FB: Middle Atlantic Conference

Pat Coleman · October 28, 2005, 02:47:06 PM

Yet Delaware Valley has a playoff win against a team not from the NEFC on its resume.

Pat Coleman · October 28, 2005, 02:47:59 PM

Oops, sorry, two wins.

'gro · October 28, 2005, 02:49:12 PM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 28, 2005, 02:47:06 PM
Yet Delaware Valley has a playoff win against a team not from the NEFC on its resume.

In the LL that's when we declare 'oh snap!'. Don't worry Hobart fans, your time will come.

ktroutvon · October 28, 2005, 02:54:15 PM

They've only gotten NEFC schools and the eventual regional champs each time. Widener, JCU and Rowan. I'm still waiting to get to see them play a CC, MAC or AFCA school in the playoffs. I don't see where it made sense to have Hobart playing NEFC schools those two years. They weren't the best team in the region and shouldn't have been playing the worst.

My point was simpmly that Delaware Valley hasn't done anything nationally either. Hobart has beaten Ithaca two of the last 4 times they played in this millenium. That's as good as a win over Muhlenberg or SJF. Somehow, though, DelValley is in the top 10. The MAC has probably been traditionally stronger than the LL teams, but they aren't in a position to draw a Pool C this year (and I don't think the scheduling has that much to do with it).

Chum Slam · October 28, 2005, 02:56:13 PM

2-3 in the last 5 years in the dance, yea real good.

Ktroutvon - Del Val had more wins in the playoffs in one year than Hobart has in 5.

ktroutvon · October 28, 2005, 03:03:11 PM

Who said it was real good. It's a start. Del Valley had two playoff wins last year. Shenandoah and SJF, both close games.

They have had two good years. There is an inherent inconsistency to some programs getting the benefit of the doubt based on past reputation (Ithaca and to some extent, Union as examples) while other programs that come out of nowhere are also given that same benefit of the doubt (DelValley & SJF for example). Which one is it going to be?

ktroutvon · October 28, 2005, 03:05:25 PM

I still haven't said that Hobart has done anything nationally. They have however been in the playoffs prior to being in a pool A conference. They have basically been horrible for the first 90-95 years of their existence. The only other decent year they had was in 1993 when they were invited to the NCAA's but declined due to being in trimesters and having finals interfere.

Pat Coleman · October 28, 2005, 03:12:30 PM

Quote from: ktroutvon on October 28, 2005, 03:03:11 PM
Who said it was real good. It's a start. Del Valley had two playoff wins last year. Shenandoah and SJF, both close games.

They have had two good years. There is an inherent inconsistency to some programs getting the benefit of the doubt based on past reputation (Ithaca and to some extent, Union as examples) while other programs that come out of nowhere are also given that same benefit of the doubt (DelValley & SJF for example). Which one is it going to be?

An objective observer would point out that Delaware Valley and St. John Fisher won playoff games against non-NEFC teams (or non-IBFC teams, if talking about a Midwest team).

Plus St. John Fisher plays and beats Brockport State, and has actually played Ithaca in the past two years. You talk about Ithaca but haven't beaten them since 2002. Fisher beat them last year and took them to overtime on the road this year.

ktroutvon · October 28, 2005, 03:26:33 PM

Which would take us back to the fact that Hobart hasn't had an opportunity to play mid-level teams in the playoffs. Its either NEFC or the regional champ. While I am biased a (as opposed to anyone else here), I feel pretty confident in saying that Hobart would've been fine against Shenandoah or Muhlenberg. Do they get the benefit of the doubt because the NCAA's have created the region the way that they did (regarding last year since that is all we're now talking about) over teams that don't get that opportunity?

As far as scheduling in the regular season, there isn't a single person involved with this site who has any influence over how AD's budget or handle scheduling. I've said before, when I played we had ten games. Dickinson (who was decent), F&M, Union, RPI, Ithaca, U of R, SJF, Hartwick, SLU and Alfred. If we played that schedule today we'd be fine. Instead of IC, SJF and AU it's WPI, CGA and KP with no 10th game. I don't know why its changed and I doubt anyone here can say give a exact answer on it.

splik · October 28, 2005, 03:38:33 PM

Quote from: Lyco80 on October 27, 2005, 08:21:15 PM
But seriously, I do appreciate the Upsala answer. And yes the question was purely rhetorical. One wonders if we shall have similar anecdotes for Juniata in the future too.

So because Juniata does not have as strong a football traditiion as Lycoming they are going to go out of business? I think their strong academic tradition is what prompted this move and what is will probably keep the doors open.

I am disappointed they are mocing to the CC, but it is a league in which they fit better than the MAC. It seems there are too many schools in the MAC, including E-town, Messiah, and Drew, to ever disband the conference. However, if the football conference were to disband, joining a totally different conference may work out best rather than being a 'football-only member' of another.

Lyco80 · October 28, 2005, 05:24:43 PM

To Phil,

90% of Lycoming students receive some form of financial aid - I know I am on the alumni board and this word is from President Douthat.

All the best.

Pat Coleman · October 28, 2005, 06:07:48 PM

Quote from: ktroutvon on October 28, 2005, 03:26:33 PM
Instead of IC, SJF and AU it's WPI, CGA and KP with no 10th game. I don't know why its changed and I doubt anyone here can say give a exact answer on it.

Well, I can't tell you why Hobart doesn't want to give its student-athletes the most games it's allowed to, but obviously you're playing WPI, CGA and KP because you are requred to. They're conference teams.

bill · October 28, 2005, 07:58:35 PM

splik

I see your point about teams leaving the MAC, but think of it this way:
If schools want to be with others of like minded academic missions, why wouldn't quality academic schools like Drew, Messiah, and E-town join with Juniata, Moravian, and Susquehanna band together to form a conference (without football, of course)? Then, they could get 2 other quality schools, like a Stevens (for example) and have the NCAA AQ for all of their other sports....
You'd have a very competitive academic conference...
Oh well. We'll see what happens soon.

gordonmann · October 28, 2005, 08:17:30 PM

Programming note...

Delaware Valley battles the King's College Monarchs, fresh off their upset of Widener last week.

Catch the action at www.sportsjuice.com starting with pregame at 12:30 and kickoff at 1 PM.

ACMob · October 28, 2005, 08:30:51 PM

If the regional rankings "Bart#2, DVC#3 stay, then both teams will meet in the regional semis. The NCAA, as stated, goes by record only when seeding many teams. Why Hobart is over DVC is beyond me, unless they figure that the win over RPI( another ranked region team) is better than any DVC win to date.

My question would be DVC was ranked #2 last year(East) what has changed?