Top 25 rankings

[Jonny Utah]

Id put Rowan ahead of springfield.

Plus they wont be suprising anyone this year either.  Im sure E8 teams has every single SC offensive game last year with breakdowns, percentages etc....

Im not saying they wont be a great team, but they arent the 5th best team in the country.

Then again I am sure Springfield is doing the same thing with the rest of the E8 teams.

yea but Ithaca hasnt been running the same offense the last 25 years.  Plus they will have some different players.

Ithaca now knows what this QB likes to do.  They know who is going to get the ball more often than not.  You can never predict what SC will do, but it is easier when you can see tendencies with the same people.

[Jonny Utah]

Did you know that Springfield is only good on turf and not on grass?

Gotta know the teams. Can't just number everything.

Is that Colman sarcasm or do you really believe that? Will the "this team plays better on turf" argument please end.  It's one thing to compare turf to a beat up grass field, but a good grass field and turf field are pretty much the same.

Either way, you could be playing on a sheet of ice and it wouldn't matter since both teams are equally affected by the playing surface.

Grass vs. Turf: personal pet peeve of mine since 1997.

Dude, have you seen Springfield play?

yeah I saw the IC/SC telecast (at a sloppy Ithaca field) and Springfield looked horrible.  but you can't blame the field.  Every time a SC running back slips, sooner or later a ithaca defender is going to slip and miss a tackle.

my argument is only about the field (or weather for that matter) physically affecting one team more than another.  Mental attitude, preparedness, sure you can have that, but that is just bad coaching.

sorry, this is a pet peeve I will take to the grave!!

gro I am going to say that offensive teams have a disavantage in bad weather.  They have to handle the ball, fake, throw, catch....much harder.

[realistic]

while this issue has been beaten to death... I will agree with JU and Pat.

first and foremost Pat's point about seeing SC in person is a great one.  JU mentioned the turf at SC and that is the thing...that turf is not like other turf (though they may be replacing it) it is like cement.  That is going to be faster than grass....granted 'gro's point is that it makes everyone faster but with that triple option the offense has the advantage of the turf.

['gro]

gro I am going to say that offensive teams have a disavantage in bad weather.  They have to handle the ball, fake, throw, catch....much harder.

You're absolutely right JU. Couldn't agree more.



man this pic never gets old, how many years can I keep bringing this game up?

[Pat Coleman]

yeah I saw the IC/SC telecast (at a sloppy Ithaca field) and Springfield looked horrible.  but you can't blame the field.  Every time a SC running back slips, sooner or later a ithaca defender is going to slip and miss a tackle.

You're sure that's true? It's not possible that a team that plays on grass eight or so times a year and practices on it all the time is going to be more accustomed to the surface?

[Jonny Utah]

gro I am going to say that offensive teams have a disavantage in bad weather.  They have to handle the ball, fake, throw, catch....much harder.

You're absolutely right JU. Couldn't agree more.



man this pic never gets old, how many years can I keep bringing this game up?

I have never lost to RPI.

JU would not have let that happen.

I have to give credit though.  In RPI's first season of football (2003), they were pretty impressive.

But seriously, you would think Ithaca would have the advantage in the snow on the road with the white uniforms.  RPI must have used infrared goggles or something that day.

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

It's not possible that a team that plays on grass eight or so times a year and practices on it all the time is going to be more accustomed to the surface?

I think it is possible for a team who plays on turf 8 times a year might not be accustomed to the surface.

Dallas Cowboys
New Orlean Saints
Atlanta Falcons
New England
New York Giants

All had better records on the road than at home this past season.   

So yeah I think it is possible.

[Jonny Utah]

It's not possible that a team that plays on grass eight or so times a year and practices on it all the time is going to be more accustomed to the surface?

I think it is possible for a team who plays on turf 8 times a year might not be accustomed to the surface.

Dallas Cowboys
New Orlean Saints
Atlanta Falcons
New England
New York Giants

All had better records on the road than at home this past season.   

So yeah I think it is possible.

Pats had grass at home for a lot of the season.......

and you cant compare the NFL with d3football.  Especially if you look at stats for turf v grass and the sample is so small in terms of grass fields.  Very unscientific and empirical observations are more important with this argument.

Its science.

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

It's not possible that a team that plays on grass eight or so times a year and practices on it all the time is going to be more accustomed to the surface?

I think it is possible for a team who plays on turf 8 times a year might not be accustomed to the surface.

Dallas Cowboys
New Orlean Saints
Atlanta Falcons
New England
New York Giants

All had better records on the road than at home this past season.   

So yeah I think it is possible.

Pats had grass at home for a lot of the season.......

and you cant compare the NFL with d3football.  Especially if you look at stats for turf v grass and the sample is so small in terms of grass fields.  Very unscientific and empirical observations are more important with this argument.

Its science.

I agree to a point.  It is football no matter how you play it or WHERE you play it.  Surface to me doesn't matter.

The question Pat asked was:

It's not possible that a team that plays on grass eight or so times a year and practices on it all the time is going to be more accustomed to the surface?

Those NFL teams do play 8 or so times a year on that surface. You may not be able to compare d3 to NFL, but the surface is still turf.  The sake of my arugement was to point out that surface really doesn't matter, even in the NFL.  Coaching, mental and physical preparation all contribute into the factor of how a team plays.

[HScoach]

hscoach-

As for Captial I do agree they lost a lot.  I thought they couldn't be as high as they finished last year at number 3.  Before I went to see who was returning and who wasn't I had them around 4-7 range.  They ended up at number 7.  They may have lost alot, but they haven't had a losing season since 2000.  That tells me they do a good job of replacing players.

It's not the overall number of starters they lost that kills them in '07.  It's the quality of those lost.  See below for info on Capital from the OAC Preview on Ric's site:

CAPITAL CRUSADERS
Under the capable leadership of Jim Collins, the Crusaders have made the giant leap from "OAC also-ran" to North Region Finalist.  Since 2001, Capital has 49 wins versus 17 losses (with eight of those L's coming against MTU) and consecutive appearances in the NCAA Elite 8.

     However as they come off the most successful season in the college's football history, questions abound as Capital graduates its greatest senior class.  Gone is Rocky Pentello, a four-year starter at quarterback and the 2006 OAC Offensive Back of the Year, as well as seven other offensive starters including both running backs.  Only Derek Alexander (First-Team All-OAC) at wide receiver, Adam Persing (First-Team All-OAC) at left tackle and Will Smith at left guard return to the Capital offense.  The huge void at quarterback appears to be filled by Marty Assman, a highly regarded sophomore from Bishop Hartley High School that saw mop-up duty in 2006.

     Defensively the Crusaders loose the top tandem of safeties in the conference in Tom and Kyle Hausler, as well as three-fourths of their defensive line and one linebacker.  And anyone wondering the impact of the Hauslers at safety only needs to look at offensive production of the Purple Raiders in the two Mount Union/Capital games from this year, as Kyle missed the regular season match-up and the Raider running game dominated with Kmic breaking several long runs through the position normally manned by Kyle Hausler.  Returning to Capital defense are five starters lead by James Starks (First-Team All-OAC) at cornerback and Zac McKenzie (Second-Team All-OAC) at defensive tackle.  Rounding out the returnees are Pete Ankrom and Eric Andriacco at linebacker as well as Matt Coleman at corner.

     The most disheartening statistic for the 2007 Crusades is that of the 15 players that earned All-OAC honors in 2006, only four of them return for 2007.  So not only are the Crusaders losing the majority of their starters, they lost the vast majority of their playmakers.

     Going into 2007, Coach Collins has some major holes to fill to have any chance of remaining near the top of the OAC.  As the roster stands today with only three starters returning on offense and no one in the backfield with any valuable experience, the Crusaders will likely rely on the five returning defensive starters to carry the team in the early going of 2007.  Potentially mitigating the lack of returning depth is the quick fix of upper-classmen Division 1 transfers into the open "playmaker" positions.  This is an avenue of talent acquisition that Coach Collins has excelled at the last few years.  As evidence, one needs to look no further than Lewis Howes who only played at Capital for his senior year, yet was Capital's most explosive receiver in 2005.  As well as Derrick Alexander who is on campus for only the 2006 and 2007 seasons.  And this doesn't include the transfer of arguably the best player in the history of the school (Rocky Pentello from Toledo) and one of their best linebackers (Joel Sickmeier from Mount Union).

     If Collins is looking for immediate help for the 2007 Crusaders, I expect him to focus on the running back position given Capital's poor rushing totals.  If there was one glaring weakness in the 2005 and 2006 Crusader teams, it was their lack of any legitimate running game to take the pressure off of Rocky Pentello.  This issue was never more evident than last year's regular season showdown with the Purple Raiders that was played in a blinding snow/sleet storm.  Mother Nature took care of limiting the Crusader passing game that day and the absence of a running game completely eliminated any semblance of a productive Capital offense.  By contrast, the Purple Raiders have displayed a great balance between running and passing in recent years which have been a big factor in their OAC and national titles.  Coupling dismal rushing production with the limitations of starting a young quarterback, I would expect Collins to put a real premium on finding a legitimate running threat for 2007.

     One thing that you can count on is that Coach Jim Collins has built a very good and talented program in Columbus and the Crusaders will not be an easy victory for anyone in 2007.  The question remains however whether they can remain Mount Union's toughest competition for the OAC Crown, or whether they slip back to being just another of the OAC's very good squads.

['gro]

I have never lost to RPI.

You never had the chance. I never beat Ithaca (insert intense rage here).

yeah I saw the IC/SC telecast (at a sloppy Ithaca field) and Springfield looked horrible.  but you can't blame the field.  Every time a SC running back slips, sooner or later a ithaca defender is going to slip and miss a tackle.

You're sure that's true? It's not possible that a team that plays on grass eight or so times a year and practices on it all the time is going to be more accustomed to the surface?

I believe in a weeks time you can become accustomed to playing on the surface of saturday's game.

I say we agree to disagree on this one. Thanks to PrideSport for having the same view +k.

No posters were smited during the duration of this topic

[tmerton]

Tmerton is on the West Coast. A John David Booty cover, perhaps?

Gee, Pat, you really know how to hurt a guy.  I'm not into ballroom dancing, though (which I presume is now a required course for SC qb's).

[PA_wesleyfan]

No Wesley WOW!!!

that's a misprrint right?

[realistic]

haha - Gro, +K for the italic disclaimer.

[theoriginalupstate]

re: Springfield on grass turf....

What is the Pride's win/loss record on grass fields during their good years (8 wins or more)?