Toughest Place to Play in Your Conference

[retagent]

Since I have been included in this, I wanted to make sure that what I said was accurately portrayed, and it was for the most part. My initial response to doclittle was meant to be exactly what Kieth is saying. It also was prompted by a comment that Kieth also addressed about NFL scouts showing interest in Derek Stanley during the season. I thought "What an amazing concept. Actually watching a player during the season instead of waiting for the season to end. This may revolutionize scouting."

I will stand by repete and my earlier comments about Clemens Stadium, though. It is a great place to watch a consistently great team.

[Pat Coleman]

St. John's has the best game-day atmosphere I've ever witnessed in D-III. However, I've only been to 49 of the 234 current stadiums. Who's to say others aren't better?

[wildcat11]

Pat,

From what I've seen in my limited number of stadiums...the nod would have to go to SJU in terms of best game-day atmosphere.  I've only been there once (03 Linfield vs SJU) and I would think that when the place is packed it must be even greater.

However, I think Linfield has probably the best small college game day experience out in the far West.  I think Oxy, Cobber, or Warhawk fans (even Gordon Mann) can testify the Linfield game day experience is pretty darn good.

[frank uible]

Pat: I bet that no one, or next to no one, has been to more. I know that I haven't.

[TC]

SJU's Clemens Stadium is the best in Division 3 football.  That is where the discussion begins and ends.  The field, stands, and press box are modern and top of the line.  The setting--in a natural bowl, surrounded by 100+ year old pine trees--is picturesque and seems to be made for a football field.  The crowd is loyal and knowlegable, consistantly ranking #1 in D3 attendance.  There are 3 rather spirited rivalries--the big one with St. Thomas, the competitive one with Concordia-Moorhead, and the annual bitch-making of Bethel--that always draw a good deal of visiting fans.   Then there are the intangibles that really make the experience unique--Coach Gagliardi, Johnnie Red's pre-game Stiftungsfestivities, the monks in attendance, the fall colors, kids sliding down the hill in the snow, etc.

When SI recognized Clemens Stadium as one of the Top 10 Place to Watch College Football, it wasn't simply comparing SJU to the other 233 D3 schools--it was recognizing them above the, what, 500 or 600 so other college venues of all divisions.  It is that great.

---

Biased SJU-centric stadium rant aside, some observations on other stadia I have visited:

Concordia-Moorhead--Likely the toughest road trip in the MIAC between the long road trip and perma-crappy weather.  The stadium itself is old and basic, but the fans are passionate and knowledgable.

St. Thomas--St. John's urban counterpoint.  The stadium's pretty decent.  It's shaped like a castle.  Funny how as soon as SJU got SprinTurf UST had to have it...  All in all, a very nice field.

Bethel--Dude, you stole that chant from Duke.  Stop it. 

UW-Whitewater--Nice, big stadium, but it's got to get a little lonely there during the lean years.  I got to snoop around in the coach's offices before the game and they were very nice.  They had an alumni tailgate with free food before the SJU game, which was a nice touch.  It seemed kinda strange that they had to delay the start of a playoff game to clear the field, but all in all it was a nice stadium.

Central (IA)--They could certainly tailgate.  Other than that, the field itself was pretty ordinary. 

Mount Union--The stadium had an old-time grandstand feel to it, which was pretty unique.  The team has earned it (and I know a lot of people feel the same way about SJU fans), but they were the most smug, cocksure fans I have ever seen.  It was ridiculous.  And if one more person would have told me to "Try the brunch, it's delicious" I would be  serving time right now.  Obviously a successful program, and you can feel it when you're on campus for gameday.

[Gray Fox]

Concordia-Moorhead--Likely the toughest road trip in the MIAC between the long road trip and perma-crappy weather.  The stadium itself is old and basic, but the fans are passionate and knowledgable.

If they get into the playoffs they get to play indoors at the local dome.  Especially if they are playing a team from the SCIAC. 8)

[Gray Fox]

Central (IA)--They could certainly tailgate.  Other than that, the field itself was pretty ordinary. 

OxyBob attended a game there and  I think he might disagree on the field.

[Jonny Utah]

K-Mack,

check this out.  Pretty cool 360 view of Ithacas Butterfield Stadium.  Probably exactly what you were looking for....

http://www.ithaca.edu/tour/athletics.php?see=panos

And actually if you look to the left of the pressbox in the second row down, you can see a blue mark on one of the rows (seats).  Thats where Jim Butterfield's wife Lois watches the games.  On it it says "The big "L" sits here".

Kind of cool d3 nostalgia anyway.......

[K-Mack]

St. John's has the best game-day atmosphere I've ever witnessed in D-III. However, I've only been to 49 of the 234 current stadiums. Who's to say others aren't better?

Pat: I bet that no one, or next to no one, has been to more. I know that I haven't.

I might come close if I count the ones I've played in, which gives me about 10-12 freebies ... but then again, Pat's been to most of those and I've been to many of them as a journalist too, so it's not that big of an advantage.

I'm still working on my overall count, but I think Pat is ahead of me.

Together we were wondering if we'd hit 100.

I think if we had a five-man team over five years, or something, we might be able to see every stadium.

[Pat Coleman]

I just saw Coast Guard Academy for the second time this past weekend and it reminded me that both Coast Guard and the Merchant Marine Academy have great atmospheres and settings. There were only about 4,500 people there this weekend but Coast Guard's stadium overlooks the water (not surprisingly) and the leaves were turning. Was a great setting for a football game.

You can't have a legitimate discussion without at least one of those stadiums. Just because the team isn't in the Top 10 doesn't mean the stadium can't qualify for this discussion, guys.

[K-Mack]

SJU's Clemens Stadium is the best in Division 3 football.  That is where the discussion begins and ends.  The field, stands, and press box are modern and top of the line. 

I'd bet you everything I own it's not the best stadium. Best game day atmosphere, probably. There is definitely a difference/distinction.

When SI recognized Clemens Stadium as one of the Top 10 Place to Watch College Football, it wasn't simply comparing SJU to the other 233 D3 schools--it was recognizing them above the, what, 500 or 600 so other college venues of all divisions.  It is that great.

My point is that it's a hollow honor if used to compare, given that no one I know has seen enough Division II, III or NAIA stadiums to really say for sure. My guess is that SI has seen less than a dozen D3 stadiums. Who is to say St. John's is better than Ithaca or Amherst or Linfield or Mount Union or Augustana, etc. -- also places where history and success both loom large and cross paths -- unless they've seen them to compare? Or at least asked around.

You know what I mean? You can't go to the library, read 5 books and say "this book here is the best one in the whole library." You say "this is a really good book."

So SI's honor, to me, is "St. John's is a cool place to watch a game" not "St. John's is the No. 1 place out of all that exist to watch a game."

It's nitpicking, and I'm sure it'll be misconstrued as St. John's hate, which it isn't ... Certainly it's easy to make a case for SJU as one of the best places to see a game just off Gaglardi's history alone ... I'm just railing against the use of  "best in Division III" this year, whether it be "we have the best cornerbacks in Division III" and you watch the same team every week or whatever. In my humble opinion too many people fail to recognize the enormity of the division. There are great players and stadiums and rivalries all to be enjoyed, and practically more than we can count.

I'm not a fan of people touting things as "the best" unless they have a wide perspective. "The best I've seen" works great instead.

[Pat Coleman]

Unless the press box has changed significantly since I was last there in 2003, it's not even in the top 10 press boxes. Two other press boxes just among the stadiums you listed as having seen blow SJU's away.

A press box is not even close to the be-all and end-all of a stadium or its atmosphere, don't get me wrong, but just a heads-up that you're way off there.

[K-Mack]

You can't have a legitimate discussion without at least one of those stadiums. Just because the team isn't in the Top 10 doesn't mean the stadium can't qualify for this discussion, guys.

My point exactly. I maintain my favorite fields/stadiums as Widener and North Central, but just about everywhere has some appeal to it, whether it be Western Maryland's bowl where you can watch the game from your car, Mount Union's grandstand with overhang, Whitworth's pine trees and old wooden press box (IIRC), Randolph-Macon and Cornell and Gettysburg with the trains going by, the classic campuses at W&L and Amherst, the palm-lined streets at Redlands ... the list really does go on. I find something unique and enjoyable at just about all of them.

I have heard great things about Coast Guard, Middlebury, etc. And some places the campus just wows you.

[Pat Coleman]

I just ran down my list of 49 stadiums. Ten have better press boxes than St. John's and an 11th is borderline. But hey, it's a pretty good press box if only 10 of my 49 definitely beat it.

Still nearly 190 I haven't seen.

[Ralph Turner]

Pat, did you include Shotwell (Abilene Public Schools) Stadium where McMurry has played on occasion and HSU's Shelton Stadium?  I won't mention the old decrepit McMurry press box, which I hope will be replaced as soon as possible.  (We have the new turf and track tho'.)

You also get to add Belton High School's stadium this weekend.

Consider the historic Stagecaoch Inn in Salsdo for your eating pleasure.  I am sure the locals will have some good places to eat as well.