Top 25 rankings

TC · July 27, 2007, 04:05:26 PM

K-Mack-

A lot of respect for the amount of effort you put into quantifying the nature of the losses--the way it was presented, I just assumed most voters felt (outside of the obvious superstars) that a loss is a loss is a loss is a loss.

I think you and I see things similarly in that St. John's is in the fortunate position of being able to replace key players so easily. If nearly any other Top 25 team graduated as much talent as SJU, they fall a lot further. But I honestly don't think any non-OAC/West team has more talent than SJU, and I can't see an argument to put any West team (besides UW-W, obviously) ahead of them. (As I open myself up to provencialism shots...)

Of course, losing Lofboom hurts a little more now that it appears SJU may also be without Craig Luberts.

K-Mack · July 27, 2007, 10:57:08 PM

Well, yeah. I didn't want to be the one to say that.

413 ... that's funny.

ADL70 · July 28, 2007, 01:24:17 PM

I'm perplexed by the ranking of Trinty (TX) six spots above Carnegie Mellon. Last season Trinity was beaten by Millsaps, who were beaten 21-0 by CMU. CMU returns 5 all region players, and Trinity none. CMU finished last year at #22.

Pat Coleman · July 28, 2007, 04:24:39 PM

Primarily because that was last year.

It's nice to note what CMU returned but don't forget to mention what CMU lost.

ADL70 · July 29, 2007, 06:09:24 PM

I'm aware that CMU has losses that are not insignificant. They lose White (G) and Lewis (S), who were 1st team All-South. They lose an All-UAA QB, but he was injured and missed most of the last half of the season. The returning QB finished the year and led the win over Millsaps. They still return 48% of their All-UAA selections (Yes, I realize all conf in a 4 team conf isn't the same as in a conf with more teams. That's why I used % not #s).

In contrast, Trinity loses its only All-South selection and returns 41% of its All-SCAC players. Seems to me Trinity loses at least as much as CMU. And it seems to me what returns is more important that what is lost. There may be injured players at Trinity that I'm not aware of who are returning or players listed as SR who still have eligibility.

Now, CMU's sched is tougher this year (3 teams with votes in the d3 poll), so 10-0 will be harder to accomplish. So I don't quarrel with them just out of the top 25, but I'm not convinced Trinity should be ranked ahead of them.

Ralph Turner · July 29, 2007, 06:49:23 PM

cwru70, in the last season that Trinity failed to win at least a share of the SCAC prior to 2006, Bill Cliinton had just defeated George HW Bush for the Presidency.

If that was a one-year thing, then the voters have given a traditional D3 power the chance to regain its swagger. Let's see how they regroup.

It should be good for CMU not to have as big a target on its back as a Top 25 would give. The first two teams above them (in the 20th-25th range) to lose will propel them into the Top 25 just on the "float up".

Ron Boerger · July 29, 2007, 08:22:11 PM

At the end of the season nobody will remember or care where a team was ranked before a single player set foot on the field.

gordonmann · July 29, 2007, 11:22:29 PM

I don't know about that. The "nobody respected us in the preseason" line gets trotted out pretty frequently by teams who go deep in the playoffs if their ranking didn't project that. I've had more than one coach or player remind me of their preseason ranking late in the year.

Of course, teams who don't get ranked highly and fall flat don't usually say, "gee, you were right - guess we weren't that good after all."

Josh Bowerman · July 30, 2007, 03:03:50 PM

If Craig Luberts is unable to play this season for St. John's, what does that loss do to the Johnnies' ranking status? Was he someone that they were counting on for serious production, or more of a role player on an already good team?

Pat Coleman · July 30, 2007, 03:15:07 PM

Luberts was being counted on for serious production, from what I can tell.

DutchFan2004 · July 30, 2007, 04:15:47 PM

Pat,

Do you think that this makes a huge difference in St Johns. If they have the other running back does he just get more carries? Would this change your vote or spot in the top 25 for the Johnnies.

ADL70 · July 30, 2007, 08:54:03 PM

Here's to CMU and Trinity each having a Top 25 calibre season, no Texas sub-regional interferes, and they meet in the playoff!!!

K-Mack · July 30, 2007, 11:02:53 PM

Quote from: cwru70 on July 30, 2007, 08:54:03 PM
Here's to CMU and Trinity each having a Top 25 calibre season, no Texas sub-regional interferes, and they meet in the playoff!!!

I agree with you about CMU in relation to Trinity. I thought it might be good to keep the Tigers on the radar. Only thing I can really think of is they got a pretty well-hyped transfer at QB(?) that might give some optimism for Trinity.

For some odd reason they play at Millsaps again.

Ron Boerger · July 30, 2007, 11:18:50 PM

Quote from: K-Mack on July 30, 2007, 11:02:53 PM

I agree with you about CMU in relation to Trinity. I thought it might be good to keep the Tigers on the radar. Only thing I can really think of is they got a pretty well-hyped transfer at QB(?) that might give some optimism for Trinity.

For some odd reason they play at Millsaps again.

SCAC had to rejigger the schedule because they went from six to eight league games thanks to the addition of Birmingham-Southern and Colorado College. So everyone has to end up with four home and away games instead of three and it just worked out that Trinity got the short end of that stick.

K-Mack · July 31, 2007, 01:02:59 AM

Thanks for the explanation.

I didn't mean to make it sound like it was actually that odd of a reason. That's quite logical, actually.