Top 25 rankings

[K-Mack]

What Ron said.

Unless you're arguing that the NCAA committee members read D3football.com and use our opinions for regional rankings, there's really no link between our polls and the playoffs, which is how it should be.

There are established criteria for the playoffs, beginning with the (now 22?) automatic qualifiers. That means the committee is really only using the criteria to establish the 4? Pool B teams and the 6-7 at-large B/C bids.

The committee and its regional rankings have great influence over the seeds and matchups (hey, someone has to), but very little influence over who gets in. At least for the first 25 teams or so.

[sjfcclimbing]

What Ron said.

Unless you're arguing that the NCAA committee members read D3football.com and use our opinions for regional rankings, there's really no link between our polls and the playoffs, which is how it should be.

There are established criteria for the playoffs, beginning with the (now 22?) automatic qualifiers. That means the committee is really only using the criteria to establish the 4? Pool B teams and the 6-7 at-large B/C bids.

The committee and its regional rankings have great influence over the seeds and matchups (hey, someone has to), but very little influence over who gets in. At least for the first 25 teams or so.

Not discussing selection but seeding.

Not really arguing but my point is very close to this. The people that make the final decisions are influenced by what they read. I doubt most of them have the opportunity to witness each of the qualifying teams in action against top notch competition and rely on others as well as what they have read on recognized expert sites and publications. Certainly strenght of schedule deals with rankings in one fashion or another (not refering to the "Strength of Schedule" formula detailed on this sight but during seeding discussions ranked opponents must come up). D3FOOTBALL.COM is certainly one of these sources. Certainly if they see that St. John or UMHB is ranked higher then Fisher all year long on this site, it will impact their final seeding decision. How much, I can't say but I certainly will take issue with the ranking until Fisher loses (hope not) or St. John and UMHB are ranked below them. That's what fans are all about.

Unless you are telling me a computer generates the seedings based on a strict formula, LOL.

[smedindy]

Selection or seeding. The NCAA cares not a whit about any poll at any time. Just look at the D-1 basketball seeding. They have their way.

If they cared about seeding, they'd make sure that they'd cough up enough dough so that the first round matchups in the South and West would be...realistic.

[Ralph Turner]

What Ron said.

Unless you're arguing that the NCAA committee members read D3football.com and use our opinions for regional rankings, there's really no link between our polls and the playoffs, which is how it should be.

There are established criteria for the playoffs, beginning with the (now 22?) automatic qualifiers. That means the committee is really only using the criteria to establish the 4? Pool B teams and the 6-7 at-large B/C bids.

The committee and its regional rankings have great influence over the seeds and matchups (hey, someone has to), but very little influence over who gets in. At least for the first 25 teams or so.

Not discussing selection but seeding.

Not really arguing but my point is very close to this. The people that make the final decisions are influenced by what they read. I doubt most of them have the opportunity to witness each of the qualifying teams in action against top notch competition and rely on others as well as what they have read on recognized expert sites and publications. Certainly strenght of schedule deals with rankings in one fashion or another (not refering to the "Strength of Schedule" formula detailed on this sight but during seeding discussions ranked opponents must come up). D3FOOTBALL.COM is certainly one of these sources. Certainly if they see that St. John or UMHB is ranked higher then Fisher all year long on this site, it will impact their final seeding decision. How much, I can't say but I certainly will take issue with the ranking until Fisher loses (hope not) or St. John and UMHB are ranked below them. That's what fans are all about.

Unless you are telling me a computer generates the seedings based on a strict formula, LOL.

sjfcclimbing,
Respectfully, I will refer you to the 2007 Football Handbook.  The Selection process is governed by the Handbook and the information therein.  The most important clause in the Handbook is "geographic proximity" to which smedindy refers.

In dealing with the "2006 Millsaps-UMHB-HSU Mappoint SNAFU", I will concede that there are times when the NCAA bureaucracy "drops the ball".  (Unfortunately, we ASC fans think that it happens almost annually with our conference.)

The selection process in the 2006 season was very good.  The arguments that we had for the 32nd pick were of the quality that one would expect for the last pick.

The Regional Rankings that were published in the weeks preceding the playoffs suggested us the seedings.  Although the Handbook does not explicitly declare the date that the regional rankings are done, we can look for them.

[JT]

If they consulted D3FOOTBALL.COM, the NCAA wouldn't make as many dumbfounded decisions as they do come selection day.

[sjfcclimbing]

sjfcclimbing,
Respectfully, I will refer you to the 2007 Football Handbook.  The Selection process is governed by the Handbook and the information therein. 

Ralph,
What ranking's does the handbook refer to?

• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.

• Ranked opponents are defined as those teams ranked at the time of the rankings/selection process only.

[Ralph Turner]

sjfc,

I do not see the dates that the committee will release the regional rankings, and I will hope that Pat and K-mack can get those.

For the example, let's go the Men's Basketball Regional Rankings for 2006-07.

You will remember how successful the Cardinals were last year.

Here is the Archive of the Regional Rankings from the Daily Dose.

[Ralph Turner]

sjfcclimbing,
Respectfully, I will refer you to the 2007 Football Handbook.  The Selection process is governed by the Handbook and the information therein. 

Ralph,
What ranking's does the handbook refer to?

• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams. 

I am going to assume that coincidentally the East Regional Rankings match exactly the East Region Teams in the D3Football.com Top 25, and that these results will hold exactly until after the last day of the season (even tho' TCNJ beat MSU tonight.)

1) SJF -- games against Springfield and Alfred to be played.
2) Montclair -- game versus Rowan and win over Springfield
3) Rowan -- game versus Montclair
4) Alfred -- game versus SJF and win over Springfield
5) RPI -- plays no in-region ranked teams
6) Springfield -- game versus SJF plus losses to Montclair and Alfred

The results of games amongst these teams are considered by the selection committee in the seeding and for at-large bids such at Pool C.

• Ranked opponents are defined as those teams ranked at the time of the rankings/selection process only.

Each regional committee does this for every region.  The committees usually don't announce the regional rankings until the last 3-4 weeks of the season, but today I would rank SJF as #1 in the East and having the #1 seed for the East Region playoffs.

I hope that helps. 

[texgrad69]

Guess some people DO care about the top 25 polls.  Ron I miss your column!!  It was always factual and not so much editorializing.

[K-Mack]

Guess some people DO care about the top 25 polls.  Ron I miss your column!!  It was always factual and not so much editorializing.

Ron, they like you, they really like you!

FTR, Columns are where editorializing belongs (as opposed to game stories, news pieces, etc.) ... although we like it when our columnists share educated opinions, not uninformed blathering (I try to limit it, thanks for putting up with me )

[K-Mack]

What Ron said.

Unless you're arguing that the NCAA committee members read D3football.com and use our opinions for regional rankings, there's really no link between our polls and the playoffs, which is how it should be.

There are established criteria for the playoffs, beginning with the (now 22?) automatic qualifiers. That means the committee is really only using the criteria to establish the 4? Pool B teams and the 6-7 at-large B/C bids.

The committee and its regional rankings have great influence over the seeds and matchups (hey, someone has to), but very little influence over who gets in. At least for the first 25 teams or so.

Not discussing selection but seeding.

Not really arguing but my point is very close to this. The people that make the final decisions are influenced by what they read. I doubt most of them have the opportunity to witness each of the qualifying teams in action against top notch competition and rely on others as well as what they have read on recognized expert sites and publications. Certainly strenght of schedule deals with rankings in one fashion or another (not refering to the "Strength of Schedule" formula detailed on this sight but during seeding discussions ranked opponents must come up). D3FOOTBALL.COM is certainly one of these sources. Certainly if they see that St. John or UMHB is ranked higher then Fisher all year long on this site, it will impact their final seeding decision. How much, I can't say but I certainly will take issue with the ranking until Fisher loses (hope not) or St. John and UMHB are ranked below them. That's what fans are all about.

Unless you are telling me a computer generates the seedings based on a strict formula, LOL.

Well now you're talking about the seeding of the brackets, not the individual teams, since SJF, SJU and UMHB will never be in the same playoff brackets.

Through 2004, I believe, home sites were determined before the playoffs began on a rotating basis (i.e. East & North would host one year, West & South next, or whatever).

When teams of the same seed made the semifinal round, then and only then would that come into play. For instance, if the No. 1 in the South and the No. 1 in the North advanced, and they were to play each other, they would play at the predetermined site. But if South No. 2 and North No. 1 advanced, they would play at the 1 seed.

Since 2005, after the brackets are assembled, the committee will rank the brackets 1 through 4 in terms of strength in order to determine home sites for semifinal games between teams of the same seed.

This is not necessary before the semis, because each team is already seeded within its bracket, and it's not necessary after because the Stagg Bowl is held at a neutral, predetermined site each year.

I honestly either forget, or that info is not available, but I'm not sure if they seed the brackets based on overall strength or strength of the 1 seed.

In any case, it doesn't often come into play. If the argument is that the D3football.com rankings affect that ranking, I would not be too concerned with it.

Home field is a nice advantage, but teams have won semifinals on the road. Also, it's very likely the committee could deduce the same thing our site/poll would deduce in regard to which bracket to rank 1, 2, 3 and 4.

One more to come ...

[Pat Coleman]

Actually, the last regional rotation was 1998.

[K-Mack]

sjfcclimbing,
Respectfully, I will refer you to the 2007 Football Handbook.  The Selection process is governed by the Handbook and the information therein. 

Ralph,
What ranking's does the handbook refer to?

• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams. 

I am going to assume that coincidentally the East Regional Rankings match exactly the East Region Teams in the D3Football.com Top 25, and that these results will hold exactly until after the last day of the season (even tho' TCNJ beat MSU tonight.)

1) SJF -- games against Springfield and Alfred to be played.
2) Montclair -- game versus Rowan and win over Springfield
3) Rowan -- game versus Montclair
4) Alfred -- game versus SJF and win over Springfield
5) RPI -- plays no in-region ranked teams
6) Springfield -- game versus SJF plus losses to Montclair and Alfred

The results of games amongst these teams are considered by the selection committee in the seeding and for at-large bids such at Pool C.

• Ranked opponents are defined as those teams ranked at the time of the rankings/selection process only.

Each regional committee does this for every region.  The committees usually don't announce the regional rankings until the last 3-4 weeks of the season, but today I would rank SJF as #1 in the East and having the #1 seed for the East Region playoffs.

I hope that helps. 

OK,
Kind of lost track who was asking what here, but a couple points to emphasize.

1) The committee does do its own rankings for each region late in the season, and they are the rankings to which the handbook refers.

2) Those rankings often do NOT reflect the D3football.com polls at the time they come out, largely because the poll voters judge the entire body of work, while the playoff committee is charged with evaluating Division III games within a team's region first, then other results. The regional rankings, I believe, are done only considering a team's regional results, which then might be a more accurate reflection of where they will fall in the playoff seeding scenario, but not their actual overall strength.

There were some other points, but I think most were touched on.

As to the overall point of people are influenced by what they read, well sure. But again, I'm not sure what kind of influence we wield over playoff seeding (or selection).

As JT noted, some people wish it was more.

As we learned a few hours ago, Fisher has more pressing worries than playoff seeding anyway. But a fine discussion it is.

[K-Mack]

Actually, the last regional rotation was 1998.

I'm inclined to believe you, but I am fairly certain I have dealt with predetermined semifinal sites in the D3football.com era, otherwise where would I have come up with that idea?

You aren't saying that the last time predetermined sites were actually used was 98, are you?

[Pat Coleman]

I am saying that. It's true, even.