Top 25 rankings

[smedindy]

SOME coaches take SOS into consideration. I was surprised to see Wabash receiving votes, since we were 6-4 last yaer and have played one poor team and one okay team thus far.

[Ron Boerger]

They must give something, strength of schedule wise. Otherewise why is UW - Stevens Point (0-2 vs. Hardin-Simmons and Linfield) ahead of Whitworth (2-0 vs. Redlands and La Verne) by eight places in the others recieving votes?

Because some of those voting in the poll do so by reputation rather than by actually following the teams they are voting on?  SP wasn't even close in the two games they lost, unlike someone like, say, Texas Lutheran who doesn't have the rep and thus only got a single vote.    You can say #13 Trinity and #2 UMHB aren't #1 Linfield and #4 HSU, but at least TLU had the UMHB game tied going to the fourth quarter (at their place before nearly 7,000 UMHB fans) and only lost by a TD.   Unlike, say, Point, who got blown out of the water at home by HSU. 

NB -I use the D3football.com rankings rather than the jokey AFCA equivalents.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

Let me preface by saying I "go by" the D3football.com poll as well.  But let me suggest that the AFCA and D3football.com poll are not all that different.  They just take different approaches.

There are seven schools with rankings in either or both polls separated by more than six spots;

Alma (8 spot difference), Hobart (8 ), Wheaton (11), CNU (11), Cortland St. (15), UW-Eau Claire (16) and Capital (17).

You might think "well, that's a pretty significant difference."  Consider the following...

In 2004, Capital plunged from being preseason #12 in the D3football.com poll to "#41" once the season's final poll came out.  And this year, D3football.com has them ranked 17 spots higher (as noted above) than does the AFCA poll (D3: #22, AFCA: "#39").

In 2004, UW-Eau Claire went from receiving absolutely no votes in the D3football.com preseason poll to finishing the season ranked "#29" ... and after week 8, they found themselves ranked #6 ... then fell after losing two straight.  And this year, D3football.com has them ranked 16 spots higher than does the AFCA (D3: #19, AFCA: "#35").  So maybe the AFCA is waiting for Eau Claire to prove themselves rather than not give them any respect (remember, 0 votes from the D3football.com voters during 2004 preseason, all the way up to #6 in the country by week 8, only to plunge to "#29" by season's end).

In 2004, Wheaton was preseason #14 by D3football.com, and finished the season #12.  They were as high as #4 during week 8.  This year, the AFCA has them #9 in their first poll ... with D3football.com 11 spots lower at #20.  Last year Wheaton was a consistant top 15 team.

In 2004, Alma - like UW-Eau Claire - received no votes in the preseason D3football.com poll ... but by season's end, was "#28".  The AFCA has them #20 this year, with D3football.com eight spots lower at "#28".

Hobart is yet another school that last year received no votes in the preseason poll, and yet ended up ranked #21 in the final one.  The AFCA has them #23 this year, with D3football.com eight sports lower at "#31".

And finally, Cortland State (#25 in the AFCA poll this year, and "#40" in the D3football.com poll) has started 3-0 (with all three games on the road).  They've given up only 10 ppg in the process, including holding Brockport St. to 10 and beating them by 10.  The same Brockport team that lost to #10 Salisbury by only five points earlier this year.

So anywho, there is some analysis on the two polls.

[Pat Coleman]

Interesting points. I would also say, however, that the AFCA also pushed UW-EC into its Top 10 last year, peaking at No. 9, so if they are waiting on UW-EC, it's something new for them.

Your list makes it sound like we were the only ones to rank UWEC highly and I'm just pointing out that is not the case.

You can find old AFCA polls in our Notables section. It came out on Tuesdays last year as well, so that should help you navigate the calendar and give a more complete picture.

[JT]

I also think that since the d3 votes are spread across the regions, norming of the d3 poll exists.  There may be some favorites that get the benefit of the doubt, but the deserving teams get noticed and start to move up.

[K-Mack]

Let me preface by saying I "go by" the D3football.com poll as well.  But let me suggest that the AFCA and D3football.com poll are not all that different.  They just take different approaches.

I'm not sure you were very clear on what you think the different approaches to be. You think one poll waits for teams to prove themselves and the other tries to get ahead of the next big teams?

I think the main difference is that D3 seems to take conference strength and opponent strength more into consideration, AFCA seems to go more off reputation and wins and losses. That doesn't necessarily make one better than the other, and I don't always agree with where teams shake out in the poll I vote in (just 1/25th of it).

Not that UWSP received any votes in either poll this week, but if they had played a few more games, we might find that getting smoked by No. 1 and No. 4 doesn't preclude you from being ranked 20th or something.

But honestly, the major difference between the two polls could be as simple as having two different groups of people voting. Different voters have different information, opinions and criteria, so any two groups of 25 or 40 people are unlikely to have the same result, wouldn't you think?

I wonder if things would change/even out if someone tallied an unofficial super-poll (combining the points from both each week, using the 25-1 scale) ...

Anyway...

[K-Mack]

Just out of curiosity I was wondering how those responsible for the top 25 poll base their votes on teams from the NESCAC. Trinity (CT) for example, for the past 2 or 3 seasons, has started the season in the "others recieving votes" section of the poll. After they win all of their games they eventually sneak into the top 25 usually finishing in the low 20s.

I realize it's not a very important issue because Trinity (CT) nor any other NESCAC school is eligibel for the playoffs because of their self-imposed ban.  But I was just curious if the voters have ever even seen a Trinity (CT) or NESCAC game, or if their inclusion into the national poll is just D3football.com's way of throwing a bone to the team with the nations longest current win streak (22).

Thanks.

It is absolutely hard to judge unless you go to a game (which I would love to do next week vs. Williams, if I wasn't signed on to do a doubleheader in the midwest ... you will see this article at some point this season though).

I have often considered Trinity and occasionally voted for them, but given what we know about football in the east, period, compared to the other pockets of strength in the country, even if one were to assume that the NESCAC is strong (which you could assume by judging how the conference does in other sports), it doesn't mean the conference leader would always be an automatic vote.

You can't really go on statistics, since the NESCAC is in Week 1 when others are in Week 4, and you can't go on inter-conference games, history, strength of schedule or anything like that ... basically all you have is what you see and who you talk to who has seen them.

I think just the playoffs (which would be for one team and one only) and not an extension of the schedule or out-of-conference play would do a lot for the NESCAC's national profile, but clearly that is not a concern except amongst us who watch and compare d3 football teams.

So to answer the question, yes NESCAC teams are eligible, but I don't know that many voters who work on Saturdays (with other teams) and don't have the opportunity to see teams like I do have any way of being able to consider a NESCAC team fairly, and therefore don't.

That's why you probably see them in also receiving votes and not much higher.

[Mugsy]

Just an observation...

The AFCA poll has Millikin and North Central receiving votes, Millikin with 74 votes and North Central with only 25 votes.  Millikin is ranked 27th, while North Central is ranked 37th.

Yet North Central received more first place votes by CCIW coaches in their pre-season poll, more than Wheaton who is the 3 time repeat CCIW champion.  Millikin was picked to finish 5th in the conference.

The D3Football poll has 5 CCIW teams listed in the top 40, including North Central and Millikin.  Difference is, North Central is ranked at  37th and Millikin at 38th.

Time will tell, but I suspect North Central will ultimately end the season ranked higher than Millikin.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

Below is the Division III version of the Bowl Championship Series (through September 24 games).  I just put it together for fun ... to see how the two human polls, along with the computer ratings, would rank a top 25 when combined.  I'll do this again after week 8 and after week 11 (before the playoffs begin).

Highlighted red: Coaches' Poll (AFCA)
Highlighted green: Media Poll (D3football.com)
Highlighted blue: Computer Ratings (Born Power, CSL, Elrod, Laz, Sorensen, and Waits)
Highlighted brown: DIII BCS ranking and average

Click here for an explaination of how to calculate the BCS.

Rank	School	Rank [/u][/b]	Points [/u][/b]	% [/u][/b]	Rank [/u][/b]	Points [/u][/b]	% [/u][/b]	Born [/u][/b]	CSL [/b][/u]	Elrod [/u][/b]	Laz [/u][/b]	Sor. [/u][/b]	Waits [/u][/b]	% [/u][/b]	Rank [/u][/b]	Average [/u][/b]
1	Linfield	1	991	0.991	1	625	1.000	24	25	25	25	19	25	0.990	1	.9937
2	MUC	2	951	0.951	3	580	0.928	25	22	24	24	25	15	0.950	2	.9430
3	UMHB	3	916	0.916	2	581	0.930	20	24	16	18	21	21	0.800	4	.8820
4	Rowan	4	854	0.854	5	482	0.771	19	23	17	15	6	6	0.570	5	.7317
5	H-SU	5	828	0.828	4	534	0.854	4	0	10	20	5	22	0.390	11	.6907
6	UW-White	11	591	0.591	10	347	0.555	23	14	23	23	23	24	0.920	3	.6887
7	W&J	7	729	0.729	6	478	0.765	21	19	21	16	0	0	0.560	6	.6847
8	SJU	6	792	0.792	9	434	0.694	12	6	18	22	16	7	0.530	7	.6720
9	Ithaca	9	660	0.660	13	320	0.512	9	18	19	4	0	12	0.430	10	.5340
10	Oxy	10	612	0.612	8	456	0.730	2	13	0	8	0	18	0.230	16	.5240
11	UW-LaC	16	357	0.357	14	296	0.474	14	0	14	21	20	5	0.530	7	.4537
12	Trinity,TX	12	537	0.537	12	328	0.525	0	0	0	0	15	17	0.150	23	.4040
13	Wheaton	8	663	0.663	18	142	0.227	13	0	20	7	0	0	0.200	18	.3633
14	Del Val	13	474	0.474	11	344	0.550	1	21	0	0	0	0	0.010	NR	.3447
15	ONU	NR	0	0.000	7	463	0.741	18	0	1	12	9	0	0.220	17	.3203
16	Carthage	14	472	0.472	16	234	0.374	0	20	9	0	2	0	0.110	NR	.3187
17	CMU	15	380	0.380	15	259	0.414	0	0	6	10	18	0	0.160	22	.3180
18	SJF	20	172	0.172	17	176	0.282	17	0	22	3	0	0	0.200	18	.2180
19	Wesley	32	42	0.042	29	27	0.043	6	12	15	19	8	12	0.470	9	.1850
20	UW-Stout	21	129	0.129	NR	0	0.069	16	0	11	17	0	3	0.300	14	.1660
21	Whitworth	38	24	0.024	25	70	0.112	0	0	0	11	24	20	0.310	13	.1487
22	UW-Eau	42	16	0.016	19	142	0.227	11	0	8	13	0	0	0.190	20	.1443
23	Hobart	19	212	0.212	30	25	0.040	7	15	7	1	0	0	0.150	23	.1340
24	H-SC	18	261	0.261	22	80	0.128	0	0	0	0	0	0	0.000	NR	.1297
25	Coe	23	117	0.117	36	17	0.027	0	8	0	0	22	16	0.240	15	.1280

[HScoach]

Below is the Division III version of the Bowl Championship Series (through September 24 games).  I just put it together for fun ...

Dude, you have WAY too much time on your hands........

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

Dude, you have WAY too much time on your hands........

I did it over a couple days (roughly three hours) ... what took the most time was manually putting it into a table, phew.  That was an hours worth right there. 

[splik]

so is Linfield now playing Mount Union in the Toilet bowl? 

[Gray Fox]

Kid,

The Dunkel Index has D3 again.  I don't know when they added it back.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

Yeah, and there were four other indexes that I saw that had Division III schools in them.  I went with the six below because they seemed the most reflective of the two human polls.

[smedindy]

Personally, once the season sorts out a bit, I like Massey the best for D-3.