Top 25 rankings

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

Basically I'm arguing that the D3football.com is accurate in ranking H-SU, C-M, and NC while also being smart in not paying attention to Ferrum or Elmhurst's undefeated records.

On the flip side, I think this chart shows that Monmouth should be getting more respect than the 2 poll votes they currently have.  They have the 6th best opp win%, and are 6th in the QoWI as well.  The last two years they've gone 8-1 in the MWC, losing only to St. Norbert.  This year they finally defeated the Green Knights.  However, I'm pretty sure the D3football.com voters aren't even respecting that seeing the MWC is 1-6 in the playoffs over the last six years.  So I can understand their hesitance.

[Pat Coleman]

Plus no Midwest Conference team has beaten a decent out-of-conference team, most choosing to waste their one non-conference chance on Macalester or Carleton.

This is crying out for a contextual QOW like I proposed in the Daily Dose over the summer.

Monmouth sits at 12.200 right now. But their opponents' opponents are not as good as those of the teams ranked ahead of them, I am quite sure.

[gordonmann]

My comment on the ATN board offers some counter evidence to the apparent Monmouth strength.

[K-Mack]

Toughest schedule in the land?

UW-Stevens Point:

Sept. 3   Hardin-Simmons    L 38-12      No. 3 overall
Sept. 17   at Linfield •    L 45-7          No. 1 overall
Sept. 24   Waldorf    W 42-13       
Oct. 1   at UW-La Crosse • *    L 24-0       No. 10 overall
Oct. 8   UW-Whitewater • *    L 44-12       No. 7 overall

Yikes. Hard to not be demoralized.

[DutchFan2004]

Sorry K-Mack

If you would have left Waldorf off you may have a point! LOL  No I agree your AD didn't do them any favors other than the Waldorf game.   

[ADL70]

Did I see DIII Top Ten (AFCA not D3) scores in the ESPN scroll?

[K-Mack]

Dutch,
I don't even know who my AD is. I have met the guy at my alma mater though, and it is not UW-SP. That was just an observation.

And I don't care if you play a girls middle school powder puff team for your fifth game, if your other four are against top 10 opponents. I doubt anyone could claim anything close. And there are some brave schedule-makers out there.

As far as the ESPN thing, I haven't seen it, but it would be long overdue. It's not hurting anyone who might have to wait another minute for their Tenn-Martin or E. Washington score ... I'd say D3 in the scroll is long overdue, at least the big games, and a 30-second or 60-second segment on game day final, even if it was all small colleges, would do wonders ... but I'm sure getting video for most of these games is a major limitation, since almost all the DI games are televised and they just cop the feed.

[Toby Taff]

K-Mack,

I don't have cable  so it's hard for me to confirm now, but I know ESPN News used to scroll some D3 scores, especially during playoffs.

[OldPhart]

Week 7 top 25: Harrumph!    I know there were arguments on the PAC board about how much W&J fell and how much Thiel gained in the polls after W&J's loss to Thiel.  Although I am a Thiel partisan, from a "respect for the PAC" standpoint  I am puzzled by W&J's drop from 6 (478 votes) in week 4 to 16 (185 votes) after a loss to an undefeated Thiel by 3 in 1 OT in week 5 while Ithaca drops from 8th (402 votes) in week 6 to no worse than 15th (229 votes) after their loss to now 2-4 Lycoming by 3 in 1 OT in week 7.  While Lycoming has made a postseason appearance in recent memory and Thiel hasn't, I would say that the last year and a half worth of games favors Thiel over Lycoming as being a challenging opponent.  Further, W&J went fairly deep into the playoffs last year and Ithaca settled for a win in the ECAC Northwest championship.  IMO Ithaca's loss to Lycoming is much more troubling than W&J's loss to Thiel.  Yes I know that both the MAC and the E8 conferences have better overall playoff records than the PAC.   Further, I know that W&J struggled with Grove City for the first half before winning convincingly.  Still, this seems to be an odd ranking where W&J drops from 15 to 16 to make way for an Ithaca team that didn't make as much noise as W&J did last season and that lost to unheralded Lycoming. 

I am not singling out any individual for my venting.  I am a relative "newbie", so I hope that wiser heads can explain this apparent anomaly. 

[K-Mack]

Yeah,
I meant to mention that. They usually kick in about quarterfinals, getting scroll-age and mentions on the big shows.

I mean, if you think about it, do you care if Grand Valley State beats Saginaw? I don't care about divisions I don't watch, but it wouldn't kill me to get a 30-second update on it (I guess TV doesn't want any opportunity for channel-changing) each week, and it would delight viewers.

Not that ESPN needs to worry about doing things better or anything. (CSTV, The Football Network, where ya at?)

K-Mack,

I don't have cable  so it's hard for me to confirm now, but I know ESPN News used to scroll some D3 scores, especially during playoffs.

[ktroutvon]

Its a conspiracy.  Haven't you seen all the postings from others about their teams.

On a more positive note, everyone who helped put Hobart in the top 25 many thanks.  If I knew your addresses I'd put you on my Christmas card list.  More seriously, I realize that they got there as much through attrition as their performance this year, but I still think they could run with teams like Wesley, Thiel, Coe, etc.  I guess we'll never know.  

Everyone who has experience with this site says that all that matters is the championship, but since many schools in different regions will never see each other some of the beauty for former/current players is too see where "experts" rate them against like schools.  The balance of power in DIII is probably more concentrated than DI so with the exception of random years (RPI in 2003 for example), this is the best we can get.  

[JT]

If they can scroll those crap D1-AA non-sch scores among the other D1 scores,  they can roll at least the top DIII scores.

[K-Mack]

As a voter,
let me address. I don't think the PAC helped itself this week, but because of the losses ahead, Thiel and W&J stayed pretty static on my ballot.

Frostburg's convincing win over PAC co-leader Thomas More was a score for the ACFC over the PAC, and could have helped Wesley and Salisbury in some voters' minds, against W&J and Thiel. The Tomcats also struggled, trailing 21-0 before coming back to win. Waynesburg isn't a bad team, and I'm never sure whether's it's a bad thing to have been trailing if you end up winning. Each team usually gets one "we struggled this week" free pass before it starts making them look inconsistent.

As far as Ithaca not dropping as far as W&J, I wouldn't read into that too much. Ithaca's loss was on the road, but W&J's opponent was better. Also, Ithaca has a big win over SJF under its belt. Still, in a poll, there are so many inter-related things, like how many other teams lost that week (or put out performances that helped people change opinions about them), how many points really separated the spots (i.e. 10 spots one week could be 200 votes, and another week it could be 125) or whatever.

As long as both drops were significant, that would satisfy me ... considering I've never once had my top 25 be the exact top 25 in the poll, in the same order ... You're allowed to disagree. Your top 25 might be different than the poll too. It's only fair, and normal.

Week 7 top 25: Harrumph!    I know there were arguments on the PAC board about how much W&J fell and how much Thiel gained in the polls after W&J's loss to Thiel.  Although I am a Thiel partisan, from a "respect for the PAC" standpoint  I am puzzled by W&J's drop from 6 (478 votes) in week 4 to 16 (185 votes) after a loss to an undefeated Thiel by 3 in 1 OT in week 5 while Ithaca drops from 8th (402 votes) in week 6 to no worse than 15th (229 votes) after their loss to now 2-4 Lycoming by 3 in 1 OT in week 7.  While Lycoming has made a postseason appearance in recent memory and Thiel hasn't, I would say that the last year and a half worth of games favors Thiel over Lycoming as being a challenging opponent.  Further, W&J went fairly deep into the playoffs last year and Ithaca settled for a win in the ECAC Northwest championship.  IMO Ithaca's loss to Lycoming is much more troubling than W&J's loss to Thiel.  Yes I know that both the MAC and the E8 conferences have better overall playoff records than the PAC.   Further, I know that W&J struggled with Grove City for the first half before winning convincingly.  Still, this seems to be an odd ranking where W&J drops from 15 to 16 to make way for an Ithaca team that didn't make as much noise as W&J did last season and that lost to unheralded Lycoming. 

I am not singling out any individual for my venting.  I am a relative "newbie", so I hope that wiser heads can explain this apparent anomaly. 

[Kilted Rat]

I think that SJU should be ranked #1 in the country because they have more wins than anyone else.

They have two wins more than Rowan and Linfield and 1 more than MUC(k) among others.


If you take this post seriously you only have your self to blame

[Ralph Turner]

Actually the Top 25 is pre-determined by a cabal of Washington-New York-Boston elitists comprised of the Tri-Lateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Rothschild Family, Karl Rove and the "kayaking friends of Nancy Pelosi."  Pat Coleman just selected 24 of his friends to serve as a front!

Teams are selected from:

Top 5:  Mount Union, top teams of the NJAC, ASC, Northwest Conference and MIAC.

Second 5: WIAC of the week, Best team in MAC, Pres AC and CCIW.   Runner-ups of ASC and/or OAC and/or Trinity

Third Five: WIAC runner-up of the week until they have 3 losses.  Runners- up MIAC and/or NWC,  East Region #2 Team, Woo/Witt/Wabash, IIAC leader, ODAC/USAC/ACFC/CC leader (any 2 of 4)

Fourth 5: WIAC #3 team until 3 losses, East Region #3, OAC #3/NCAC runner-up, CCIW #2 and  MIAC #3.

Fifth 5:  Leftovers from above and newbie/surprise team of the year.

I just wanted to simplify it for you!