FB: Conference of New England

[fulbakdad]

Because Pat, I've been reading your posts and those of others.  You've said you've watched games on the internet and a couple have actually gone to some.  I watched as much of the game I could during the last couple weeks.  The MWC games are an hour later than the NESCAC games to try and get a better opinion.  This in addition to actually attending I think 6 NESCAC games during our recruiting venture and I've come to the conclusion that the NESCAC is nowhere close to be considered to the other conferances.  There has also been a poster on the NESCAC board (Iamhuge) whose son played in the Centenial League and then transfered to the NESCAC and has said from his sons reports, there is no comparison.

I will submit that the bottom feeders of the NEFC belong where they are, but a team like Salve deserves better.

Your top 25 will be flawed as long as a NESCAC team gets the same number of votes period.

that's just my opinion though.  LOL.

[Pat Coleman]

Because Pat, I've been reading your posts and those of others.  You've said you've watched games on the internet and a couple have actually gone to some.  I watched as much of the game I could during the last couple weeks.  The MWC games are an hour later than the NESCAC games to try and get a better opinion.  This in addition to actually attending I think 6 NESCAC games during our recruiting venture and I've come to the conclusion that the NESCAC is nowhere close to be considered to the other conferances.  There has also been a poster on the NESCAC board (Iamhuge) whose son played in the Centenial League and then transfered to the NESCAC and has said from his sons reports, there is no comparison.

I will submit that the bottom feeders of the NEFC belong where they are, but a team like Salve deserves better.

Your top 25 will be flawed as long as a NESCAC team gets the same number of votes period.

that's just my opinion though.  LOL.

With 239 teams in Division III, it's not at all clear Salve deserves better. Salve is pretty fairly ranked, in my opinion. Remember that Division III is twice as big as the FBS and it's twice as hard to make the Top 25. Plus, Montclair and Union are each 2-3.

I will let other posters assess whether Iamhuge has any credibility.

[fulbakdad]

Well then I'm curious.  Do you think Amherst is also in the right position?

[Pat Coleman]

Well then I'm curious.  Do you think Amherst is also in the right position?

10 votes is more than I would give them but I have no problem with an unbeaten NESCAC team getting votes. And I don't quibble about teams that are only on a few ballots.

[Jonny Utah]

Well then I'm curious.  Do you think Amherst is also in the right position?

fulbakdad,

Do you think Salve Regina could beat Amherst?  Why?

[mattvsmith]

The important question isn't whether Salve could beat Amherst. The real question is could Salve beat any of the Top 25 teams. If so, it belongs in the top 25. If not, this conversation is moot.

Frankly, I think #25 Otterbein would make Salve wish they didn't get out of bed. When I look back at Hobart 2004, when we had the run of the Liberty League, we still couldn't compete with teams in other leagues. I flew from AZ to NJ to watch the Rowan playoff game. We were lucky--LUCKY!!!---to score. Prior to seeing the gulf between conference quality, I was convinced Hobart was getting shafted in the ranks. After seeing the game and having some time to ponder its meaning (not to mention taking a little abuse on these boards) I reckon that back then Hobart was being ranked fairly.
I tell the tale because I think Salve Regina is a good team that ought to become a playoff contender someday, just not yet. It may take until 2020 to become a genuine top 25 team. That's ok. Part of the joy of watching your team become a true contender is thinking back and being amazed that a team that you thought was the best it could ever be has become better beyond your imagination. That's how I feel about Hobart, and I hope you Salve guys get to feel that, too. Give it time. Be patient. Know that your sons are now laying the foundation for the future of the program. No edifice can endure without that foundation. The current Salve team is good and they are making it possible for it to become even better. You don't need the top 25 to tell you you're sons are doing well. You don't need it to be proud of them. Just keep on doing the right things and the recognition will come without you demanding it.

[fulbakdad]

You guys put much of the weight of your pics on the competion the teams play against.  Ok Johny,  let's go with that.  Since we can't compare the teams in the NESCAC against other teams, i'll compare players.  I watched upwards of I think 6 NESCAC games during my sons jr and sr high scool year and probably as many Liberty league/Empire 8 games, along with a handful of NEFC ones.  I walked away with the feeling that the better NESCAC teams (Trinity,amherst and Williams) were good teams but played much to thier opponants level.  There were a couple of "good" players on each team but they seemed surrounded by average players.  And it was apparent there wasn't much depth.  To me the amateur viewer. 

Now I've been trying to watch as many on the webcasts as I can.  There are a number of players from my sons Prep School league that are playing.  And the success IVe seen them have in NESCAC loooks to me to be above what I would have predicted from thier hs performance.

And what do you base your views Johny?

[fulbakdad]

Rev, just to re state this, my son doesn't play for Salve.  He plays in the midwest Conferance

[Jonny Utah]

You guys put much of the weight of your pics on the competion the teams play against.  Ok Johny,  let's go with that.  Since we can't compare the teams in the NESCAC against other teams, i'll compare players.  I watched upwards of I think 6 NESCAC games during my sons jr and sr high scool year and probably as many Liberty league/Empire 8 games, along with a handful of NEFC ones.  I walked away with the feeling that the better NESCAC teams (Trinity,amherst and Williams) were good teams but played much to thier opponants level.  There were a couple of "good" players on each team but they seemed surrounded by average players.  And it was apparent there wasn't much depth.  To me the amateur viewer. 

Now I've been trying to watch as many on the webcasts as I can.  There are a number of players from my sons Prep School league that are playing.  And the success IVe seen them have in NESCAC loooks to me to be above what I would have predicted from thier hs performance.

And what do you base your views Johny?

I base them on the same things you base them on.  I just don't think it is that laughable that Amherst gets ranked over Salve Regina.  You could argue each way, but I don't think it is laughable.

[mattvsmith]

Rev, just to re state this, my son doesn't play for Salve.  He plays in the midwest Conferance

If that's the case, then why are you so bent about Salve's rank? Seems like a lot of energy wasted on something for which you have no skin in the game. Let the Salve guys handle it themselves if they want to. And if nobody from Salve wants to make the case, why pick it up for them?
Doesn't make much sense. I'll end my participation here since this has now really proven to be an exercise in shaking one's ketchup bottle.

[frank uible]

Rev, touching that ketchup bottle imagery is hereby declined.

[Frank Rossi]

I will agree that Salve in the poll is probably a big underlay currently.  The pure size they have on the line and the overall talent is such that this team could go 11-0 and beat a first-round opponent in the playoffs.  Will they succeed in this?  I don't know -- funny things happen (Hobart can attest last year in the RPI game).  However, they have the ability and are currently plowing through opponents.  Truth be told, based on my assessment (some of which is first-person), I have them at #21, which is the highest I've placed any NEFC team in my three years as a pollster.  So, that means not everyone is giving them a look, especially voters outside the East (that's a guess, but it tends to happen like that). I think if the team moves to 7-0, you'll see a lot more action for Salve in the poll.

[dlippiel]

I will agree that Salve in the poll is probably a big underlay currently.  The pure size they have on the line and the overall talent is such that this team could go 11-0 and beat a first-round opponent in the playoffs.  Will they succeed in this?  I don't know -- funny things happen (Hobart can attest last year in the RPI game).  However, they have the ability and are currently plowing through opponents.  Truth be told, based on my assessment (some of which is first-person), I have them at #21, which is the highest I've placed any NEFC team in my three years as a pollster.  So, that means not everyone is giving them a look, especially voters outside the East (that's a guess, but it tends to happen like that). I think if the team moves to 7-0, you'll see a lot more action for Salve in the poll.

dlip can kind of piggy back on this. dlip has a top 25 in' poll but just not one he submits to anyone besides his wife...O.K. probably not most creative and/or appropriate joke.

Having seen Salve first hand as well dlip really does think this is quite a good football team. "Oh well dlip it's only because they beat Union that you are saying this." Horse****, dlip does not yet believe this is a clear top 25 team but the potential is there. Listen, he believes they could beat almost anyone in the East this year. Salisbury would beat them, so would SJF and Bart, but looking at those three teams they are all in the top 15. Plus dlip thinks the Seahawks wouldn't defeat #18 Widener's either. But in dlip's mind they do deserve a place in the East Region poll ranging anywhere from 5th to 10th. Which seemingly, in dlip's mind, could place them towards to bottom of the top 25 (or close to it). We all know the NEFC is not a strong conference but that does not mean the conference is not capable of producing a team that deserves some talk on a national level; see that [/color] PURPLE DRINK from a few years back.

Basically dlip feels they are right where they should be as of now and clearly, like Frank is elduing to, may be rising higher if they keep handeling their buisness.

Honestly fulback let's give Pat and the boys a break. With the resources they have at their disposal, personal lives, jobs, and more dlip feels they do a ****in awesome job with the poll. Nothing they put out is laughable. For laughable rankings wait for the NCAA to release their regional rankings, that **** is laughable. Also please try not to disturb the NESCAC schools. Nothing is worse then disrupting afternoon tea and crumpets with the men.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

W&J may not be in the conference, but please keep the team, players, coaches, student body, and especially the player's family in mind during this horrible time: http://www.d3football.com/notables/2012/10/washington-and-jefferson-player-dies

[Yanks 99]

I am not really sure what the issue is with Salve.  We all recognize that they are doing well this season...we have all recognized that unlike any other team in the NEFC that they are actually trying to schedule non-NEFC or ECFC opponents.  This year, they finally broke through and beat two traditionally good teams in Union and Montclair (who both are, unfortunately for Salve, having what is considered a down year at this point for these teams).  Salve is getting votes and are ranked 8th in the eastern region fan poll...and if you actually add up the vote totals in D3 Top 25 poll, you will find that you are "ranked" as tied for the 35th best team in the country out of 239 teams.  How in the world is this team...a team that is looking at only it's third winning season in the past 12 years...a team that has never finished higher then third in the NEFC Boyd Division over the past 11+ seasons...a team who may be 4-4 the past five seasons (including this one) against non-NEFC or ECFC teams, but is a terrible 20-13 against NEFC teams during this same time frame (name me one other regular top-25 team that would have 13 league losses in the past five seasons playing in the NEFC)...getting screwed or not recognized?

The reality is, we should all be a bit more suspect of Salve for the remainder of the season.  What game are we supposed to watch or look at for the remainder of the regular season that will give anyone any indication of how strong they are, or how prepared they will be for the playoffs?  MIT (2-2)?  Curry (2-3) or Plymouth State (2-3)?  Or the terrifying teams of Mass-Dartmouth (1-4) and Nichols (0-5)?

Do I think that Salve can cause some noise this year in the playoffs?  Sure...they really do seem to be better this season and could absolutely surprise a "better" team if they don't come prepared to play...but to pretend that they are being slighted in the least in terms of where they "deserve" to be ranked NATIONALLY is ridiculous...