looking to do the best it can with serious constraints.)

[Pat Coleman]

This is, unfortunately, what we agreed to in the constitution back in the 1970s. I don't see changing it, considering that you'd be asking the D-I schools to give away money with no benefit to them.

[wally_wabash]

Listen, if you want to go the "y'all should just be happy you D3 guys get anything at all," sure, no injustice at all.  But the NCAA takes in $1B off the backs of student athletes and redistributes a measly 3% back to all D3 athletics in the aggregate.  If they really believe in promoting amateurism, then yeah, I don't think it's too much to ask for slightly larger travel budget and real bracket integrity.  Because if D3 football fans aren't fighting for that, certainly no one else is. (And to be clear, I have zero gripes with a selection committee that is just looking to do the best it can with serious constraints.)

Yesterday, an all-time classic game between the teams ranked #1 and #5 in the division could not sell even 3,500 $10 tickets in no small part because folks in that part of the country would rather stay home and watch a D1 FBS game on TV.  So yeah, I think it's ok to be thankful that the NCAA subsidizes this tournament even to the extent that they do. 

[Bartman]

Who hosts who should be clear as crystal. 

If you want clear as crystal, here you go:
North Central had a first-round home game.
Delaware Valley had a first-round road game.
That should be plenty of indication right there.

Seems pretty clear.....this is why Pat gets paid the big bucks.....although Aggies should have had a first round home game IMO, but then at least they are still playing and I am quite jealous of Aggie fans for their survival to this point. Good luck in the Land of Lincoln next saturday

[jmcozenlaw]

To start, DVU is a 3 seed and NCC is a 4 in their respective regions. DVU is also a Pool A and NCC is a C. While I'll be the first to admit that NCC is the higher rated / better team from a rankings perspective, based on just those two data points, the Aggies should be the hosts.

Wally W would know more than I do I'll defer to him.

Interesting with Del Val being a 3 that they were on the road since round 1 but NCC hosted round 1. That would make it appear as though NCC was a 4 seed in this quadrant while Del Val was a 5/6. Just speculating but maybe it has to do with the losses? NCCs only loss was to Wheaton, who is holding down the 1 seed in their bracket, while Del Val got beat by the team they just got some vengeance on, but not a 1. I also wonder if, because there are no seeds announced officially, this is re-evaluated after each playoff game, in which case Saturday's results speak for themselves. Lastly, I'm not sure what Del Val's facilities are like, but NCCs are first class. I haven't seen many better. While it's moot now, I would be interested to hear the official take on it from Pat and/or Wally just to satisfy my own curiosity.  If you make the trip, Naperville is a wonderful place to visit; feel free to hit up the CCIW board for recommendations on food (there are a ton). And if not, enjoy our broadcast!

I think we can run around in circles trying to figure out with any certainty which team had which seed- this is part of why the NCAA doesn't slap those numbers on the brackets.  Geography blows those traditional assignments up, and certainly did so in this quadrant. 

Per the rankings, North Central was #4 in their region, Del Val was #3 in theirs.  However, they aren't in the same region, so those ordinals aren't directly related.  Certainly, if Chapman, ranked #1 in the West region, had won yesterday they would have traveled to Wheaton, ranked #2 in the North, this weekend.  So those regional rankings, when they come from different regions, while generally a good guide, aren't a concrete lock for figuring out which team should host. 

Based on the selection and seeding criteria, I think Del Val should be hosting this game as they have a stronger SOS and both teams have a similarly underwhelming RRO win (WashU, Stevenson).  But the difference isn't so huge that I'm surprised that North Central was selected. 

I also don't know if they add to their data sets as the tournament goes on.  I hope not.  I think a team's placement and hosting privileges for the tournament should be based entirely on criteria collected in the regular season.

This is just more evidence that the NCAA's half-*ss selection and seeding process is total gobbledygook.  Who hosts who should be clear as crystal.  This is not rocket science.  They should other go with bracket integrity and rank the seeds 1-32 and pair accordingly (though I think they'd have no real basis to do so, given the limited inter-regional play), or go with the top 8 in each region, seeded appropriately, and let the regional winners fight in the semis.  I know the NCAA is cheap as hell, and would like to get to claim they support D3 without actually having to support it financially, but where they've landed has zero intellectual integrity and zero practical coherence..

This post is so spot on.....................that I will just let it speak for itself (with the exception of the comment about the NCAA being so freakin cheap........and I'll add that they could give a rats azz about D-III anything. Sad. Really sad!!).

[jmcozenlaw]

This is just more evidence that the NCAA's half-*ss selection and seeding process is total gobbledygook.  Who hosts who should be clear as crystal.  This is not rocket science.  They should other go with bracket integrity and rank the seeds 1-32 and pair accordingly (though I think they'd have no real basis to do so, given the limited inter-regional play), or go with the top 8 in each region, seeded appropriately, and let the regional winners fight in the semis.  I know the NCAA is cheap as hell, and would like to get to claim they support D3 without actually having to support it financially, but where they've landed has zero intellectual integrity and zero practical coherence..

Pretty unfair assessment really.  I think there are legitimate questions to ask of the North and East RACs, but I think the national committee put together about the best bracket they could given the constraints that they have.  The idea that we can slot teams 1-32 and pair them off 1v32 2v31, etc is unrealistic and we would all probably be better off going forward just skipping that because it's a fantasyland solution.

Not supporting D3 financially?  This tournament only exists because the NCAA supports it financially.  No, they don't do it with a blank check, but we get a five round tournament which, for the most part, runs really well and is a great experience for the S-As.   

Delaware Valley has to travel to Chicago this week.  I'm sure the Rams can be disappointed in this decision for about 45 seconds, then realize that they are one of eight teams still playing, absolutely have a legit chance to play for a national championship and get right up and over that disappointment.  If you gave every player and coach at DelVal a ticket to Naperville for a national quarterfinal game prior to Week 1, they'd all take it, no questions asked.  Every single one.  This is hardly a gross injustice.

Listen, if you want to go the "y'all should just be happy you D3 guys get anything at all," sure, no injustice at all.  But the NCAA takes in $1B off the backs of student athletes and redistributes a measly 3% back to all D3 athletics in the aggregate.  If they really believe in promoting amateurism, then yeah, I don't think it's too much to ask for slightly larger travel budget and real bracket integrity.  Because if D3 football fans aren't fighting for that, certainly no one else is. (And to be clear, I have zero gripes with a selection committee that is just looking to do the best it can with serious constraints.)

THIS right here is "Post of the Year" material. We should be happy that we are even getting fed.......given the number of starving people in the world. Nah, it should be done the right way. We all know what the NCAA is and has been for decades. They just got their you know what's handed to them with the 'likeness' lawsuits. There will be many more to come. Think about what the budget might get cut down to when the professional classification (FBS) has players cashing in. The scraps might be taken away.................maybe even the cardboard boxes for shelter.

[wesleydad]

Who hosts who should be clear as crystal. 

If you want clear as crystal, here you go:
North Central had a first-round home game.
Delaware Valley had a first-round road game.
That should be plenty of indication right there.

Agree with Pat here.  Once the bracket is out you can figure out the seedings within the bracket.  Mount is 1, Wesley 2 Bridgewater 3, NCC 4.  Del Val would be a 6 based on them being on the road in round 1.  I believe if Wesley would have beaten Del Val on Saturday, Wesley would have hosted this weekend.

[Pat Coleman]

Think Del Val was the 5 because of geography, but either way.