FB: Conference of New England

[AUKaz00]

Do I think that Salve can cause some noise this year in the playoffs?  Sure...they really do seem to be better this season and could absolutely surprise a "better" team if they don't come prepared to play...but to pretend that they are being slighted in the least in terms of where they "deserve" to be ranked NATIONALLY is ridiculous...

But they have the longest current win streak in the D3!

[ExTartanPlayer]

Do I think that Salve can cause some noise this year in the playoffs?  Sure...they really do seem to be better this season and could absolutely surprise a "better" team if they don't come prepared to play...but to pretend that they are being slighted in the least in terms of where they "deserve" to be ranked NATIONALLY is ridiculous...

Totally agree.  Actually, 95% agree - I'm not a big fan of mentioning things from more than 5 years ago to evaluate the strength of a team in the current season - although I do think that more recent history (4-5 years, which would include mostly current coaches and players) is relevant, such as the fact that Salve didn't win the NEFC last year.

Salve has done what they can control this season - scheduled outside the NEFC/ECFC and beaten a couple of good programs.  But to earn a NATIONAL ranking requires an awful lot more than that - a playoff win, or a win over another playoff-caliber team, has to happen at some point to get yourself into the top 25 discussion.  Unfortunately, given the way this season has unfolded, the wins over Union and Montclair don't really qualify as such.  Neither is even close to a top-25 team at this point, and Salve did WIN the games, but they didn't exactly blow the doors off either team.

That's not "penalizing" Salve for Union/Montclair's struggles, although some might interpret it that way; it's a realistic assessment of what those wins actually mean.  Look at this from another angle: if a lower-rung NJAC or E8 program - say, Frostburg State or Western Connecticut - had opened the season with close wins over Union and Montclair State, would you be beating the drum for them to get a top 25 ranking?  Probably not.

Because of the limited inter-conference play in Division III, unfortunately, we really HAVE to include preconceptions about certain conferences based on past playoff success and showings against quality opponents.  While Salve is to be commended for their improvement over the last few years...they didn't even win the NEFC last year.  What tangible evidence do we have that they've climbed from that level all the way up to top 25 teams?  None.  If Union or Montclair State were 4-1, then I might see such an argument.

Curry 2007-08 is, in my mind, the ONLY time we should have ever been discussing an NEFC team as a borderline top-25 team.  Even there, I don't really think they were in the Top 25 teams in the country, but you could at least make a case that winning playoff games in two consecutive seasons against E8 teams had garnered some measure of respect.  The body of evidence from the last three seasons does not suggest that even the NEFC's top team is a Top 25 program.

[lewdogg11]

I don't get why this whole Top 25 thing doesn't ever seem to resonate with some individuals rooting for NEFC teams.  Be a superfan, cheer cheer cheer, but science is science.  Results are results.  Salve is great right now amongst mediocre competition.  They are doing the right things as a program and everyone recognizes that.  If they win out, they are definitely worthy of a playoff spot.  If they win there, they probably are worthy of a 22-25 ranking.  But if they make the playoff field(of 32) and lose, then I would see them in the 30-40 range.

[Yanks 99]

I don't get why this whole Top 25 thing doesn't ever seem to resonate with some individuals rooting for NEFC teams.  Be a superfan, cheer cheer cheer, but science is science.  Results are results.  Salve is great right now amongst mediocre competition.  They are doing the right things as a program and everyone recognizes that.  If they win out, they are definitely worthy of a playoff spot.  If they win there, they probably are worthy of a 22-25 ranking.  But if they make the playoff field(of 32) and lose, then I would see them in the 30-40 range.

Agreed...and like I stated before...if they are going off the number or votes for the D3 Top 25...they can look at themselves in the mirror and say "hey look...the D3 football poll has us ranked as the 35th best team in the country".  I am not sure at all how that is a slight.

[Yanks 99]

Do I think that Salve can cause some noise this year in the playoffs?  Sure...they really do seem to be better this season and could absolutely surprise a "better" team if they don't come prepared to play...but to pretend that they are being slighted in the least in terms of where they "deserve" to be ranked NATIONALLY is ridiculous...

Totally agree.  Actually, 95% agree - I'm not a big fan of mentioning things from more than 5 years ago to evaluate the strength of a team in the current season - although I do think that more recent history (4-5 years, which would include mostly current coaches and players) is relevant, such as the fact that Salve didn't win the NEFC last year.

I normally completely agree with the notion to stay within a 4-5 year window on specific issues.  The only reason I went out to 11-12 seasons on one of my comments was to show that there wasn't this long, sustained national success absent the last 4-5 seasons (ie...7 seasons of great football, followed by one or two years of mediocre football, then the last few years of relative success).

[Bombers798891]

.

That's not "penalizing" Salve for Union/Montclair's struggles, although some might interpret it that way; it's a realistic assessment of what those wins actually mean.  Look at this from another angle: if a lower-rung NJAC or E8 program - say, Frostburg State or Western Connecticut - had opened the season with close wins over Union and Montclair State, would you be beating the drum for them to get a top 25 ranking?  Probably not.

That bolded point is absolutely true, and people misinterpret that all the time. Well-stated. And your second point is valid too. Ithaca's a lower-rung E8 team (or was, coming into the season) and is currently 4-0. Given that their OOC schedule includes Union, and that their conference is much stronger, they could probably argue their 4-0 is as (or more) impressive than Salve's, and no one seems outraged that they're not included (albeit receiving votes).

That said, all Salve can do at this point is win the games put in front of them, and let the rest sort itself out. Kudos to them for having done so

[dlippiel]

Dlip thinks the horse is now been more than beaten but ****ing throttled! There is no way Salve's current ranking a slight period. Really the only saying and/or impkying that was Fulbackdad and he has been quite as of late.

[ExTartanPlayer]

But dlip, it's a lot of fun for us to take turns typing articulate paragraphs making a point that we all agree on using slightly different wording, then giving each other positive karma for doing so.  Can I get a +K, anyone?

[mattvsmith]

But dlip, it's a lot of fun for us to take turns typing articulate paragraphs making a point that we all agree on using slightly different wording, then giving each other positive karma for doing so.  Can I get a +K, anyone?

You've received positive karma for that discussion? No +K for me (or if there was, smiting negated it). How did I miss out on the luvfest?

[fulbakdad]

anyone now feel funny giving Amherst the same number of top 25 votes as Salve?

Get that horse up on his feet. I've got pleny of lashes left to give!

lol

[fulbakdad]

Oh and Roll Gulls!

LOL

[mattvsmith]

anyone now feel funny giving Amherst the same number of top 25 votes as Salve?

Get that horse up on his feet. I've got pleny of lashes left to give!

lol

I like you, fulbackdad. You can take a joke and make a joke. A few guys here can dish it out but can't take it. I'm glad you are not one of the touchy ones.

It will be interesting to see what happens. Salve really put the screws to UM-Dartmouth. I'm not sure it's enough to put them over the bar into #25 but anyone would be a fool not to respect their program. My guess is that by the end of the season they will be ranked and have a playoff berth.

[dlippiel]

If they keep winning then they rightfully should be. Dlip would like to see that happen.

[Jonny Utah]

anyone now feel funny giving Amherst the same number of top 25 votes as Salve?

Get that horse up on his feet. I've got pleny of lashes left to give!

lol

Watch middlebury the same amount of votes now.

I was at the Mt Ida/Ana Maria game yesterday.  If mt. Ida can find a way to keep their players eligible each year, they could be a surprise program down the road.  Only 8 seniors on the team with some good athletes on offense.  Decent quarterback from the buffalo area as well.

[fulbakdad]

Hey,

Now after all that, I'm still +kless!

Actually I'm wiped out.  My sons team, Lake Forest College, beat Illinois College yesterday in a down to the wire finish for Homecoming.  Just rubbing the scotch out of my eyes now!

Crazy week out here.