FB: Middle Atlantic Conference

[PBR...]

i know mangus brought in very large classes i cant remember the exact numbers but upwards of 80+ and maybe even over 100 a couple of times but that i think was done by how poor the talent level was when he took over kids new they they would have a chance to play right away plus mangus was a dynamite recruiter and kids knew they would get a look even with the large numbers.

[bill]

Guys
Just remember that at many D3 schools, there is a HUGE attrition rate. Unless you are at a "cream of the crop" school, or have incredible luck, the school NEEDS 40-50 freshmen every year to keep the squad total at about 100. By the time that 50 player class becomes seniors, many a program would be fortunate to have 20 seniors left...
Without the $$ to keep players around, it takes a dedicated person to stick with the team despite not getting on the field. Factor in academic concerns, financial aid, and injuires, and it's tough to keep all of the players around.
I know this example is ideal, but if you have 2 deep on O and D, (44), and a "look" squad to service each team, that's 66 healthy players needed to even practice...

[john merrick]

bill,
I think the attrition rate would be worse by bringing in 40 to 50 players.  As you stated, it's hard for players to stick around when they don't get on the field.  If you bring in more players, then that's just more players who sit the bench.  You can only play so many even with liberal substituting.  If I'm a player and see another 149 or so players on the team, I know my shot at getting a chance to play is less then if a team carries only 100 players. 

[PBR...]

i would disagree a little bit john in the fact that kids at this level realize they are not going to play at the next level and play for the love of the game. So it is not quite as big of a deal if they arent seen on espn on saturdays plus the way i see it if you look at the incoming class and say thats a lot of kids to go up against it to me means your afraid of competition in that case most coaches would not want you on the team. case in point penn st graduates almost their entire def backfield this year so they are bringing in a lot of kids who were either all state or all american in high school so they better be ready to compete. Some kids will switch to other positions if they get beat out by somebody as well.

[bill]

John
I understand your point, but here's a few other things:
With very few exceptions, D3 schools can't target their recruiting as much as they would like. They visit hundreds of athletes, and hope that they'll come. Not many schools are going to tell a kid that he's not wanted. If a kid wants to pay the money and come, they'll welcome him with open arms.
I'll return to my example of a 50 student class:
5 kids during camp (as freshmen) realize that this is serious business, and that it's not for them
2 kids don't pass the physical
10 kids are good enough to contribute in some way (special teams, etc.) immediately
the other 33 have to decide whether or not they'll ever be good enough to play. Many decide they are... We now have 43 left from our class of 50.

Then, over the next 3 years, (unfortunately) 2-3 might get hurt and decide to give it up, or not be able to perform anymore. 5 more have academic issues, and have to transfer/leave school. 5 more have financial aid problems. 10 more rethink the "am I good enough" question and decide that they're not...We now have only 23 students left after 4 years.
I can only speak for what I have seen at FDU. However, from talking with others over the years, I don't think my examples are that far fetched. Most MAC schools do not have senior classes of 25+ year in and year out.
It's especially difficult at schools where the team hasn't had success winning year in and year out. In those cases, I think players are quicker to "bolt" and not stay with the program. Everyone wants to be a winner, and the marginal player has a hard time sticking around...
I guess what I am trying to say is that even with a 50 player class, the team still won't have 150+ players.

[john merrick]

uPBRmeASAP,
I agree that players at this level play for the love of the game which is exactly why I would want to go somewhere that I am going to get a good look.  Not somewhere that I'm buried behind 20 other position players.  If I only have 4 years of football left, I want to play, not sit.  I don't think that necessarily says you are scared of the competition.  Penn State is also a different situation.  You could sit there for 3 years, make a big impact your senior year, and end up a free agent in the NFL. 

bill,
I guess my experiences were a bit different.  I was used to recruiting classes of around 20.  I didn't see much attrition due to injury or transferring.  Maybe the situation I saw was not the norm. 

[OTDE72]

Anyone hear anything on the Wilkes OC Mcnulty leaving? or better stated Sheptocked?

[jb]

The reason I ask the question about recruiting numbers at D3 because there seems to be High and lows.
I know Lyco averages about 35 recruits a year, in the last 5 at least.  Between the highs and lows (# of recruits) they seem to be filling holes that they project.

Other schools just seem to bring in 50 kids a year no matter what...and carry 135 on a team.  I think attrition plays a factor a little...but remember if you start with 100 players and lose 20 to 25 in a year to various things you still have 75, and you still can't dress all those on the road.

[Billman56]

UPBRMEASAP

Glad the warmer weather is close. How was your Winter? Well today is the 2nd day of Spring Practice at DVC.  My question, is there going to be anything done with the football field. From the bleachers it dosent look to bad. but up close it is horrible. If they are going to re sod it,I would think it would be underway but then again I dont know too much about grass and sod etc.  I would think now is the time of year to do it...not in the heat of the Summer. what is your take on it??

I see a lot of funds poured into upgrading the baseball field, I would have thought football would have taken precedence over that, as there were complaints from the visiting playoff teams in December regarding the field condition.

[bill]

Billman

I always thought it funny that a school with an actual "turf management" or ag major would have problems with a grass field 
Can't they have some of the actual students work on it?

[PBR...]

my guess is they have to wait awhile longer to stay away from deep freezes as well as coordinate it with a outside vendor for the laying of the sod etc....but i dont have anything factual yet....yes they do have ag students work on different things around the school as a matter of fact when i went there you were assigned certain trees/shrubs and gardens your maintenance of this area was a major part of your final grade i am not sure if they still do that....

[jb]

I know alittle bit about grass and sod, as I use to manage a baseball field.  Certainly sod is easier than seed when re-doing a field, sod rooting really only occurs above 60 Degrees and constant watering for at least the month to take hold.  Seed germination and growth is normally 3x what sod is, with slightly warmer weather and watering.

So re-doing a field in PA. really should be started in early April, and that give the grass,sod, a solid 2 months before the summer scorch of june.

[Chum Slam]

YAY!!!! IM BACK!!!!! 

[PBR...]

didnt know you were gone chum slam.....

[Lyco80]

Hey MAC Posters,

Just spent three days on campus at Lycoming and wondering what you are hearing in regard to the MAC and its future?

Anyone have any scuttlebutt (Navy slang for gossip) to pass around?

ATB