Top 25 rankings

[Pat Coleman]

Well, since you edited your post after I made mine, I don't know what has changed.

And now you RE-edited.

Let me know when you are done changing your posts so we can respond.

[footballfan413]

Well, since you edited your post after I made mine, I don't know what has changed. However, the incessant disrespect of Wesley by UWW fans is getting old.

Ya, I realized that I misunderstood your meaning at first so when I realized it, I decided to have a lighter response.  Sorry!
   

[footballfan413]

For the record, that was my first post regarding the subject of K-Macks USA rankings putting Wesley above UWW. Guess it is my last as well.      Excuse me while I look for the nearest exit now!   Have a great day, Pat   

[Ralph Turner]

... when UMHB is added into the mix. I believe that the brutal road trip, noisy venue as well as no Beaver and losing Travis had the biggest effect on that game for the Hawks. ...

413,

Is it uncommon for WIAC teams to spend the night before a regular season game on the road?

In most seasons, McMurry will spend Friday night on the road for games at Mississippi College, Louisiana College, East Texas Baptist, Texas Lutheran and Sul Ross State in conference and probably if we play a road game at Trinity or Austin College. 

[footballfan413]

... when UMHB is added into the mix. I believe that the brutal road trip, noisy venue as well as no Beaver and losing Travis had the biggest effect on that game for the Hawks. ...

413,

Is it uncommon for WIAC teams to spend the night before a regular season game on the road?

In most seasons, McMurry will spend Friday night on the road for games at Mississippi College, Louisiana College, East Texas Baptist, Texas Lutheran and Sul Ross State in conference and probably if we play a road game at Trinity or Austin College. 

Point taken, Ralph.  I'm sure many teams endure long road trips the day before games.  But this one was an extra long day thanks to an airline delay.  The team had to be up and on a bus at 5:00AM and did not get into their hotel rooms until 11:30PM that night.  Then the game the next day in the Texas heat.  Just making the point that UMHB did have the home field advantage in that game.

[Ralph Turner]

Thanks for the response, 413.

Speaking in general terms, UMHB will have the reverse trip, flying out of Austin (70 miles) or DFW (140 miles).  As for the weather, the average temperature range in late October in Belton is a high of 73 F and a low of 54 F.  It was 75 that afternoon.  (Temple, TX is nearest airport and is just 10 miles up the road.)

UMHB will be dealing with weather as well.  It is not inconceivable that the UWW game will be the coldest game they play all season.

[footballfan413]

Only 75 that day?   Sure felt alot hotter than that on the field and in the stands but I remember that it wasn't nearly as hot as it could have been.  Really enjoyed our trip to Texas.  UMHB had great fans, players and coaches and enjoyed great Bar-B-Q.  Looking forward to returning the hospitality at the Perk.

[K-Mack]

With the official D3football.com spreadsheet making its rounds this weekend, I'll be free to renounce my top 25 picks from USA Today!

Well, only some of them, Whitewater fans. 

Hey, I am willing to give you a second chance to correct your mistake!!!

Your proly correct about wesley winning most conferences, but most of the conferences aren't all that great. I didn't mean to say wesley didn't have a good season but you don't lose like that two years in a row if your even close to the competition, in neither of the two games there was no doubt from the outset who would win.

Agreed, but that Whitewater team is in the past.

A lot of people are basically saying the Whitewater program is so much better than Wesley's that it can lose a significant portion of its top players, it's head coach and offensive coordinator and still be better by a wide margin. That's fine if you believe that and that's your point.

There's another school of thought that sees Wesley bringing back coaching continuity and 90% of its key players from the semifinal team, and we (I) have seen them beat other quality D3 teams, and judge by more than just the UWW losses.

It's certainly not cut and dried. It definitely remains to be seen how good Whitewater can be this year, and I think it's healthy for all of us to discuss it.

This explanation is understandable to me.  Tangibles and measurable differences are the only things one has to use in the pre-season when comparing apples and oranges. I think the disconnect here with the UWW fans is two-fold.  The extreme nature of the butt whopping that the Hawks put on Welsey, not once but twice, and those close to the program are more aware of the talent level that exists in the program especially as a result of the two runs to the Stagg Bowl.  Head-to-Head competition is hard to argue with and points were still scored on Welsey well after many starters sat down. Can't blame the Hawk fans for not respecting a team that had two chances to earn it and didn't.   As you pointed out, Welsey returns 90% of their key players and that 90% didn't impress the Hawks and their fans very much.   
But as you also pointed out, not cut and dried, when UMHB is added into the mix. I believe that the brutal road trip, noisy venue as well as no Beaver and losing Travis had the biggest effect on that game for the Hawks. Looking forward to welcoming the Texas boys to Wisconsin this year. 
To me the unknown factor is how well and how quickly this years team and coaching staff come together on and off the field.  Coach Brez said in an interview last season, ( I am paraphasing right now,) that the 05/06 team was the closest team he had ever coached.  No egos, didn't matter who got it done as long as they won.  Team chemisty is the most important intangible for me this season.   Think this will just have to be a case of agreeing to disagree.  The 07 Hawks know they will have to earn respect for what they accomplish this year.  From what I hear, the lower in the polls, the more determined this team gets!!!   

Any team that knows what it wants I hope would use something besides polls to get motivated; but even so, 5 is still pretty high, and I wouldn't be surprised if they start out higher when the D3football.com poll comes out. I don't think our voters will rank Wesley higher either; Those scores are easy to be swayed by and hard to go against.

I definitely think there are some valid points that support both sides. Whitewater has more back than most, and yet will be breaking in a lot of new starters, a new coaching style (which could be a benefit), etc., etc.

It's probably one of those "just get into the playoffs and let's see what happens" teams, in that they'll be very good at the end of the year once a new chemistry develops.

Also, poll-wise, it's a very good year to be losing a lot as really only Mount Union, UMHB and Wesley are the most prominent top teams returning a lot of team (at least until further examination of the spreadsheet).

[footballfan413]

Thanks for the response, K-Mack.  I especially appreciate it in light of the fact that I know the subject is probably getting a little old for you. 

[K-Mack]

Sometimes good teams get into bad matchups. It happens.

Exactly. Mount Union was not 66 points better than Bridgewater in 2003, Linfield was not 52 points better than Rowan in 2004, etc. But if Team A's strengths play exactly to Team B's weaknesses, blowouts can happen. Unless Linfield was really 101 points better than Delaware Valley.

I agree with this theory to a large extent. After a certain point, a blowout can cease to become representative of the strength of the two teams playing.

I know as a poll voter I look for games in three approximate categories: 8 points or fewer and/or a game that could've gone either way in the 4th quarter, 9-20 points (close but not in doubt at the end) and 21 or more (blowout).

Not that all games with the same score are created the same, but you want to see if a team went toe-to-toe with another team, if it was a pretty solid, well-earned win or if it was hardly ever in doubt.

Blowouts can be two teams that aren't matched, but they can also happen when one team falls behind early and does some things uncharacteristic of itself to try to get back in the game, whether it be blitzing or passing or trick plays or shooting a lot of threes.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it just digs a deeper hole. (That's what was so impressive about UMHB's win at Mount Union in '04, that they never broke stride even trailing in the 4th, but I digress)

If it's the only game you have to go on, maybe really early in the season, than you have to conclude that a blowout probably matched two teams of disproportionate strength. But later in the year or in the playoffs, if you have enough other data, you might be able to determine that a 66-0 blowout was really worse than it looked and not completely representative of how the team that scored 0 would fare against other teams.

But that's just a theory, and the cool thing about sports (as opposed to many other facets of life) is that there are some absolutes, in wins and losses and final scores.

[K-Mack]

Thanks for the response, K-Mack.  I especially appreciate it in light of the fact that I know the subject is probably getting a little old for you. 

I guess it is, but I think it's also part of my role here. And although I play the part of expert, or what have  you, I learn from discussions same as I assume people learn from me.

So it's really not a problem, especially since we're keeping it on a respectful level, from poster to poster, for the most part.

[PA_wesleyfan]

Now that my baseball coaching duties are done it's back to talking football....

I don't know if I should be jumping for joy or cringing with all this Wesley talk..
The Wolverines are bringing back alot of talent but they do have to replace Warrick at QB. Shatz will fill that role if need be. If Beavers comes back that will more than take up the hole left by Shatz moving to QB. I also understand that there is a WO  tranfering from Delaware who was an all state receiver in Del. Wesley has also brought in a few new QBs one of which played for perenial Pa. state power North Penn. That and the numerous running backs should help the team jell. But all that being said Wesley has a tough Sept. schedule.
It is possible for the Wolverines to lose a game or even two and still have a big QOW rating and make the playoffs
 

[K-Mack]

Pool B is a good place to be these days. I think a solid, non-spectacular year, would get Wesley in, but you never, ever know.

I like the first (pre-ACFC) half of that schedule ... challenging games all, but the Wolverines could still start 5-0.

Let's talk about some top 25 teams out of the top 25.

Anyone you guys like to surprise this year? Let's say non-playoff teams who could get in.

Here are few to get you talking:
Kean
Bridgewater / Emory & Henry / Guilford
Averett / N.C. Wesleyan
Huntingdon
Wartburg

Wish I could think of more at the moment.

Oh, Linfield? 

[Ryan Tipps]

Here are few to get you talking:
Kean
Bridgewater / Emory & Henry / Guilford
Averett / N.C. Wesleyan
Huntingdon
Wartburg

Wish I could think of more at the moment.

Oh, Linfield? 

Can I piggyback off one you've already mentioned? 

I'm high on NC Wesleyan this year. Barring anything unforseen, they're returning all of their players from a team that was very solid in '06. They led the USA South in offense last year and were No. 2 in defense. But my favorite stat from them last year was that although they were 6-4, they lost those four games by a total of 10 points.

Though NCW beat CNU last year, this time the game is at Pomoco.......and Keith, you were at Pomoco on Sept. 9. It's not an easy place for the enemy to win at.    NCW's opening games against Wesley and Widener should be a good indicator as to where they stand.

[K-Mack]

Always feel free to piggyback off me WC.

And that could be a rather interesting triangle, since those three teams each play each other (Wesley and Widener meet on Friday, Sept. 14, the first of back-to-back Friday games for Widener. I think the second one is vs. Rowan)