MBB: American Rivers Conference

Charlie Kohawk · January 13, 2006, 05:02:42 PM

Brungard separated his shoulder and has been recuperating. He should be good to go soon, making Coe all the better.

Gregory Sager · January 13, 2006, 06:02:29 PM

Keith, are you interested in the conference rankings of the formal computerized rating websites such as Massey, or in the informal rankings of Posting Up's national observers? Speaking for the latter, I'd say that the IIAC is generally considered to be a notch below the MIAC. That might not hold true for this year, though; the IIAC is an excellent 46-30 in non-conference play (Buena Vista was drastically down in November and December, but Coe, Dubuque, and Loras were uncharacteristically successful outside the circuit, and Wartburg was its usual reliable self), while the MIAC is its usual mediocre 26-28. Head-to-head, the IIAC has gone 3-2 against the MIAC, but that's too small a sample size to take seriously as far as conference head-to-heads are concerned.

Drake Palmer · January 13, 2006, 06:49:11 PM

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2006, 06:02:29 PM
...(Buena Vista was drastically down in November and December, but Coe, Dubuque, and Loras were uncharacteristically successful outside the circuit, and Wartburg was its usual reliable self), while the MIAC is its usual mediocre 26-28. Head-to-head, the IIAC has gone 3-2 against the MIAC, but that's too small a sample size to take seriously as far as conference head-to-heads are concerned.

OOOh, slow burn Uncle Greg, little MIAC eyes are reading! Now we know how you really feel about our conference.

See if I steer anymore Covies down your direction! There's another Berg at Mpls Washburn that I hear is sitting on the fence - NPU or MIAC?

Let's see, Covies to Lutherans - I think that will work.

Gregory Sager · January 13, 2006, 07:37:06 PM

Quote from: Drake Palmer on January 13, 2006, 06:49:11 PMOOOh, slow burn Uncle Greg, little MIAC eyes are reading! Now we know how you really feel about our conference.

I'm not bashing your circuit, Drake. Just engaging an honest question from Keith45 with my usual candor.

Here's how the MIAC has fared in non-conference play over the past four seasons:

2005-06: 26-28 (.481)
2004-05: 28-36 (.378)
2003-04: 33-32 (.508)
2002-03: 39-30 (.565)

TOTAL: 126-126 (.500)

Since mediocre literally means "in the middle", what better word is there to describe a conference's performance when it has evenly split its non-conf games over the past four seasons?

Quote from: Drake Palmer on January 13, 2006, 06:49:11 PMOOOh, slow burn Uncle Greg, little MIAC eyes are reading! Now we know how you really feel about our conference. See if I steer anymore Covies down your direction! There's another Berg at Mpls Washburn that I hear is sitting on the fence - NPU or MIAC?

We'd love to have any more Bergs from Washburn that you care to send down to us. We do appreciate the original model. We only request that you make the next one a wee bit taller.

Charlie Kohawk · January 14, 2006, 12:22:34 AM

Great game tonight at Eby Fieldhouse -- two great games in fact. Both Coe victories in overtime, but Central gave great effort on Coe's home court. I can't wait until the students return and establish a home court advantage.

Drake Palmer · January 14, 2006, 12:56:48 AM

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2006, 07:37:06 PM
Since mediocre literally means "in the middle", what better word is there to describe a conference's performance when it has evenly split its non-conf games over the past four seasons?

While I respect the typical Sager "candor", I would have preferred you used a lighter touch around the keyboard instead of the words "usual mediocrity". For me, mediocrity reminds me of the phrase "mired in mediocrity", or shudder, just plain old "average". And as a Minnesotan, you know we have problems with being just average.

In the words of noted Minnesota wordsmith Garrison Keillor as he introduces his radio show - "Welcome to Lake Wobegon (Minnesota), where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average." We'd like to think our MIAC basketball teams are above average too.

Maybe next time you could point out how the MIAC's typically, mediocre non conference record, have yielded surprisingly strong, post season results? I don't have the information readily at my fingertips, but if one of my fellow MIAC or West region posters stumbles across this thread mebbe they can help me out.

It would be interesting to know how well the mid level D3 conferences have done in post season play. Perhaps something along the lines of:

16 points - national championship final
12 points - final four
8 points - regional final
4 points – regional final four
2 points – regionals
1 points – second round

Hmm – isn't what I'm suggesting what you or Pat refer to as an "Ypsi"? Asking someone else to do your research for you?

Well, if this hasn't been done before, if you or someone else point me in the right direction, I'll see what I can look up over the next couple of days.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2006, 07:37:06 PM
We'd love to have any more Bergs from Washburn that you care to send down to us. We do appreciate the original model. We only request that you make the next one a wee bit taller.

I don't know if I can help you out much with the younger Berg's height. Stefan is only listed as 5-10 on the Washburn roster. With names like Stefan & Bjorn, I'm assuming they're related and their parents are big-time tennis fans.

Gregory Sager · January 14, 2006, 09:40:02 AM

Quote from: Drake Palmer on January 14, 2006, 12:56:48 AMHmm – isn't what I'm suggesting what you or Pat refer to as an "Ypsi"? Asking someone else to do your research for you? Well, if this hasn't been done before, if you or someone else point me in the right direction, I'll see what I can look up over the next couple of days.

Very astute of you to avoid being accused of an Ypsi, Drake.

I had all of this data a year or so ago, but I lost it all when I moved last March. Researching this will be a bit time-consuming for you, but it doesn't have to be terribly tedious if you restrict your research to a few select conferences with which you think the MIAC is comparable.

I would suggest, though, that you post the results in another room. The best room for it would be "Research and historical results" on the Multi-Regional Topics tree. If you do want to keep it here, however, I would strongly suggest that you include the IIAC on the list of conferences with which you'd like to compare the MIAC in terms of postseason play. We don't want to bother our good friends from the Hawkeye State with a lot of talk that doesn't concern them.

How do you go about it? Easy. Go out to the D3hoops.com front page and click on the Archives link in the right-hand blue column. It has the line scores for every D3 tournament game ever played, all the way back to the first tourney in March, 1975. The last few seasons have D3hoops.com's tourney coverage linked via the Archives, so you might have to click through an extra page to get to the bracket listing, which is where the results are kept.

If you get stuck on something -- let's say you want to know when Wittenberg transferred from the OAC to the NCAC, or when the NESCAC finally permitted its teams to participate in the tourney -- don't hesitate to send me an e-mail.

Happy researching!

The Show · January 14, 2006, 11:17:56 AM

That's more like it...4 for 4 last night! 8)

Pat Coleman · January 14, 2006, 06:31:17 PM

Since the playoffs took their current form, with Pool B and C and 30-some automatic bids:

Conference W L Pct.
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference 24 6 .800
Ohio Athletic Conference 16 6 .727
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association 13 6 .684
New England Small College Athletic Conference 21 11 .656
Capital Athletic Conference 13 7 .650
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin 15 9 .625
University Athletic Association 14 9 .609
New Jersey Athletic Conference 12 8 .600
New England Women's and Men's Athletic Conference 11 8 .579
State University of New York Athletic Conference 9 7 .563
Great South Athletic Conference 7 6 .538
MAC Freedom League 7 6 .538
Massachusetts State Collegiate Athletic Conference 7 6 .538
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference 10 9 .526
Old Dominion Athletic Conference 12 11 .522
North Coast Athletic Conference 9 9 .500
Northwest Conference 8 8 .500
Little East Conference 7 7 .500
Centennial Conference 6 6 .500
MAC Commonwealth League 6 7 .462
Liberty League 5 6 .455
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference 5 6 .455
American Southwest Conference 7 9 .438
Midwest Conference 5 7 .417
Pennsylvania Athletic Conference 5 7 .417
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference 4 6 .400
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference 4 6 .400
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference 4 6 .400
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference 3 5 .375
Skyline Conference 3 6 .333
USA South Athletic Conference 3 6 .333
Presidents' Athletic Conference 1 2 .333
Empire 8 2 6 .250
City University of New York Athletic Conference 1 6 .143
Great Northeast Athletic Conference 1 6 .143
Northern Illinois-Iowa Conference 1 7 .125
Independents 1 9 .100
North Eastern Athletic Conference 0 1 .000
North Atlantic Conference 0 5 .000
Commonwealth Coast Conference 0 6 .000
Lake Michigan Conference 0 6 .000
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference 0 6 .000

Drake Palmer · January 15, 2006, 12:27:07 AM

Thanks Pat! You saved me hours of research. I did follow Greg's suggestion, went to the archives & made copies of the tourney results from previous years. I'll play around with the data & see if there are any noteworthy trends or observations.

Thanks again.

coocooforcoekohawk · January 15, 2006, 07:54:39 AM

The score listed on d3hoops is the women's game. Coe beat Luther 77 to 65, thus remaining undefeated in IIAC play.

http://www.coe.edu/athletics/

or

http://www.coe.edu/athletics/basketballm/stats/13-lut.htm

Pat Coleman · January 15, 2006, 02:35:54 PM

Thanks.

We rely on schools to post the scores correctly and sometimes they can't manage this.

However, please e-mail me, don't post on the message board looking for our attention on this. There are a ton of message boards but only a couple of mailboxes. I'll see the mail faster, nine times out of 10.

coocooforcoekohawk · January 15, 2006, 09:48:05 PM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 15, 2006, 02:35:54 PM
Thanks.

We rely on schools to post the scores correctly and sometimes they can't manage this.

Sorry Pat,

I didn't think to email you.
As far as our SID goes, I haven't been impressed.

The Show · January 17, 2006, 12:21:20 PM

I'll take BV, Simpson, Central, and Coe tonight.

I know it's been said previously, but it's too bad that some of the bigger games are played on Tues. nights this year.

It does look like BV is streaming the game live tonight from their website...

sportsknight · January 17, 2006, 04:32:58 PM

I wouldn't count on listening to a BV webcast tonight Show. All the games you mentioned are tomorrow.