FB: Conference of New England

[Jonny Utah]

There's another consideration here: yes, MIT is committed to football, but there are 32 or so other varsity sports (not to mention endless intramurals), and shifting too much around to accommodate football (particularly if it's just for the sake of the tournament, with no guarantee that we'd ever host anyway) would run counter to the spirit of MIT and be a very unpopular decision.

Yea, but you can use a nice stadium for lots of other sports too.

[rlk]

There's another consideration here: yes, MIT is committed to football, but there are 32 or so other varsity sports (not to mention endless intramurals), and shifting too much around to accommodate football (particularly if it's just for the sake of the tournament, with no guarantee that we'd ever host anyway) would run counter to the spirit of MIT and be a very unpopular decision.

Yea, but you can use a nice stadium for lots of other sports too.

The facility is already perfectly good for track&field and soccer.  It abuts the lacrosse field (which looks like it's too big to wrap a regulation track around), which itself abuts a number of tennis courts.  On the side, it abuts the baseball field, which itself abuts the softball field, football practice field, and a number of other playinig fields (see https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3570162,-71.0987114,361m/data=!3m1!1e3) which are heavily used for IM.  Yes, I'm sure anyone who looks at it can see other potential possibilities, but those would involve uprooting at a minimum most of the outdoor athletic facilities.

The upshot is that unless MIT wants to rearchitect west campus, which I doubt, the footprint is more or less frozen.

[Jonny Utah]

There's another consideration here: yes, MIT is committed to football, but there are 32 or so other varsity sports (not to mention endless intramurals), and shifting too much around to accommodate football (particularly if it's just for the sake of the tournament, with no guarantee that we'd ever host anyway) would run counter to the spirit of MIT and be a very unpopular decision.

Yea, but you can use a nice stadium for lots of other sports too.

The facility is already perfectly good for track&field and soccer.  It abuts the lacrosse field (which looks like it's too big to wrap a regulation track around), which itself abuts a number of tennis courts.  On the side, it abuts the baseball field, which itself abuts the softball field, football practice field, and a number of other playinig fields (see https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3570162,-71.0987114,361m/data=!3m1!1e3) which are heavily used for IM.  Yes, I'm sure anyone who looks at it can see other potential possibilities, but those would involve uprooting at a minimum most of the outdoor athletic facilities.

The upshot is that unless MIT wants to rearchitect west campus, which I doubt, the footprint is more or less frozen.

It's tight, but it can be done.  There are plenty of small colleges with less resources than MIT has which are doing some great improvements with their facilities.  Look what Harvard has done in the last 10-15 years.  They have a little more room in Brighton, but just a nicer press box can help things.

[ITH radio]

So Duey got that one wrong. Frank asked the MIT AD and she responded that MIT did apply to host. Apparently their seating area while older, has been "grandfathered in" with regards to NCAA / standard expectations for hosting.

Perhaps the issue with selection (or lack thereof) was the fact that MIT did "not have restrooms on-site at the stadium venue, [no] ADA accessibility, and limited seating if you compare [MIT] to Husson."

Ms. Soriero's response to Frank's question (which was "we were just hoping to clarify officially [that MIT didn't file to host] so that rumors and Twitter activity can be eliminated concerning this question") is as follows:

Frank –

Thank you for the opportunity to respond to these rumors.  Let me state – MIT did apply to host this contest. We knew that given the current condition of our seating area and the need for renovations, we would not likely get chosen, but wanted to give our program the chance to play at home, if our assumptions were incorrect.    Our seating area is old and has been "grandfathered in" regarding some of the standard expectations for hosting events of this type.  We do not have restrooms on-site I the stadium venue,  we have no ADA accessibility, and limited seating if you compare us to Husson. 

Below is  the confirmation of our submittal:

Your proposed budget for hosting the First Round of the 2014-15 Division III Football championship has been received by the NCAA. You can print or view your budget at http://championships.ncaa.org. If you need to make any changes, please contact the administrator(s) of your championship listed below.

I would be more than willing to explain this to anyone who inquires and appreciate the opportunity to respond to these rumors.   Please respectfully correct  Director Naatz.


Thanks!

Julie Soriero
Director of Athletics and Department Head - DAPER

[Pat Coleman]

We confirmed with Duey Naatz that MIT didn't file to host, hence they are on the road and they matched up these teams b/c of geo proximity.

www.blogtalkradio.com/ith/2014/11/17/in-the-huddlle--liberty-league-football-talk-show

FF to 30 mins and you'll hear this ? answered

Well, I talked to the Athletic Director, and they did file.  But Husson's facilities were considered superior.

Not that Husson's facilities were considered superior, but that MIT's were considered inadequate. The NCAA doesn't give a lower seed a home game unless the higher seed's field cannot host.

[GoTech73]

We confirmed with Duey Naatz that MIT didn't file to host, hence they are on the road and they matched up these teams b/c of geo proximity.

www.blogtalkradio.com/ith/2014/11/17/in-the-huddlle--liberty-league-football-talk-show

FF to 30 mins and you'll hear this ? answered

Well, I talked to the Athletic Director, and they did file.  But Husson's facilities were considered superior.

Not that Husson's facilities were considered superior, but that MIT's were considered inadequate. The NCAA doesn't give a lower seed a home game unless the higher seed's field cannot host.

Who would make the call on whether a facility is adequate? Since the committee chairman had the wrong information, I'm assuming it's not him? Just seems really weird that he would think MIT didn't apply, and not know that they were ruled inadequate.

In terms of improvements, it is something that has been in the works for years. When I was still a player (pre-2010) I remember seeing project renderings on the same footprint. Wcrosby can confirm, there are still ongoing plans. However, as Ms. Soriero mentioned to ITHradio, the facility has been grandfathered in on ADA compliance and no bathrooms. Touching the stadium at all invalidates that grandfathering, which drove the cost of the project larger than the budget. Fundraising efforts have been directed toward endowing a full time Assistant Coach, as right now Coach Chad is the only full time coach in the program.

As rlk mentioned, giving any appearance of preferential treatment to football would cause issues at MIT from a culture standpoint (and I don't even think that's a bad thing), and the current stadium appears to be suitable for other sports - the 1st round of the Women's Soccer tournament was hosted there just this past weekend.

All in all, MIT's endowment goes to academics and research, and DAPER's small budget is (rightfully) evenly distributed. Thus, fundraising is the only answer (Bob and Eveline Roberts donated the large sum to build the turf field in the summer of '08), and while this is a priority, it hasn't made it to the top yet. To be honest, I hope the correct word gets out, as I think this reality, combined with the exciting season, could in fact prompt some gifts.

And thanks to all the forum vets here for putting up with us super- (over-?) excited playoff first-timers. We're just having a whole lot of fun right now and it can be hard to hold those emotions in sometimes

[Pat Coleman]

We confirmed with Duey Naatz that MIT didn't file to host, hence they are on the road and they matched up these teams b/c of geo proximity.

www.blogtalkradio.com/ith/2014/11/17/in-the-huddlle--liberty-league-football-talk-show

FF to 30 mins and you'll hear this ? answered

Well, I talked to the Athletic Director, and they did file.  But Husson's facilities were considered superior.

Not that Husson's facilities were considered superior, but that MIT's were considered inadequate. The NCAA doesn't give a lower seed a home game unless the higher seed's field cannot host.

Who would make the call on whether a facility is adequate? Since the committee chairman had the wrong information, I'm assuming it's not him? Just seems really weird that he would think MIT didn't apply, and not know that they were ruled inadequate.

I would guess it is determined by the paperwork at the NCAA office, perhaps with the input of coaches on the regional committee. They may have conferred with the soccer committee as well. I don't have a lot of visibility into that process but we've only had a few instances where a facility has been deemed inadequate and the ones that I have seen, I agreed with. For example, Carthage had a beautiful stadium but hadn't yet improved its press box and they were then sent on the road for three rounds about a decade ago.

Honestly, it doesn't necessarily matter to the chair why the school can't host. He just needs to know when constructing the bracket that a specific school can't be at home; whether it's a lack of paperwork or an insufficient facility, it's the same box that gets checked for the committee.

I haven't been to a soccer playoff game in more than a decade but football has some pretty specific requirements in terms of minimum seating because of the number of game day personnel required, plus media, an NCAA observer, game official, etc. If you can't seat everyone needed, then you're not going to host. Mass-Dartmouth didn't host in 2002 because of that either, and we understand Framingham State was supposed to host in 2012 but couldn't.

Do please enjoy the playoffs and don't assume the NCAA has it out for MIT. I can't imagine the NCAA knowing enough about specific schools to have a vendetta.

[GoTech73]

We confirmed with Duey Naatz that MIT didn't file to host, hence they are on the road and they matched up these teams b/c of geo proximity.

www.blogtalkradio.com/ith/2014/11/17/in-the-huddlle--liberty-league-football-talk-show

FF to 30 mins and you'll hear this ? answered

Well, I talked to the Athletic Director, and they did file.  But Husson's facilities were considered superior.

Not that Husson's facilities were considered superior, but that MIT's were considered inadequate. The NCAA doesn't give a lower seed a home game unless the higher seed's field cannot host.

Who would make the call on whether a facility is adequate? Since the committee chairman had the wrong information, I'm assuming it's not him? Just seems really weird that he would think MIT didn't apply, and not know that they were ruled inadequate.

I would guess it is determined by the paperwork at the NCAA office, perhaps with the input of coaches on the regional committee. They may have conferred with the soccer committee as well. I don't have a lot of visibility into that process but we've only had a few instances where a facility has been deemed inadequate and the ones that I have seen, I agreed with. For example, Carthage had a beautiful stadium but hadn't yet improved its press box and they were then sent on the road for three rounds about a decade ago.

Honestly, it doesn't necessarily matter to the chair why the school can't host. He just needs to know when constructing the bracket that a specific school can't be at home; whether it's a lack of paperwork or an insufficient facility, it's the same box that gets checked for the committee.

I haven't been to a soccer playoff game in more than a decade but football has some pretty specific requirements in terms of minimum seating because of the number of game day personnel required, plus media, an NCAA observer, game official, etc. If you can't seat everyone needed, then you're not going to host. Mass-Dartmouth didn't host in 2002 because of that either, and we understand Framingham State was supposed to host in 2012 but couldn't.

Do please enjoy the playoffs and don't assume the NCAA has it out for MIT. I can't imagine the NCAA knowing enough about specific schools to have a vendetta.

Oh I definitely don't think the NCAA has it out for us - just looking to understand the process, and I know this is the best place to have a shot doing so. Thanks for sharing your insights, Pat!

Interesting that you brought up Carthage as well - I was with one of my MIT teammates' this weekend whose brother played on that Carthage team, and he was pretty sure MIT *wouldn't* be able to host because of that, so I wasn't terribly surprised yesterday. We'll just take the show on the road and get to see the sights in Bangor!

[wcrosby]

We confirmed with Duey Naatz that MIT didn't file to host, hence they are on the road and they matched up these teams b/c of geo proximity.

www.blogtalkradio.com/ith/2014/11/17/in-the-huddlle--liberty-league-football-talk-show

FF to 30 mins and you'll hear this ? answered

Well, I talked to the Athletic Director, and they did file.  But Husson's facilities were considered superior.

Not that Husson's facilities were considered superior, but that MIT's were considered inadequate. The NCAA doesn't give a lower seed a home game unless the higher seed's field cannot host.

Who would make the call on whether a facility is adequate? Since the committee chairman had the wrong information, I'm assuming it's not him? Just seems really weird that he would think MIT didn't apply, and not know that they were ruled inadequate.

I would guess it is determined by the paperwork at the NCAA office, perhaps with the input of coaches on the regional committee. They may have conferred with the soccer committee as well. I don't have a lot of visibility into that process but we've only had a few instances where a facility has been deemed inadequate and the ones that I have seen, I agreed with. For example, Carthage had a beautiful stadium but hadn't yet improved its press box and they were then sent on the road for three rounds about a decade ago.

Honestly, it doesn't necessarily matter to the chair why the school can't host. He just needs to know when constructing the bracket that a specific school can't be at home; whether it's a lack of paperwork or an insufficient facility, it's the same box that gets checked for the committee.

I haven't been to a soccer playoff game in more than a decade but football has some pretty specific requirements in terms of minimum seating because of the number of game day personnel required, plus media, an NCAA observer, game official, etc. If you can't seat everyone needed, then you're not going to host. Mass-Dartmouth didn't host in 2002 because of that either, and we understand Framingham State was supposed to host in 2012 but couldn't.

Do please enjoy the playoffs and don't assume the NCAA has it out for MIT. I can't imagine the NCAA knowing enough about specific schools to have a vendetta.

Gee, if UMass Dartmouth couldn't host, no wonder we couldn't.  Their facility is a Taj Mahal next to ours.

[pg04]

This is certainly disappointing for a team to not be able to host. I recall when Brockport couldn't host due to bad field conditions after the previous week's playoff game. Now, luckily the game was just pushed to another location nearby (The University of Rochester). Was there any possibility of a closer field or do they just not consider that in the first round? 

[rlk]

As rlk mentioned, giving any appearance of preferential treatment to football would cause issues at MIT from a culture standpoint (and I don't even think that's a bad thing), and the current stadium appears to be suitable for other sports - the 1st round of the Women's Soccer tournament was hosted there just this past weekend.

All in all, MIT's endowment goes to academics and research, and DAPER's small budget is (rightfully) evenly distributed. Thus, fundraising is the only answer (Bob and Eveline Roberts donated the large sum to build the turf field in the summer of '08), and while this is a priority, it hasn't made it to the top yet. To be honest, I hope the correct word gets out, as I think this reality, combined with the exciting season, could in fact prompt some gifts.

And thanks to all the forum vets here for putting up with us super- (over-?) excited playoff first-timers. We're just having a whole lot of fun right now and it can be hard to hold those emotions in sometimes

(I've been around here, and more so on the NEWMAC men's basketball board, for a while, so welcome fellow Engineers!)

I don't know offhand what DAPER's (Department of Athletics, Physical Education, and Recreation) budget is, but I'm sure it's not terribly large -- surely not in proportion to the demands on the department. Ultimately, DAPER's goal is to serve the MIT community as a whole, including *all* of the varsity programs and intramurals.

I was basketball team manager in my day (let's just say I'm slow and can't jump -- 6'5" but could never dunk more than a volleyball, and more usually a tennis ball) and I've been enjoying the success of the program lately.  I made the trip to Salem for the basketball Final Four two years ago, and what an experience it was.  Ran into a few friends from my day, and met Jimmy Bartolotta (who was D3 National Player of the Year among other things, not least of which being a really good guy).  I branched out to photographing football this year (I hoped to make some home games last year, but schedules clashed), and it's the same kind of experience.

But I agree with GoTech73 that giving preferential treatment of the kind suggested to any sport would be completely out of character for MIT.  MIT's remarkably egalitarian in a lot of ways inside -- meritocratic, yes, but you don't get any preference because of who you are.  It doesn't matter if you're an Institute Professor (what might be called distinguished professor elsewhere) with 2 Nobels to your name, an undergrad, team coach, janitor, or campus police officer, you're part of the MIT community (the outpouring of support for Officer Sean Collier, who was murdered by those #1 and #2 unprintables who bombed the Boston Marathon, is a testament to that -- they've established an award in his memory for the person or group exemplifiying service, and named a square for him).  That doesn't mean that you can't distinguish yourself by your accomplishments, and Coach Martinovich certainly has (as has, of course, Coach Anderson).  We take care of our own, but part of that is that nobody jumps the line by dint of public acclaim.  I don't think Justin Wallace gets any particular recognition for his football prowess in his electrical engineering and computer science (or Course VI, as we know it) classes, and I would be quite surprised indeed if he expects any.  Recognition from MIT as a whole, sure, but in context.  MIT doesn't have class rank or graduation honors, nor does it give out honorary degrees.

So maybe our football facilities aren't the spiffiest in the land.  The team, like everyone else, makes silk purses from sow's ears.  The difference is that they extract the collagen, invent a process to produce a stronger yet softer fiber than anything that came before from it from that collagen, and then design and build the equipment to turn them out in quantity -- and quality.  And then go out and buy an NFL franchise.

[GoTech73]

As rlk mentioned, giving any appearance of preferential treatment to football would cause issues at MIT from a culture standpoint (and I don't even think that's a bad thing), and the current stadium appears to be suitable for other sports - the 1st round of the Women's Soccer tournament was hosted there just this past weekend.

All in all, MIT's endowment goes to academics and research, and DAPER's small budget is (rightfully) evenly distributed. Thus, fundraising is the only answer (Bob and Eveline Roberts donated the large sum to build the turf field in the summer of '08), and while this is a priority, it hasn't made it to the top yet. To be honest, I hope the correct word gets out, as I think this reality, combined with the exciting season, could in fact prompt some gifts.

And thanks to all the forum vets here for putting up with us super- (over-?) excited playoff first-timers. We're just having a whole lot of fun right now and it can be hard to hold those emotions in sometimes

(I've been around here, and more so on the NEWMAC men's basketball board, for a while, so welcome fellow Engineers!)

...

I was basketball team manager in my day (let's just say I'm slow and can't jump -- 6'5" but could never dunk more than a volleyball, and more usually a tennis ball) and I've been enjoying the success of the program lately.  I made the trip to Salem for the basketball Final Four two years ago, and what an experience it was.  Ran into a few friends from my day, and met Jimmy Bartolotta (who was D3 National Player of the Year among other things, not least of which being a really good guy).  I branched out to photographing football this year (I hoped to make some home games last year, but schedules clashed), and it's the same kind of experience.

I've been around too, including on the NEWMAC boards...I just usually am a lurker and leave the talking there to you and HN Can't hold in my excitement this season though, especially here. I've also enjoyed observing the bball success as well - Coach Anderson was my freshman adviser and then I worked with him as an associate adviser my sophomore year. Incredible man, and I hope Coach Chad is able to build the same sustainability that Coach Anderson has manage to establish on the hardwood. My other random connection to the bball team is that when visiting the 'Tute my senior year of HS, I actually stayed with Billy Johnson and Jimmy Bartolotta. Was pretty excited to then watch him take the world by storm the next few years!

To bring it back to football - has anyone here seen Husson play this year? I'm curious how we'll match up. General consensus seems to give MIT the edge, but I haven't heard much more detail.

[jmcozenlaw]

As rlk mentioned, giving any appearance of preferential treatment to football would cause issues at MIT from a culture standpoint (and I don't even think that's a bad thing), and the current stadium appears to be suitable for other sports - the 1st round of the Women's Soccer tournament was hosted there just this past weekend.

All in all, MIT's endowment goes to academics and research, and DAPER's small budget is (rightfully) evenly distributed. Thus, fundraising is the only answer (Bob and Eveline Roberts donated the large sum to build the turf field in the summer of '08), and while this is a priority, it hasn't made it to the top yet. To be honest, I hope the correct word gets out, as I think this reality, combined with the exciting season, could in fact prompt some gifts.

And thanks to all the forum vets here for putting up with us super- (over-?) excited playoff first-timers. We're just having a whole lot of fun right now and it can be hard to hold those emotions in sometimes

(I've been around here, and more so on the NEWMAC men's basketball board, for a while, so welcome fellow Engineers!)

I don't know offhand what DAPER's (Department of Athletics, Physical Education, and Recreation) budget is, but I'm sure it's not terribly large -- surely not in proportion to the demands on the department. Ultimately, DAPER's goal is to serve the MIT community as a whole, including *all* of the varsity programs and intramurals.

I was basketball team manager in my day (let's just say I'm slow and can't jump -- 6'5" but could never dunk more than a volleyball, and more usually a tennis ball) and I've been enjoying the success of the program lately.  I made the trip to Salem for the basketball Final Four two years ago, and what an experience it was.  Ran into a few friends from my day, and met Jimmy Bartolotta (who was D3 National Player of the Year among other things, not least of which being a really good guy).  I branched out to photographing football this year (I hoped to make some home games last year, but schedules clashed), and it's the same kind of experience.

But I agree with GoTech73 that giving preferential treatment of the kind suggested to any sport would be completely out of character for MIT.  MIT's remarkably egalitarian in a lot of ways inside -- meritocratic, yes, but you don't get any preference because of who you are.  It doesn't matter if you're an Institute Professor (what might be called distinguished professor elsewhere) with 2 Nobels to your name, an undergrad, team coach, janitor, or campus police officer, you're part of the MIT community (the outpouring of support for Officer Sean Collier, who was murdered by those #1 and #2 unprintables who bombed the Boston Marathon, is a testament to that -- they've established an award in his memory for the person or group exemplifiying service, and named a square for him).  That doesn't mean that you can't distinguish yourself by your accomplishments, and Coach Martinovich certainly has (as has, of course, Coach Anderson).  We take care of our own, but part of that is that nobody jumps the line by dint of public acclaim.  I don't think Justin Wallace gets any particular recognition for his football prowess in his electrical engineering and computer science (or Course VI, as we know it) classes, and I would be quite surprised indeed if he expects any.  Recognition from MIT as a whole, sure, but in context.  MIT doesn't have class rank or graduation honors, nor does it give out honorary degrees.

So maybe our football facilities aren't the spiffiest in the land.  The team, like everyone else, makes silk purses from sow's ears.  The difference is that they extract the collagen, invent a process to produce a stronger yet softer fiber than anything that came before from it from that collagen, and then design and build the equipment to turn them out in quantity -- and quality.  And then go out and buy an NFL franchise.

rlk - Serious question from a shlub with an undergrad degree from Swarthmore. How many of the 32 NFL owners are MIT graduates?

John Thain (MIT '77) could have bought a team.............with the money he stole from Merrill Lynch. A $66,000 commode with pure gold legs and a $132,000 rug for his office.

Thank God he is the exception........and not the rule!! My buddies from MIT are super smart AND super people.

[jmcozenlaw]

My favorite NFL owner (having nothing to do with being friends)..................Steve Bisciotti of the Ravens. Came from nothing, son of Italian immigrants, Liberal Arts degree from Salisbury State University in Maryland (1982), $2.7 billion dollar net worth. The name on the piece of paper helps...........but without it, a determined person can still achieve great, great things.

Back to our regular programming

[GoTech73]

As rlk mentioned, giving any appearance of preferential treatment to football would cause issues at MIT from a culture standpoint (and I don't even think that's a bad thing), and the current stadium appears to be suitable for other sports - the 1st round of the Women's Soccer tournament was hosted there just this past weekend.

All in all, MIT's endowment goes to academics and research, and DAPER's small budget is (rightfully) evenly distributed. Thus, fundraising is the only answer (Bob and Eveline Roberts donated the large sum to build the turf field in the summer of '08), and while this is a priority, it hasn't made it to the top yet. To be honest, I hope the correct word gets out, as I think this reality, combined with the exciting season, could in fact prompt some gifts.

And thanks to all the forum vets here for putting up with us super- (over-?) excited playoff first-timers. We're just having a whole lot of fun right now and it can be hard to hold those emotions in sometimes

(I've been around here, and more so on the NEWMAC men's basketball board, for a while, so welcome fellow Engineers!)

I don't know offhand what DAPER's (Department of Athletics, Physical Education, and Recreation) budget is, but I'm sure it's not terribly large -- surely not in proportion to the demands on the department. Ultimately, DAPER's goal is to serve the MIT community as a whole, including *all* of the varsity programs and intramurals.

I was basketball team manager in my day (let's just say I'm slow and can't jump -- 6'5" but could never dunk more than a volleyball, and more usually a tennis ball) and I've been enjoying the success of the program lately.  I made the trip to Salem for the basketball Final Four two years ago, and what an experience it was.  Ran into a few friends from my day, and met Jimmy Bartolotta (who was D3 National Player of the Year among other things, not least of which being a really good guy).  I branched out to photographing football this year (I hoped to make some home games last year, but schedules clashed), and it's the same kind of experience.

But I agree with GoTech73 that giving preferential treatment of the kind suggested to any sport would be completely out of character for MIT.  MIT's remarkably egalitarian in a lot of ways inside -- meritocratic, yes, but you don't get any preference because of who you are.  It doesn't matter if you're an Institute Professor (what might be called distinguished professor elsewhere) with 2 Nobels to your name, an undergrad, team coach, janitor, or campus police officer, you're part of the MIT community (the outpouring of support for Officer Sean Collier, who was murdered by those #1 and #2 unprintables who bombed the Boston Marathon, is a testament to that -- they've established an award in his memory for the person or group exemplifiying service, and named a square for him).  That doesn't mean that you can't distinguish yourself by your accomplishments, and Coach Martinovich certainly has (as has, of course, Coach Anderson).  We take care of our own, but part of that is that nobody jumps the line by dint of public acclaim.  I don't think Justin Wallace gets any particular recognition for his football prowess in his electrical engineering and computer science (or Course VI, as we know it) classes, and I would be quite surprised indeed if he expects any.  Recognition from MIT as a whole, sure, but in context.  MIT doesn't have class rank or graduation honors, nor does it give out honorary degrees.

So maybe our football facilities aren't the spiffiest in the land.  The team, like everyone else, makes silk purses from sow's ears.  The difference is that they extract the collagen, invent a process to produce a stronger yet softer fiber than anything that came before from it from that collagen, and then design and build the equipment to turn them out in quantity -- and quality.  And then go out and buy an NFL franchise.

rlk - Serious question from a shlub with an undergrad degree from Swarthmore. How many of the 32 NFL owners are MIT graduates?

John Thain (MIT '77) could have bought a team.............with the money he stole from Merrill Lynch. A $66,000 commode with pure gold legs and a $132,000 rug for his office.

Thank God he is the exception........and not the rule!! My buddies from MIT are super smart AND super people.

Just went through the list - there actually aren't any. Though, I suppose there could be an MIT grad or two holding shares in the Packers' public ownership... :-P