Top 25 rankings

[Ralph Turner]

smed,
And don't forget that Augie's loss was countered by BW's win, since they jumped over Wabash (and 9 others).

I noticed BW jumped ten spots.  Even after a nice win, that seems like pretty extreme movement in the polls, at least to me.  Especially given that only three teams in the top 25 lost and only two fell out of the poll all together.

The OAC is highly respected as a conference.

Perhaps it was considered a straight flip.  BWC just moved to the top of Pool C IMHO, or #1 in the North Region.   

[Pat Coleman]

They did gain six points per ballot in a week in which three teams within striking distance ahead of them lost, Wabash lost its starting quarterback in a squeaker home win and Rowan suffered by comparison on CNU's loss.

[K-Mack]

We do have all of the football Top 25s in the database, for what it's worth, unlike basketball where many polls predate the database.

News to me. I am discussing this with you now on IM, but if it's accessible and sortable, I will probably use it in ATN starting next week.

[Ralph Turner]

There are several plateaus in the Week #3 Top 25.  In the ideal Top 25, one sees 25 points separating each ranking.  However, there are several clusters of teams in this Top 25.

#3-#6 -- An ideal 3rd place team should garner 575 votes.  UWW and SJF are only 25 votes apart, when one would expect 75 votes to separate #3 and #6.  (549, 546, 533 and 524 respectively.)

There is a big drop to #7-#9.  The 72-vote difference between SJF and Wesley is second only to the drop-off between #17 and #18 (237 votes down to 166 votes).  Wesley, Central and Wheaton are very well clustered with only 38 votes (equivalent to 1 1/2 places) between #7 and #9.

#10  Capital is 66 votes behind #9 Wheaton, which may be considered the #2-#3 in the North Region.

#11-#13 (BWC, ONU and Linfield are separated by only 5 votes. (305, 304, 300.)

#14-#17 places find North Central, Trinty TX,  W&J, and Wartburg only 35 votes apart, 272, 253, 238 and 237 votes respectively.

#18 Springfield gets 166 votes.

#19 Wabash is still holding with 125 votes.

#20 HSU (0-2) has a strong 110 vote total.  In the "Ideal Top 25", #21 would earn 125 votes, so the Cowboys have to "love the love" they are getting by the aggressive non-conference scheduling.

#21-#25 is a logjam.  Rowan with 95 votes is solid, but #25 Salisbury is very strong with 75 votes.  In week #3 of 2006, #25 SJF only had 56 votes.  In week #3 of 2005, CNU had only 56 votes, as well.  In week #4 of 2004, #25 JHU got 128 votes.  The voters in week #3 2004 cast votes for 63 teams.

IMHO, the screening and evaluation process in year #5 of the balloting has done a better job of winnowing the "real 26-35", as K-Mack likes to describe those teams.  Only 46 teams are receiving votes this week.  The votes going to #26 to #46 total 399 votes and comprise only 4.9108% of the possible votes.  This is close to late season form.  I don't see anyone "not receiving" votes who should be.

Thanks for the hard work that all voters do!

[Mr. Ypsi]

Thanks, Ralph - that reminded me of DC's column!

Or [shameless plug alert ] my presentation of the final Posters' Poll for 2007 bball, where I literally grouped the clustered teams.

If the OAC having 4 of the top 14 last week was a record (I haven't found a poll to top it), it only lasted one week - the OAC has 4 of the top 12 this week!  For anyone noticing that the CCIW is only 11-11 in the 'modern' playoff era (front page), and wondering if we can therefore be a 'top' conference - no, we are not a TOP conference (yet?), but please remember that we are in the OAC's region!  We are 10-0 against all other playoff teams, 1-11 against the OAC (mostly, though not entirely, you-know-who).

EDIT: In light of the post below, 'you-know-who' is also called 'the K-Mack of d3 football'!


Gladly linked above!   
Thanks to Mr Ypsi for the great job that he did last winter.
+1, friend.  /Ralph Turner

[K-Mack]

So far, there's been little to quibble with in the top 25s. Even today's, I think 22 of the 25 teams were ones I voted for (18-20 is more typical this early in the season) and you can make a good case for the ones I'm not enamored with.

Another interesting thing is that the schedules have made it much easier to get a read on teams because there's more crossover than I can ever remember. Part of that is due to the MAC opening up and the games those teams have scheduled with NJAC schools, the normal NY crossover and the fact that Wesley is an Eastern (South Region) power but has to fill 5 non-conference games. Add that to CNU/UMHB, HSU/Linfield, HSU/LaCrosse, B-W/Augustana, etc. and there's more clarity as to where teams belong, comparatively.

I think four teams who did not start in the top 25 had the chance to play themselves in based on early schedules alone: Salisbury and Montclair have, N.C. Wesleyan and Widener not quite.

In other words, there aren't a lot of isolated schools, like, say, Occidental, which will will all of its games (most likely) and get 1 or 2 challenges from conference foes later in the season. Say no one beats them, but they also register no really significant wins ... it'll be hard to honestly move them higher than a team like Hardin-Simmons, which might lose 3 games to teams better than Oxy.

That can be the difference between a poll that takes into account strength of schedule and one that just looks at records. I think the former is more accurate, but there are many ways to do a top 25.

Some of the tiers you describe, Ralph, are ... if not typical, not surprising. I often feel like I have about eight top 10 teams and a bunch of teams who should be 15th or so, and sometimes one of those teams has to go as high as 11 or 12 or whatever.

Speaking of having the comparative results, and the 11 or 12 spots ... the OAC will eventually sort itself out. Others will too.

Very interesting stuff so far though.

[K-Mack]

please remember that we are in the OAC's region!  We are 10-0 against all other playoff teams, 1-11 against the OAC (mostly, though not entirely, you-know-who).

EDIT: In light of the post below, 'you-know-who' is also called 'the K-Mack of d3 football'!

+1 K 

[Rick Akins]

Unless I am mistaken, the new top 25 did not update the team records this week--the results for week 4 are there, but not the win( or loss).

[Foss]

What are the voters seeing differently in the OAC this year? 4 teams in the top 11? I know the OAC has always been viewed as one of the top conferences, but what is being perceived differently this year than in the past? It isn't uncommon for a number of teams in this conference to start off 3-0 or 4-0 after playing non-conference games and/or against the bottom teams in their conference, and having 2-3 teams in the top 20. But I don't ever recall so many teams from this conference (or any conference, for that matter) ranked so high. Just curious.

[Ralph Turner]

The Top 25 is consolidating even more.

Forty-six teams still received votes, but #26-#46 only received 356 votes.  This is 43 fewer votes than last week.

Once again, I think that this is due to the effort that the voters have put into this.  There seem to be less "random/throwaway/ feel-good" votes at the bottom, where someone has given a vote to next week's opponent.

I can understand the votes given to the last 11 teams, but I really like this vote.

Thanks to all of the voters!

[Pat Coleman]

Unless I am mistaken, the new top 25 did not update the team records this week--the results for week 4 are there, but not the win( or loss).

Because of the continuing problems with our scores provider, we had to do the entire poll in the database by hand, including updating the records. It has since been completed.

[pg04]

Unless I am mistaken, the new top 25 did not update the team records this week--the results for week 4 are there, but not the win( or loss).

Because of the continuing problems with our scores provider, we had to do the entire poll in the database by hand, including updating the records. It has since been completed.

Yikes 

[Pat Coleman]

Sorry. It's been a long weekend. I spent nearly two hours tonight doing something by hand that used to be done automatically and would take up about 20 seconds of my time.

[pg04]

I was actually Yikes-ing the fact that you had to do all that by hand.... Go to sleep now as your brain probably has disintegrated 

[HScoach]

Sorry. It's been a long weekend. I spent nearly two hours tonight doing something by hand that used to be done automatically and would take up about 20 seconds of my time.

Hmmm, wife is out of town and you had to take matters in hand yourself?