Top 25 rankings

[Sabretooth Tiger]

OK . . . not much substance to offer, but I'll pose a question . . . what impact does Danny Jones' transfer from CLU to UWW do to UWW's preseason ranking, if any?

tooth

[BoBo]

tooth, realistically, how much influence could it have?  I mean, WW will arguably be top 5 pre-season. Without Jones, they have 2 very good QB's.  If he lives up to advanced billing that makes 3. Do you think it will really be reflected in the re-season rankings? I don't.

[KennethK]

So, before we see the preseason polls for '07 (should I start a new thread? I don't mind keeping this one going), what are people's thoughts on No. 2 and the rest behind Mount Union?

I can't post the poll I did for USA Today's College Football Preview until at least the 25th, when it hits newsstands. However, I'd like to be in full discussion mode by the time it hits

K-Mack...anxious to see your top 25.  Street & Smith's 07 magazine has an interesting list...MU, St Johns, SJF, Whitewater, MHB top five.  Thought their breakdown of the top 25 was very well done. 

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

I put together my top 25 poll.  I want to see how it compares to the preseason poll for this season.  This is how I determined it.  I went back and looked at the poll from last year went through the teams looking to see how many returners should be coming back.  I came up with a range of numbers of where I thought they could be.  I then and went and looked at teams big stat makers.  I then put them in where I thought.

Preseason Top 25-By PrideSportBBallGuy

1. Mount Union
2. St John Fisher
3. St Johns
4. UW-Whitewater
5. Springfield
6. Mary Hardin-Baylor
7. Capitol
8. Central
9. Wesley
10. UW-Lacrosse
11. Rowan
12. Whitworth
13. Occidental
14. Hardin Simmons
15. Wheaton
16. Wilkes
17. Bethel
18. Washington & Jefferson
19. North Central
20. Linfield
21. Hobart
22. Carnegie Mellon
23. Baldwin-Wallace
24. Wabash
25. St. Olaf

Enjoy it.

what are people's thoughts on No. 2 and the rest behind Mount Union?

I can't post the poll I did for USA Today's College Football Preview until at least the 25th, when it hits newsstands. However, I'd like to be in full discussion mode by the time it hits

I think that anwsers your question.  I think we all are anxious to see your poll.

[K-Mack]

That looks like my top 25 in some ways, and doesn't look like it in some other ways.

I too, went with a strong focus on what was coming back, with a few exceptions. Even though UW-Whitewater was gutted, for example, usually two years of recruiting off a Stagg Bowl and getting 5 extra weeks of practice in pays huge dividends.

I feel like I can justify where I put everyone, but there's definitely some room to disagree.

Also, copy editor nerd point I should make here ... Pride, yours and mine are top 25 RANKINGS. An actual POLL, like D3football.com's, involves a group of people voting and then numbers being sorted out to determine each team's ranking.

Don't worry though, many people who get paid to do this don't recognize the difference.

As far as the top 25 itself, it's supposed to be on newstands and at your local 7-Elevens today. SOMEbody's gonna have to drop $4.95 on that puppy, sorry ...

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

K-Mack-
I make that poll/rankings mistake all the time.  Growing up and seeing polls after polls after polls, I just keep calling it poll when it should be called a ranking. I need to get out to the store and pick one up, I guess.  What can you tell me about your rankings?  How many teams I got in the same spot as yours or How many teams to we both have together in the Top 25?  Or am I going to have to go out and get a USAToday?

Somebody please go out and get one.

[K-Mack]

Pride,
No big deal. I'll give you a few reactions to yours.

I felt like Linfield was right there with Whitworth last season, and the Pirates lost their star QB and NFL tight end ... they were built for last season, if I remember correctly, on defense, so I gave the nod to Linfield to reclaim the NWC title this year and only ranked one team from that conference. Which is not uncommon given that there are 26 conferences and 25 spots in the top 25, but our power conferences often have multiple teams ranked.

I won't give you my top five ... I think the answers will shock some people, but that was the most carefully dissected part of it, and I consulted heavily with Pat and Gordon on that one.

I had Whitewater and La Crosse right together, and this was a great example of doing it so early, there's

The best I could do for a lot of teams in terms of returning starters was look at their last (playoff) game and seeing how many of those guys were back, but even that's an inexact science.

It's tough to do this so early, it's really better in August when coaches have a better idea of what's what ... I can't say that top 25, which I'm solely responsbile for, is the one I'll submit as my vote in the first D3 poll.

Pride,
you and I had Mount Union, Central, W&J and Linfield in the same spots, and a couple more one spot difference. I think we ranked 21 of the same teams.

There is definitely room to disagree. I thought there were some teams I didn't rank, like Wartburg, who could easily have been in there. I also thought there were some races, like in the ODAC, where we'll need to see a few games to see which team, if any (Bwater, E&H, Guilford, defending champ W&L?) is top 25 worthy.

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

The question I do have about Linfield is how many of thier stars are returning.  Several of them are seniors but have Junior eligibilty.  They can play an extra year.  I just question whether or not all of them are still using it.  As from my conference Christopher Newport.  I couldn't see them in the rankings at all.  i would be surprised to see them in d3football's top 25 preseason.  They may get some votes, but I have already went through thier numbers already.  They are losing a big portion of thier offense:  Take a look.

I am just pointing out that they have never had a bad defense.  I still don't understand why the defense would be such ?.  I know that you are losing Rob, but considering what you are losing on offense should raise the question marks.

Some numbers

Offense CNU is losing 2773 yards out of 3526.  That is 78.6% of the total yards lost.

TD #'s 31/41 will be lost that is 75%

Now on the defensive side you are losing 158 tackles / 732 thats only 21%

INT's 4/8.  50%

Sacks 2.5/20. 12.5%

All these numbers could be a little higher.  I only took the numbers from the big core group. (But for CNU's sake lets hope not)


I am just not sure if the defense is the big worry for next year.

Then again CNU always finds a way to make it in the poll at some point in the season.  They have a consistent program over there.

[K-Mack]

Also, Pat consulted with me, but did not fully endorse my top 5. It's definitely not the same old, same old rehashed top 5 from last season, and there's room to disagree.

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

I don't think there will be many that will see Springfield as a top 5 team

[K-Mack]

I don't think there will be many that will see Springfield as a top 5 team

I have them in the top 10. I don't see why they'd be too far down the list if they split with St. John Fisher last season and Fisher went to the semifinals and gave Mount Union a game. Whether you know D3 football or not, you can extrapolate the same thing from that, and then they have Chris Sharpe and some other talent back.

I forgot to finish this thought:
"I had Whitewater and La Crosse right together, and this was a great example of doing it so early, there's "

there's little information out there about the team's upcoming season. It's easiest to have a concrete number of starters back to work with, but even with that, everyone does it differently; some count return men and long snappers, some count kickers and punters, some count neither ... some count a starter from two years ago that missed last year but is back this year ... so putting too much stock in that number is dangerous too.

What you like to see is significant players back or significant groups ... eight or nine on defense, or four or five on the offensive line. On the flipside, you almost have to take into account significant losses, like Thiel last year for example.

If you try to think too far ahead, you can use home/away games, try to project where the playoff games will be and who will win ... but bottom line, you try to come up with the best ranking you can, knowing that as soon as the real games kickoff, the thing is entirely fluid.

And if it weren't, how boring would the season be?

[K-Mack]

So, before we see the preseason polls for '07 (should I start a new thread? I don't mind keeping this one going), what are people's thoughts on No. 2 and the rest behind Mount Union?

I can't post the poll I did for USA Today's College Football Preview until at least the 25th, when it hits newsstands. However, I'd like to be in full discussion mode by the time it hits

K-Mack...anxious to see your top 25.  Street & Smith's 07 magazine has an interesting list...MU, St Johns, SJF, Whitewater, MHB top five.  Thought their breakdown of the top 25 was very well done. 

Would appreciate a reposting of this or a link to it. Same with Lindy's ... I haven't seen either.

If S&S is the one who's had the same guy doing it for ages (Mike Goens, from Ala. somewhere), I can at least understand why they'd have a good feel for things.

[gordonmann]

Here is the Street & Smith poll as posted by our friend at BridgewaterFootball.com.  Check out No. 24.

http://bridgewaterfootball.blogspot.com/2007/06/bc-ranked-no-17-by-street-smith.html

And you can see the Lindy's poll about halfway down this page...

http://65.36.138.212/publicus/blog/read.asp?BlogID=4&ID=6755

I could just paste them but why not drive some traffic their way as a sign of my appreciation?

[pg04]

There certainly seems to be a large disparity in the placement of St. John Fisher on these polls. 

[K-Mack]

Here is the Street & Smith poll as posted by our friend at BridgewaterFootball.com.  Check out No. 24.

http://bridgewaterfootball.blogspot.com/2007/06/bc-ranked-no-17-by-street-smith.html

Can always count on my guy to assemble this stuff.

I'm pretty sure I can count on Bridgewater fans to protest their non-mention in USAT as well. :guilty: