Top 25 rankings

[Ryan Tipps]

And one more I'll throw out, which could be interesting considering the games we've just been mentioning: Widener.

The team looks good on paper: in skill positions, they're is returning their RB (No. 1 in conference) and QB and a solid receiver (they're losing their best wideout, though). On defense, they're getting back three of their top four tacklers. I'd like to see how many starters they've got back. Last year, they only returned 14, and still went 7-4, with most of their losses being within only a couple of points.

It'll be interesting to see how they shape up against Wilkes, which appears to be losing a lot of players for '07. But, as mentioned in previous posts, Widener will have some good benchmarks in the opening weeks against NCW and Wesley.

[gordonmann]

To add a little more perspective on the Pioneers Pride, they have an excellent rush defense with particularly fast linemen.  Kahlee Prothro is explosive when they can get him the ball.  But they need to improve up front so the quarterback can do that -- get him the ball.  And they need to develop a second option or else defenses will assign their quickest man to shadow Prothro as soon as he leaves the locker room.

I expect the MAC will be a close race between Wilkes, Widener and another dark horse -- Lebanon Valley. 

The Flying Dutch made big strides forward on defense last year, particularly against the run.  Charlie Parker (no, not the sax player) is a good young running back and Adam Brossman is probably the best offensive weapon in the conference. other than perhaps Prothro.  Leb Val's big question is whether they can find a new QB to get Brossman the ball.  But with the quick patterns he runs, it doesn't make much for him to turn an 8-yard pattern into a 20-yard gain.

Another dark horse candidate is Rochester.  The Yellowjackets bring back their top wide receiver and running back.  I voted for them in the Top 25 in my annual "let's take a chance on someone off the radar" pick.

Last year's pick in that category was Widener. Hello, full circle.

[Pat Coleman]

The preseason Top 25 is posted.
http://www.d3football.com/top25.php

[DutchFan2004]

No shockers here IMHO.  Until MUC and UWW can be beat as well as the Johnnies they deserve where they are.  Any other placings is up for debate. 

[K-Mack]

No shockers here IMHO.  Until MUC and UWW can be beat as well as the Johnnies they deserve where they are.  Any other placings is up for debate. 

That's weird, I found it rather bizarre that some teams (Capital) were penalized for losing a lot and others weren't. It's the preseason, there's going to be a wide range of opinions on who's got what, who's got enough back and such ... and I'm sure we all don't agree on what it all means, do you rank a team based on what they've done up until now or what they're expected to do.

That said, I think there's a lot to argue about in there.

[DutchFan2004]

K-Mack the statement about no surprises was meant for the top three teams.  4-21 are the ones that are up for grabs in my opinion.  4-8 are really up for grabs.  I know Central is 8 and I follow them.  They finished 11 last year with a first round loss.  Having said that the first round loss was to #3 St Johns who lost to Bethel in the last game of the regular season.  I think every one will have their two cents to share.  #8 for Central may be high maybe right or may be low but this is preseason and its all a guess where they will land.  I do think the top two deserve their places.  Till someone beats them they deserve it IMHO.  The lucky thing is that I don't vote.  For me that is.  I don't know enough about the rest of the D3 to make that call.  But from what you post and the other posters I do get an education. 

[HScoach]

I don't see anything that I could classify as a BIG surprise, but there are a couple smaller ones that I see.

1.  Central in the Top 10.  Not sure why I think that is too high.  Maybe because it's been too long since they were a player outside of the West Region.

2.  Rowan at #10 and Linfield at #14.  Can you say "name recognition"?

3.  Augustana at #20, but Baldwin-Wallace at #26.  Hmmm, BW beat Augie last year and looks to be better in '07.  Think those 2 should be flipped.

4.  Wittenberg receiving votes.  Huh?  They were average in '06 and lost the offense with the graduation of Tristan Murray.  If not for playing in a very weak conference, they'd be lucky to be a .500 team.


My way too early Stagg prediction?  Mount Union vs. St. John's (MN)

[Pat Coleman]

Not sure about Baldwin-Wallace -- they lost three starting linemen, running back, receiver and half their secondary. I did not vote for B-W or Augustana personally.

I agree about Rowan. Based on what Linfield has coming back, though, why not?

At No. 8 Central doesn't have to get out of the West Region. Only the top team in each region, hscoach, counts as getting out of the region. Central is the fourth West Region team in our ranking -- the Dutch only have to win one playoff game to live up to that.

[labart96]

Hey Pat -

TGP knows the LLPP busts your and everyone else's chops, but TGP thinks the fact we have our own pre-season poll (which actually looks pretty good/accurate IMO) is a direct reflection on your and the rest of the D3FB.com staff's efforts since 99.

So, thanks!

TGP

PS - TGP will now go back to being one of those pesky rogue posters in the LLPP (and occasionally in my new backyard of SCIAC).

[smedindy]

Polls, schmolls. D-3 has the stones to name a true national champ, and that's all that matters, really! 

[Ron Boerger]

+k smed. 

[labart96]

Polls, schmolls. D-3 has the stones to name a true national champ, and that's all that matters, really! 

amen to that.

[K-Mack]

Polls, schmolls. D-3 has the stones to name a true national champ, and that's all that matters, really! 

amen to that.

[K-Mack]

K-Mack the statement about no surprises was meant for the top three teams.  4-21 are the ones that are up for grabs in my opinion.  4-8 are really up for grabs.  I know Central is 8 and I follow them.  They finished 11 last year with a first round loss.  Having said that the first round loss was to #3 St Johns who lost to Bethel in the last game of the regular season.  I think every one will have their two cents to share.  #8 for Central may be high maybe right or may be low but this is preseason and its all a guess where they will land.  I do think the top two deserve their places.  Till someone beats them they deserve it IMHO.  The lucky thing is that I don't vote.  For me that is.  I don't know enough about the rest of the D3 to make that call.  But from what you post and the other posters I do get an education. 

Well thanks.

And I accept what you meant. However, I don't even think the top 3 is set. The top 1 is set. They're the only team who earned doubt-free respect through their play last year couple with the percentage of that team who returns.

There are tons of doubts about Whitewater and St. John's, and I personally don't endorse either of those teams as 2 or 3. I could see either one ending up there, but given the amount of turnover both are experiencing, I don't think their performance in last year's playoffs necessarily adds up to what they'll do this year.

That said, the overall poll and the individuals I talked to have a consensus top 9: Mount Union, Whitewater, St. John's, St. John Fisher, UMHB, Wesley, Springfield, Central, UW-La Crosse in some kind of order. And most everyone seemed to have Hardin-Simmons not far after that.

10 and beyond is where it gets silly. For instance, I put Baldwin-Wallace 12th, Pat didn't vote for them at all. I didn't vote for Wartburg (felt a little guilty about that actually) and Gordon told me he had them 16th or something. I had Wheaton in the teens and North Central 21 and Augie unranked, Gordon had Augie in the teens, North Central 21 and Wheaton unranked. Or something like that. I had Wilkes 10, someone else had Wilkes 22 or whatever.

Don't quote me directly, not even sure Gordon was telling me his ballot so I could share it ... it just seemed like that even among three "experts" we couldn't agree on much. Which just goes to show you that there are logical, well thought-out reasons to believe in a lot of teams at this point.

I don't know how much of this I should discuss in the open, not because it's secret, but because I don't want to undermine the process or result.

It's definitely better to get 25 minds (and sets of game-watching eyes) on this rather than just one person alone. Because people put a lot of stock in rankings, and often they can be based on a small sample size or a single opinion. At least a poll has checks and balances in place for one individual's over- or under-rating.

So I still endorse it as the best method.

I just can't figure out why St. John's has 5 starters back on offense, including their star QB, and 6 on D (or something close to that), and then Bethel, who also lost a lot of key guys but returns their QB and an all-American safety (Brandon Carr) would be ranked 21 spots behind.

Bethel beat St. John's 28-13 last year. If the logic is that the past is the past, that's acceptable, but that takes "St. John's went farther in the playoffs" off the table too.

I also don't understand why Capital would be penalized (some say not enough) for losing many of its key performers but other name schools that were gutted or half-gutted weren't.

I'm sure we could nitpick anyone's rankings though. Mine from June in USAT SW weren't perfect (although I am proud to say those rankings largely held up for my first D3 vote, save a few significant moves)

It's just like I struggle constantly with the science of the whole thing.

As mentioned, I'm glad it gets settled on the field.

[K-Mack]

Sorry about the rambling. As you can see, I give these matters lots of thought.

For the non board die-hards, that post above looks like a real skimmer, eh?