Top 25 rankings

[K-Mack]

With the official D3football.com spreadsheet making its rounds this weekend, I'll be free to renounce my top 25 picks from USA Today!

Well, only some of them, Whitewater fans. 

[HScoach]

....Among the key guys gone and back, via those methods, for UW-L, I got 10 gone, six back. St. John's was 7 gone, 4 back and UWW ... Lord have mercy, if I have to run that list back again....

For comparison purposes, here's what MUC has for '07:

Offense:
     (5) All-OAC returning versus (2) All-OAC lost
     (3) other starters returning

Defense:
     (6) All-OAC returning versus (2) All-OAC lost
     (1) other starter returning

Also keep in mind this doesn't include Greg Micheli at QB since he didn't start in '06.  But as the reigning Stagg Bowl MVP, I think MUC is going to be OK there too.   

Yup, Mount is loaded for '07!

[Pat Coleman]

Yup, Mount is loaded for '07!

Wait -- you don't say. I had no idea.

[warhawkclownshow]

The only reason the MHB WW game was so close last year was because the Beav didn't play, not that WW would have won by alot but it would have been a wider margin.  He changes everything for the passing game, drop it with Wesley they are not good and would be a 2+ loss team in the WIAC.

[smedindy]

Wow, a 2+ loss team in the WIAC not good? I think the word 'good' does not mean what you think it means for 99% of D-3.

Wesley would probably have won most conferences the last couple of years.

[warhawkclownshow]

Your proly correct about wesley winning most conferences, but most of the conferences aren't all that great. I didn't mean to say wesley didn't have a good season but you don't lose like that two years in a row if your even close to the competition, in neither of the two games there was no doubt from the outset who would win.

[Pat Coleman]

You have to respect Wesley's wins over Mary Hardin-Baylor the last two years in the playoffs. That is, if you want us to respect your win over UMHB.

[smedindy]

Sometimes good teams get into bad matchups. It happens.

[K-Mack]

....Among the key guys gone and back, via those methods, for UW-L, I got 10 gone, six back. St. John's was 7 gone, 4 back and UWW ... Lord have mercy, if I have to run that list back again....

For comparison purposes, here's what MUC has for '07:

Offense:
     (5) All-OAC returning versus (2) All-OAC lost
     (3) other starters returning

Defense:
     (6) All-OAC returning versus (2) All-OAC lost
     (1) other starter returning

Also keep in mind this doesn't include Greg Micheli at QB since he didn't start in '06.  But as the reigning Stagg Bowl MVP, I think MUC is going to be OK there too.   

Yup, Mount is loaded for '07!

I think we're all well aware.

[K-Mack]

The only reason the MHB WW game was so close last year was because the Beav didn't play, not that WW would have won by alot but it would have been a wider margin.  He changes everything for the passing game, drop it with Wesley they are not good and would be a 2+ loss team in the WIAC.

I think that's too convenient an excuse, Whitewater had plenty of offense on the field that day and scored zero points. Both defenses were outstanding.

But if your point is that Whitewater would've won 10-3 or 14-3 instead of 7-3 with Beaver, that doesn't change much when you compare the three teams.

[K-Mack]

Your proly correct about wesley winning most conferences, but most of the conferences aren't all that great. I didn't mean to say wesley didn't have a good season but you don't lose like that two years in a row if your even close to the competition, in neither of the two games there was no doubt from the outset who would win.

Agreed, but that Whitewater team is in the past.

A lot of people are basically saying the Whitewater program is so much better than Wesley's that it can lose a significant portion of its top players, it's head coach and offensive coordinator and still be better by a wide margin. That's fine if you believe that and that's your point.

There's another school of thought that sees Wesley bringing back coaching continuity and 90% of its key players from the semifinal team, and we (I) have seen them beat other quality D3 teams, and judge by more than just the UWW losses.

It's certainly not cut and dried. It definitely remains to be seen how good Whitewater can be this year, and I think it's healthy for all of us to discuss it.

[footballfan413]

With the official D3football.com spreadsheet making its rounds this weekend, I'll be free to renounce my top 25 picks from USA Today!

Well, only some of them, Whitewater fans. 

Hey, I am willing to give you a second chance to correct your mistake!!!

Your proly correct about wesley winning most conferences, but most of the conferences aren't all that great. I didn't mean to say wesley didn't have a good season but you don't lose like that two years in a row if your even close to the competition, in neither of the two games there was no doubt from the outset who would win.

Agreed, but that Whitewater team is in the past.

A lot of people are basically saying the Whitewater program is so much better than Wesley's that it can lose a significant portion of its top players, it's head coach and offensive coordinator and still be better by a wide margin. That's fine if you believe that and that's your point.

There's another school of thought that sees Wesley bringing back coaching continuity and 90% of its key players from the semifinal team, and we (I) have seen them beat other quality D3 teams, and judge by more than just the UWW losses.

It's certainly not cut and dried. It definitely remains to be seen how good Whitewater can be this year, and I think it's healthy for all of us to discuss it.

This explanation is understandable to me.  Tangibles and measurable differences are the only things one has to use in the pre-season when comparing apples and oranges. I think the disconnect here with the UWW fans is two-fold.  The extreme nature of the butt whopping that the Hawks put on Welsey, not once but twice, and those close to the program are more aware of the talent level that exists in the program especially as a result of the two runs to the Stagg Bowl.  Head-to-Head competition is hard to argue with and points were still scored on Welsey well after many starters sat down. Can't blame the Hawk fans for not respecting a team that had two chances to earn it and didn't.   As you pointed out, Welsey returns 90% of their key players and that 90% didn't impress the Hawks and their fans very much.   
But as you also pointed out, not cut and dried, when UMHB is added into the mix. I believe that the brutal road trip, noisy venue as well as no Beaver and losing Travis had the biggest effect on that game for the Hawks. Looking forward to welcoming the Texas boys to Wisconsin this year. 
To me the unknown factor is how well and how quickly this years team and coaching staff come together on and off the field.  Coach Brez said in an interview last season, ( I am paraphasing right now,) that the 05/06 team was the closest team he had ever coached.  No egos, didn't matter who got it done as long as they won.  Team chemisty is the most important intangible for me this season.   Think this will just have to be a case of agreeing to disagree.  The 07 Hawks know they will have to earn respect for what they accomplish this year.  From what I hear, the lower in the polls, the more determined this team gets!!!   

[Pat Coleman]

The good news is that impressing UWW fans is not something that gets counted in the rankings.

[footballfan413]

The good news is that impressing UWW fans is not something that gets counted in the rankings.

Really good news for Welsey!   

[Pat Coleman]

Well, since you edited your post after I made mine, I don't know what has changed. However, the incessant disrespect of Wesley by UWW fans is getting old.

Sometimes good teams get into bad matchups. It happens.

Exactly. Mount Union was not 66 points better than Bridgewater in 2003, Linfield was not 52 points better than Rowan in 2004, etc. But if Team A's strengths play exactly to Team B's weaknesses, blowouts can happen. Unless Linfield was really 101 points better than Delaware Valley.