Top 25 rankings

[Pat Coleman]

I don't know if your numbers lie, but they certainly aren't telling the whole story. Stout is 3-5 against the 21st-hardest schedule in the country (so says Massey, who is doing a lot more number crunching than you are). Colorado College is 3-5 against the 149th-"hardest" schedule in the country.

[pg04]

Pat,

where do you get this schedule strength info? Are you using one of the rating systems out there? 

[ADL70]

Since I kinda started this Whitworth/CMU comparison, maybe I can conclude.  When the CMU doubters pointed out the lack of "beating anyone with a winning record" as shorthand for say "not beating anyone with quality credentials", they short changed their point.  The latter is a better and more complete analysis.  As Pat said just W-L records do not tell the whole story, but those were the numbers the doubters used.

[pg04]

Since I kinda started this Whitworth/CMU comparison, maybe I can conclude.  When the CMU doubters pointed out the lack of "beating anyone with a winning record" as shorthand for say "not beating anyone with quality credentials", they short changed their point.  The latter is a better and more complete analysis.  As Pat said just W-L records do not tell the whole story, but those were the numbers the doubters used.

In the end, if you win a game in the playoffs, you will get your respect.  If not, then they were right all along.

[Pat Coleman]

against the 21st-hardest schedule in the country (so says Massey,

[pg04]

Yikes! Holy glossing over an entire line!

Sorry about that!

Basically, I wanted to see how hard Brockport's schedule actually is from according to "the numbers"...and as I suspected, pretty tough! 

[BDTartan]

Pat, sorry about the double board thing, believe me I am not about to get into the kind of debate Eh-You had you guys in over in the South Region boards.  I just wondered where Whitworth was getting with the comparable opponents W/L record that CMU wasn't.  Even in ATN on the home-page I saw it mentioned about CMU not playing a winning team.  I'd like to know how Massey rates these schedules.  Colorado College lost by two scores at (7-0) Occidental, lost by a score to Huntingtdon who is 5-4 with 3 of their losses coming to Trinity, Wesley, and Ithaca.  They also played a good Rhodes team.  I don't know.  Like you said, maybe I'm not crunching enough numbers.  Maybe I'm just a little piss-ant to you and you're the guru but I don't care.  I am happy for my brother and CMU.  This was something brought up on the UAA board and I thought it was something that could be debated.

[Pat Coleman]

Well, when you've played eight games and your opponents have each played about that many, that's around 64 games and 64 opponents to be taken into account. Any game that is interconnected tends to get taken into account in a computer ranking.

If you look at UW-Stout, you'll see they played an NAIA scholarship school and a D-II school, which is going to raise their ranking.

[BDTartan]

So what you're saying is that a team may be rewarded or punished based on how well your opponents do?  I am sure Whitworth is a good team and deserve to be ranked, but all CMU has done is beat everybody on their schedule.  I realize its not the toughest schedule, but with all due respect, what more can you ask a team to do than win?  As I said before, I'm not going to get heated over this because I am smart enough to listen to what you say.  Plus, I really feel like any poll other than the Coaches' Poll is going to have extremely bias voters and I know that the coaches do some of their own jerry-rigging in their poll, but to give credit to one team for having played no winning teams and not give credit to another for the same reason is just ridiculous.  If what I was seeing in ATN and on these boards had been about CMU's opponents strength of schedule then no problem, but the issue was clearly being stated as CMU's opponents W/L record.  I know that nothing is ever perfect, and I applaud the work you guys have done for small college athletics.  I don't know, too bad there isn't a way to come up with an independent poll where all of us here on D3 could vote.

[Eh-You]

I don't know, too bad there isn't a way to come up with an independent poll where all of us here on D3 could vote.

SHHHHH! Then I couldn't raise heck with the guru's who vote!

[BDTartan]

Yeah, I think that may be part of the problem.  Guru's may have more knowledge, but are much more set in their ways that sometimes they are blind to something new.

[pg04]

Actually, that was an idea I (and Matt from the ODAC board.... he's very involved in D3) had before (like a year and a half ago ).... to have a "Fan's" top 25...picking 25 of the posters, with 6 from each region, and then Pat as the 25th.  Maybe just make topic in this general section and go with it.  However, I have never gotten the time to take on such an undertaking!   If someone wanted to do that, I'd think it would be great.  

As for the guru's, I think they are, no matter what people think, the best ones to be making polls....they see so much more of it all than most of us

[Eh-You]

Yeah, I think that may be part of the problem.  Guru's may have more knowledge, but are much more set in their ways that sometimes they are blind to something new.

Uh OH - can't wait to hear the response to this one! Bring the thunder Pat (in case you don't remember - me and you r boys right about now)

[PA_wesleyfan]

So what you're saying is that a team may be rewarded or punished based on how well your opponents do?  I am sure Whitworth is a good team and deserve to be ranked, but all CMU has done is beat everybody on their schedule.  I realize its not the toughest schedule, but with all due respect, what more can you ask a team to do than win?  As I said before, I'm not going to get heated over this because I am smart enough to listen to what you say.  Plus, I really feel like any poll other than the Coaches' Poll is going to have extremely bias voters and I know that the coaches do some of their own jerry-rigging in their poll, but to give credit to one team for having played no winning teams and not give credit to another for the same reason is just ridiculous.  If what I was seeing in ATN and on these boards had been about CMU's opponents strength of schedule then no problem, but the issue was clearly being stated as CMU's opponents W/L record.  I know that nothing is ever perfect, and I applaud the work you guys have done for small college athletics.  I don't know, too bad there isn't a way to come up with an independent poll where all of us here on D3 could vote.

  Let everyone vote? A democracy? What a novel thought... Would never and could never work!!! There would be teams with no wins getting vote. Then again there are no DIII schools in Fla. so a loser would not win...

[pg04]

So what you're saying is that a team may be rewarded or punished based on how well your opponents do?  I am sure Whitworth is a good team and deserve to be ranked, but all CMU has done is beat everybody on their schedule.  I realize its not the toughest schedule, but with all due respect, what more can you ask a team to do than win?  As I said before, I'm not going to get heated over this because I am smart enough to listen to what you say.  Plus, I really feel like any poll other than the Coaches' Poll is going to have extremely bias voters and I know that the coaches do some of their own jerry-rigging in their poll, but to give credit to one team for having played no winning teams and not give credit to another for the same reason is just ridiculous.  If what I was seeing in ATN and on these boards had been about CMU's opponents strength of schedule then no problem, but the issue was clearly being stated as CMU's opponents W/L record.  I know that nothing is ever perfect, and I applaud the work you guys have done for small college athletics.  I don't know, too bad there isn't a way to come up with an independent poll where all of us here on D3 could vote.

  Let everyone vote? A democracy? What a novel thought... Would never and could never work!!! There would be teams with no wins getting vote. Then again there are no DIII schools in Fla. so a loser would not win...

A shot against florida! I can't believe it! I'm hurt (well not really)