FB: Middle Atlantic Conference

[TheApprentice]

"just obrservations...when a team beats who dvc did this year and has to play under those conditions it allows 1 to question how good a team is, especially when they stumbled to the finish line. somehow pbr doesnt see lyco beating wesley, salisbury, albright this year. but now you have a chance to prove everyone wrong and play hobart and then muc. if your as good as you claim lyco to be then we shall should see a very close game against muc?"

"just observations"...but I'm pretty sure Lycoming beat Albright with a pretty convincing performance, the score makes the game closer than it really was....and lost to #12 Ithaca (who is a 2 seed in the playoffs) via a blocked extra point. As for the pitty party for the conditions of the game at Lycoming v.s. DVC...I'm quick to "observe" DVC's 7 fumbles losing 2 v.s. Lycoming's 4 fumbles losng zero. I'm also quick to "observe" they both played at Person field at the same time, under the same conditions, on the same field....so while you offer congratulatory remarks, i'm not so sure you should offer them after trying to excuse your teams "unfair conditions". As for the playoffs, Lycoming is very capable of beating Hobart...and they will matchup against MU just as fairly as any deserving team who gets that opportunity. To think DVC would be any more favored against MU is an extreme overstatement and statistically false in the case between Lycoming or DVC, so I would ask you be slightly more reasonable in your "observations" and realize one thing, Lycoming is in, in 2008. They beat DVC and they beat Albright...can't say much more. Finally, what "claim" do you speak of?? I can only claim Lycoming is better than DVC this year. Thanks.

[PBR...]

"just obrservations...when a team beats who dvc did this year and has to play under those conditions it allows 1 to question how good a team is, especially when they stumbled to the finish line. somehow pbr doesnt see lyco beating wesley, salisbury, albright this year. but now you have a chance to prove everyone wrong and play hobart and then muc. if your as good as you claim lyco to be then we shall should see a very close game against muc?"

"just observations"...but I'm pretty sure Lycoming beat Albright with a pretty convincing performance, the score makes the game closer than it really was....and lost to #12 Ithaca (who is a 2 seed in the playoffs) via a blocked extra point. As for the pitty party for the conditions of the game at Lycoming v.s. DVC...I'm quick to "observe" DVC's 7 fumbles losing 2 v.s. Lycoming's 4 fumbles losng zero. I'm also quick to "observe" they both played at Person field at the same time, under the same conditions, on the same field....so while you offer congratulatory remarks, i'm not so sure you should offer them after trying to excuse your teams "unfair conditions". As for the playoffs, Lycoming is very capable of beating Hobart...and they will matchup against MU just as fairly as any deserving team who gets that opportunity. To think DVC would be any more favored against MU is an extreme overstatement and statistically false in the case between Lycoming or DVC, so I would ask you be slightly more reasonable in your "observations" and realize one thing, Lycoming is in, in 2008. They beat DVC and they beat Albright...can't say much more. Finally, what "claim" do you speak of?? I can only claim Lycoming is better than DVC this year. Thanks.

thx for your 1 post this year....see you again next nov...my beef isnt w/ lyco in case your wandering. after all this IS a board where things are debated...heavens to betsy someone might disagree w/ anothers point...bottom line you need a little thicker skin but again we appreciate your yearly post

[pumkinattack]

PBR,

  I'd like to make you an offer and cordially invite you as an honorary Statesmen for this saturday.  You seem to like to spend time in the LL board and appear frustrated with the situation in the MAC.  We'd love to have a brother from another (league) mother in our tent.  Care to make the jump?  What kind of beverage selection will it take?

[PBR...]

PBR,

  I'd like to make you an offer and cordially invite you as an honorary Statesmen for this saturday.  You seem to like to spend time in the LL board and appear frustrated with the situation in the MAC.  We'd love to have a brother from another (league) mother in our tent.  Care to make the jump?  What kind of beverage selection will it take?

pbr has to think about that....pbr is obviously a huge dvc fan and supports the mac strongly whenever possible. pbr's sis is a lyco grad and pbr wants lyco to do well other than when playing dvc. pbr has been over w/ dem boyz on the llpp for a loooong time now and they are some very cool catz and pbr likes to see the LL do well. so pbr needs to mull this one ovah for a bit (although you are quickly finding pbr's heart w/ the alcohol beverage selection....)

[TheApprentice]

PBR,
Chillllllllllllllllll don't get so upset....I understand that your beef is not with Lycoming as my beef is not with you. I simply stated the facts....and your right, after ALL this is a board where things are debated. I never put a personal attack on you...I stated the facts along w/ my reasonable opinion. As for my one post a year....I'm a new member and a person who would like to truly congratulate the Lycoming football team, Coach Clark and staff without an excuse for another team as why they're not in!  

As for "thick skin"....I'll refrain from personal comments. The Apprentice appreciates your concern.

[KingSting999]

Hey Apprentice,

You should be kissing Del Val's butt. Without them thumping Albright this past Saturday you would be home now sitting on your thumbs. Enjoy the moment, nice to see posts like yours that come out of no where. Where were you all year???
Can you say "front runner"

At least the Del Val fans on here have been backing their team all year long, win or lose. And yes, in my humble opinion, under normal game conditions the Aggies spank Lyco 7 out of 10 times.........but this is just my opinion, am I entitled to that??

[KingSting999]

Question. Did the loss to Ions figure in the Aggies eligibility for the at large bids. I know that no three loss team would get in but without that out of division game the Aggies were 7 - 2, with two wins over ranked opponents.  Anybody have the answer on that?

[gordonmann]

It's not a direct answer, but Frank Rossi reported that the Division III Selection Committee Chair referred to Husson as a two-loss team.  Husson's loses came to two Division II teams and one of them (AIC) was just eliminated from the Division II playoffs.  If Husson was a two-loss team, than Del Val certainly may've been a three loss team. 

When I brought up Husson, his reaction was, "Well, they're a two-loss team."  He went on to discuss that the Committee cannot simply stop at Primary Criteria in general when deciding teams for the Football Championships because there are simply not enough games played to allow such a low number of statistics to control the selection.  Stated differently, Secondary Criteria are going to apply just as much and as quickly as Primary Criteria.  In a sport like basketball, in which 30+ games are generally played, the Primary Criteria/Secondary Criteria hierarchy can work.  However, in football, his belief is that they need to enter into a full discussion immediately, even weighing criteria like scores and some subjective standards when looking at Pool B and Pool C teams.  This would explain the treatment of Husson and SJF in the Regional Rankings thus far.

Here is the full post from Frank.

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4728.msg976152#msg976152

[PBR...]

It's not a direct answer, but Frank Rossi reported that the Division III Selection Committee Chair referred to Husson as a two-loss team.  Husson's loses came to two Division II teams and one of them (AIC) was just eliminated from the Division II playoffs.  If Husson was a two-loss team, than Del Val certainly may've been a three loss team. 

When I brought up Husson, his reaction was, "Well, they're a two-loss team."  He went on to discuss that the Committee cannot simply stop at Primary Criteria in general when deciding teams for the Football Championships because there are simply not enough games played to allow such a low number of statistics to control the selection.  Stated differently, Secondary Criteria are going to apply just as much and as quickly as Primary Criteria.  In a sport like basketball, in which 30+ games are generally played, the Primary Criteria/Secondary Criteria hierarchy can work.  However, in football, his belief is that they need to enter into a full discussion immediately, even weighing criteria like scores and some subjective standards when looking at Pool B and Pool C teams.  This would explain the treatment of Husson and SJF in the Regional Rankings thus far.

Here is the full post from Frank.

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4728.msg976152#msg976152

good stuff as usual gordon...would love to see the final bubble teams that didnt make it and where dvc fell and their thoughts behind that. imho that would give a lot of insight to his comments of ooc scheduling and the weight it carries. at that point teams would know how difficult of ooc scheduling to do and where it rank at seasons end. hence why so many divI-A hoops teams play difficult schedules now as teams are rewarded for playing top 10 teams.

[TheApprentice]

Hey KingSting,

Re: "front-runner"
Front runner? Just because you've been a front-runner since we'll say 2003 (if you've even been one for that long?) I really don't think it has been that hard to back DelVal, considering they've been outstanding in the past 5 seasons. I really don't find it neccesary to call me one, simply because I haven't been posting on d3football.com message boards. This really doesn't show who is a "true fan" ..... I stated facts and opinion...which I am allowed to do on here. I have been a Lycoming football fan ever since being introduced to it in 2000. I am not a "front-runner" although your weak assessments do not phase me, I am interested in putting your shallow comment to rest. Have you always been proud of your Aggies (which maybe you have been) or just since maybe around 2003? I agree however, you are entitled 100% to your opinion...but with all due respect to you KingSting, your "humble opinion" of DVC would win 7 out of 10 games against Lyco....is totally irrelevant in what matters....and what matters is the MAC automatic birth to the NCAA D-III Playoffs goes to......Lycoming College.

Delaware Valley Football
1999 (2-8, 2-7 MAC)
2000 (3-7, 3-6 MAC)
2001 (3-7, 2-7 MAC)
2002 (2-8, 1-8 MAC

To real DVC fans, I appreciate your teams success against Albright, and I do agree that DelVal has come to be a perenial powerhouse in the MAC and my hat is off to the program and  how far they have come. Once again, my earlier comments to PBR were simply a stand for Lycoming and what they've overcome in their rise back to the top of the MAC.

[Lyco bleeds BLUE and GOLD]

Hello all,

I would like to personally congratulate Lycoming on there MAC Championship, as well as DVC for there strong surge this year in tieing Lyco, as well as Albright.

As far as all this What if talk... What happens on the field any given saturday in the mac happens. there is nothing that can be done about it someone wins and someone loses. I personally have supported all mac teams in the playoff runs the past 10+ years. I think some o these Lyco Dvc battle are just absurd i understand your passion for the programs. But what happened happened end of story.

Thanks to all...


Go Warriors!

[G-manWU]

First up, my original post from Saturday evening dose not seem to have made it on here, so I will again offer my congrats to Lycoming and their fans on a well-deserved championship run. Best wishes in the NCAAs and enjoy the trip, as a playoff overnighter is one of the true treats of D3 football. Also congrats to Albright and DVC on the co-championship and best wishes in the ECAC games- the ECACs can be a true confidence booster and program-builder if the team take advantage of the opportunity.

Now, I have had quite a laugh over the last few days seeing this little debate between the Lyco and DVC crowds over who would have beaten who in what weather and who has the better team at the end of the day. Coming from a fan outside of either school who tasted two NCAA appearences during my stint in working in the league, please allow for my take.....

When the MAC season kicks off, we are now able to crown a true champion because all eight teams play head-to-head and therefore there is a tiebreaker for any matchup. This was not the case as recently as 2006, when all MAC teams played 9 conference opponents on a rotating basis. In those days, as many of you will remember, you could possibly have two teams run the table in the MAC with only one automatic bid to earn- for awhile in 2004 it looked as if that would occur between DVC and Moravian, who did not meet in the regular season that year- and there were only four Pool C bids to earn!!! Now, each team gets a shot at one another, and that is the best format we can ask for in my opinion.

When it comes time to play the games, I really get a kick out of some of the factors you guys consider in how the championship is decided. In terms of weather, it would indeed be great if every game is played on a good day, but if it rains or snows, then it rains and snows for both teams and both squads need to find a way to win. In looking at both DVC and Lyco this season, I thought DVC had the better rushing attack with Matt Cook and that big O-line, while Lyco seemed to be more of a passing team- shoulden't that give the Aggies an edge in the rain, even on the road?

Then, it terms of who has the better tradition and has the edge in the series history, I refer you to my earlier posts where I note that every team in the league beings the year with a 0-0 record in conference play- style points for past championships don't count. Each team in the MAC has a chance to defeat all of their conference opponents in the quest for the MAC title, and the team that has the best record (including the head-to-head tiebreakers) gets to rightfully take home the title. This means that FDU, LVC, and DVC-with meager championship histories, have the same right to challenge for the MAC title as Widener and Lycomng and all of their tradition.

My bottom line for all of you Warrior and Aggie fans is twofold. First, Lyco and DVC both had to play in the rain- I am sure neither coach wanted it that way- and Lycoming played better that day. Both teams had their shot at each other, and Lyco earned the right to the tiebreaker in this case. Second, while I don't agree with weather as an excuse for a win/loss, the DVC fans should be just as proud as the Lyco/Widener faithful in expressign their opinions and posting up, regardless of what team has more wins or playoff appearences. I have a deep appreciation of tradition and salute the many, many great players and coaches who have established a championship tradition at Lyco. But the 2008 MAC title was won by the 2008 Lycoming Warriors- not the Warriros teams from the 70's/80's/90's. Every season is a new beginning, and this team earned the automatic bid based on this year's record.

Good luck to everyone in your games this weekend, and I look forward to seeing the results.

[PBR...]

hey gordon any word from matt levy on who dvc's ooc opponents will be next year besides kean?

[KingSting999]

2003  Del Val 38 Lyco 27
2004 Del Val 38 Lyco 27
2005 Del Val 26 Lyco 19
2006 Del Val 17 Lyco 16
2007 Del Val 31 Lyco 0 (that had to sting)

Now I understand your pain and frustration apprentice, now I understand what brought you out of the woodwork.

You are right, I haven't been an Aggie fan for long, just the four years my son has played there. These ar the only four years I really concern myself with. I am truly sorry if that doesn't meet your standards of a real fan.

2008 Lyco 10 Del Val 7 . Congratulations, you finally got that monkey off your back! Now just be careful he doesn't junp back on there next year.

As much as I hate to say it, my time on this board is coming to an end. I will stop by occasionally and check it out but doubt if I will post much. I will move on with my life as will my son and discover new ways to pass the free time I have. The Aggies will always hold a spot in my heart and I will always be a fan.

[KingSting999]

Sorry, screwed up the scores on previous post: Should read
03 - DV wins 38 -27
04 DV wins 26 -19
05 DV wins 31 -13