FB: Middle Atlantic Conference

[Knightstalker]

also it probably is impossible to put a math to the question but the day of the internet(thx al gore) and email, etc. its much easier than it used to be for players to put together highlight film of themselves and get it in front of div I-A, AA coaches. my thery being that maybe some of the kids who used to fall thru the cracks due to lack of exposure now have a huge recruiting tool at hand to get film of themselves in front of the coaches at all levels. just a thought....

Could there also be a trickle down effect with recruiting?  D-I schools lose players every year early to the Draft, declaring for the draft and not pulling out in time, failing out etc.  Could this cause some schools that are not powers to go after the better players that would normally gone to D-IAA who are borderline talent but will stay for four years.  This in turn causes the D-IAA to go after D-II and D-III caliber players and D-II to go after D-III type players?

Just a thought.

[maAggie]

No disrespect meant here, but since you mentioned one of All-American's from DelVal, and after having seen those players for a few years, I'm not so sure talent is down. While we may not have receivers with the natural speed of those from the recent past, the guys we currently have are out there make some spectacular catches and there aren't any guys fighting for more catches. I think that there are a lot of reasons that quality guys don't go to bigger divisions or bigger programs, and instead choose to play D-III. Among those are a desire to play immediately, and sometimes, the comfort of not being too far from home. To make a blanket statement that the talent level is down, isn't fair or correct from what I'm seeing. I agree with the cyclical theory of Gordon, but also think that a different recruiting philosophy may also be a part of the new coaching regimes at a few of the MAC schools and other D-III's as well. Lastly, I think financial concerns also affect a lot of D-III rosters, as kids can't find enough dollars to cover the ever increasing tuitions at schools where no athletic money is available.

[Knightstalker]

The cost is a good point MaAggie.  If a player was considering say, Moravian, FDU, Muhlenberg, Lyco and maybe Kings for example and the cost is overwhelming and the FA is not their adequately that same kid might consider Kutztown St, ESU, or another D-II state college that is more affordable and where they could probably still make the team.

[bill]

 I agree. At our level, cost/financial aid package is THE number one reason kids pick one school over another - even over academic reputations in many cases.

I also find it interesting that you mentioned the state school vs. MAC in cost/choices.
(Potential sour grapes warning ahead!)
One disadvantage that FDU has versus the rest of the MAC is the state school issue. In NJ, the state schools are all division 3. FDU cannot compete with these schools when cost is the primary concern - it's that simple.
In PA, as you know, the state schools are division 2. Theoretically, they shouldn't be competing with the MAC PA schools for the same players.
(this is why I've felt FDU should be recruiting in PA WAY more, but that's another post   )

[Knightstalker]

I agree. At our level, cost/financial aid package is THE number one reason kids pick one school over another - even over academic reputations in many cases.

I also find it interesting that you mentioned the state school vs. MAC in cost/choices.
(Potential sour grapes warning ahead!)
One disadvantage that FDU has versus the rest of the MAC is the state school issue. In NJ, the state schools are all division 3. FDU cannot compete with these schools when cost is the primary concern - it's that simple.
In PA, as you know, the state schools are division 2. Theoretically, they shouldn't be competing with the MAC PA schools for the same players.
(this is why I've felt FDU should be recruiting in PA WAY more, but that's another post   )

The MAC recruits or did recruit hard in North West Jersey.  I think about the same number of kids from my old HS (about 10 miles East of Easton PA) go to MAC or Cenntennial schools as go to NJAC schools.  I have said for quite a while I would have been better off financially if I had gone to Moravian instead of NJCU, Moravian had a much better FA package, but stupid me thought the state school would be better.  Also the music Faculty at NJCU was and is first class.  Many professors graduated from Julliard and some taught there and at Manhattan school of music also.

[bill]

Knightstalker

Absoultely. I haven't checked this year's roster yet, but last year Wilkes was almost 50% NJ players!

I was trying to convey that the MAC schools have long pounded NJ (and PA) for their players without having to go head to head (for the most part) with their own state schools, while FDU (and Upsala, remember them?) has to compete with both MAC, Centennial, and NJ state schools for the same talent. Thank god that schools like Monmouth started giving money, because for a while we were also competing with the likes of them, St John's, Iona, etc. also!!

[bill]

Gordon

I also wanted to point out the the TE to which you referred at FDU is a transfer from Montclair State. He spent a full year here (last year) and is now on the team. I believe originally started out at Monmouth, but I'm not sure if he even practiced there....

[G-manWU]

Bill, while I have never checked the official ratio, you are exactly correct that around 50% of the roster at Wilkes is made up of Garden State natives- Coach McCree deals with Jersey and dose a very good job in the area. I've been born and bread here in Scranton, and always kept an eye out on our recruting lists for local talent coming in when I was there, so please allow me to share some insights.

- In terms of our closest competition for local players, I have seen a large number of local players from the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area choose one of the PSAC schools over either Wilkes or King's, or both, with Bloomsburg and ESU being the most obvious choices. The state schools are a good bit less expensive, and that has always been a deciding factor even before the current economic climate set in. King's dose compete with the Colonels for some players- both schools have their pipelines and sometimes snatch a player from each other's strongholds, but I think both schools lose a tremendous amount of potential talent to the PSACs every season.

- In terms of other D3 schools recruting NEPA, the CC dose get some guys form time to time, but probably the biggest movers are the Yellowjackets of Rochester, as they have a few schools where they have gotten a number of players from over the past few years.

- Anohter movement sweeping across the local landscape is having players turn down playing opportunities at all smaller levels in order to get a shot as a "preferred walk-on"- with no scholarship- at a school like Penn State- there are currently a batch of players that I cna think of from this area who would play at a local school but turn it down for the chance to dress up and run out of the tunnell at a bigger school- dosen't make much sense to me when they could have a fantastic 4 years of playing time at most any d3 school.


In the end, it all leads up to a challenging recruting environment for the two local MAC teams. No question Coach Shep and Coach Manello work as hard as anyone in recruting, but the competition is absolutley brutal. When I came to Wilkes and started working with the team, my class and the one before it had a tremendous amount of local talent, but that seems to have slowed up a bit lately. It translates into the likleyhood of us seieng another Trichilo vs. Jackson-style matchup in the near future all the less likley.

[dog]

I just want to clarify that I am not taking a shot at the players in the conference by my previous post.  I had the opportunity to get to the Albright/Widener MAC game last year which had major implications.  It was at that point the most important game in the Mac.  I have been watching the conference with a close enough eye over the last ten years.  To me it just didnt seem like a typical League deciding game. 
This is not intended to take a shot at any of the players out there.  I think there are a ton of great players in the MAC right now.  Kelly, and Romig are both great players for example. 
This was just an observation, but I do think that D3 schools are going to have to do something in the near future to be able to compete with the other levels.  Regardless D3 will always be here, and be great football.  I just feel they will begin to miss out on a lot of guys that have scholarship potential.  As someone mentioned "preferred walk-on" or walking on at a psac school which is still way cheaper than Widener, DVC, or Albright.  Obviously this isnt ground breaking information, but I think with times changing we are seeing some of the direct effects of the new recruiting game.

[KingSting999]

Congratulations to the Aggies on a "workmanlike" effort on the road against a competitive Kings team. As the MAC scores showed, every game should be a real battle wheyjer you are at home or on the road!

Way to go Mikey and Goose for being named MAC players of the week. It is well deserved. I was impressed with the Aggies effort to control the Monarchs running game but they will face an even stronger test this weekend with Leb Val's Parker. Aggies did not protect the ball as well as usual ;ast week and will have to corect that against the ball hawking Leb Vaal team to keep their winning streak alive.

Let's have your predictions for this week's games.

Leb Val @ Del Val

Wilkes @ FDU

Widener @ Kings

Albright @ Lyco

Should be another interesting week. Will post mine later in the week!
GO AGGIES!!!!!!!!!!

[G-manWU]

Dog, you make a very vaild point with respect to the MAC talent across the board, and I very much value and respect your opinion.  I don't know if it is exactly accurate to say that the talent level is down- in my view the MAC has been blessed with many players who are exceptional talents in the last four years, and the departure of some of those players dose very much leave a gap that can't always be filled. My freshman season with the team at Wilkes was also Trichilo's senior year, and in the months that followed I had everyone asking me "How is Wilkes going to replace Trichilo next season?" Indeed, it perhaps is the case that we have all been spolied the last few seasons

In regards to my point about walking on at bigger schools, I was referring to the route several local players have taken lately of discarding the chance to play for a D3, D2 or even a 1-AA (as it will always be called by me) school in favor of being a "preferred walk-on" at a 1-A school like Penn State, Syracuse, or Temple. In many cases these players need to pay their own way through and may get to dress for home games, but in the end they never earn a scholoarship, make the travel roster, or live out their big-time dreams as they play out the way their high school coaches tell them they will. And here in PA District 2, I see this happening more and more often- sometimes I see players in high school who I think would struggle to earn a starting spot on a D3 team and learn later they the'll be "walking on" at a BCS school next season

In my four years at Wilkes I saw many players who could have easily chased those big-school dreams, but chose instead to come to a school where they would get a great education and would get to play- really play- football at the same time. All of them had their own reasons as to why they ended up at the Ralston Field complex as opposed to, perhaps, the Carrier Dome, but I think few of them would really regret that decision.

My bottom line on the big-school issue is that I beleive the practice of high school  players thinking too big in terms of their future potential is a very real one, and something that not only robs many D3 schools of talent, but also can contribute to the individual players having a less-than-rewarding college experience at whatever big school they choose. There are many people who could be blamed in each individual situation-  high school coaches looking to make a name as talent-developers, parents and friends who want to brag, and many others- but in the end it often winds up being a bad deal, and leads us to the point that Dog is discussing.

[PA_wesleyfan]

  One thing that you should add to the equation in Pa. is Penn State. I coached high school baseball for five years and semi-pro ball for another three and I was around the football team for quite a few years  and I can say without hesitation that there are many good athletes who want to go to Penn State. Not for sports but because it is Penn State. Some of them end up at off site campuses for two years and play a sport there but when they transfer there playing days are over. There are no off site schools that have football that I know of.
 Secondly, The D II schools have a big advantage selling there schools because of costs which has been talked about and prestige. A kid who gets recruited by a D II
school even if he doesn't go there has that letter that said he was good enough.
 And lastly, the D II schools can hang that money carrot in front of a player. Though they don't give everyone equal scholarships , they do use that as an incentive

[Knightstalker]

Not to mention MAC schools are also competing with Leigh and Lafayette for some of the same students/players. 

[G-manWU]

Gordon- I don't know if you'll remember, but I finally met you before the Wilkes-DVC game this past season and ran into you again at the Wilkes-Desales basketball playoff game- I should make the Wilkes-DVC game this season and will be sure to catch up with you! I agree that some players come in and play at an exceptionally high level, and that creates a benchmark for fans that is sometimes hard to reach (see my previous post for more on this)

Bill- Ever since we opened with WPU and then faced Rowan in the playoffs in '05, I have maintained that I cannot understand how the NJ state schools are not playing in D2 agains the likes of Bloom and ESU, instead of taking it a bit easier than they should be in D3- it makes life much tougher on you guys at FDU and I salute you for doing well in spite of this difficulty. But believe me, competing agaisnt the PSAC in recruting is a daily grind for the two local MAC programs when dealing with local players. I can name a batch off the top of my head that would serve as good examples- we got some of them, but many others went the PSAC route. Another big obstacle is the Patriot League, with Bucknell, Fordham and Colgate grabbing a bunch of District 2 guys in the recent past. But the big competition comes from the PSAC- there's a bunch of them and they love to fill their rosters with guys from this area.

[G-manWU]

Knightstalker- how could I forget the Lehigh Valley clubs when mentioning the Patriot League Thanks for making up for one of my many slip-ups!