MBB: American Rivers Conference

[B.Ver]

It also could be that ifyou lost to a team by one and two points twice you maybe thinking we tried everything we just keep falling short and that will take more out of you than if you lost bad to them.

[doolittledog]

Coe up 4 at the half, 35-31.

Congrats to Dubuque for advancing.  Good news: You advance.  Bad news: You have to get on a bus and head to Storm Lake.

That is why I was sort of hoping Loras would have won the season ending game in Storm Lake.  That way if Dubuque won their first round game they would have had a 4 MINUTE drive over to Loras instead of the 4 HOUR drive it is to Storm Lake.  And I think Dubuque plays Loras closer than BV.  A Loras matchup I think would have been a close game with Loras eventually pulling out the win...Dubuque against BV I don't think will be close.   

[LCfan]

BVer.....I would disagree with you in this case.  3 guys fouling out and White fouling out down 1 with over 3 minutes to play, 35 free throws for BV in the last game compared to 10 for Loras. I dont think Loras has done everything possible to win.  Like I said I hope there is a chance for another Loras vs. BV.

[youcantseemestill]

Griffin LaDew was very good last night in Eby Fieldhouse.  Coe's Hanna (one of if not the best on ball defender in the conference) was in his face on every shot.  I don't remember him making one shot that looked even close to easy.  Coe made 7 less field goals than Cornell, but had a 30-10 advantage in points from the stripe.  Coe was led, once again, by Kyle Kuenstling with 19 pts and 12 boards.  Even more impressive considering Cornell's dramatic size advantage. 

While it will be hard for him to win the MVP, my vote would go to White, I think he is the best all-around player in the conference.

[du-sz]

Big games on Thursday.  I'm taking BV over UD by 12.  The Beavers' guards can keep up with Blum and Daugherty, and their size and ability will kill UD underneath. 

In the other game I'll take Loras over Coe by 5.  Despite getting past the Kohawks a lot lately, Loras has struggled with them on almost every occassion.  I'm sure Kuenstling will give the Duhawks fits and he'll get some help from his Dunkerton teammate Brungard and the rest of the guards.  With that said, I just don't think it will be enough.  The Loras defense is too good to let anyone really go off on them from outside, and White and Slater are too solid on both ends of the court not to counterbalance Kuenstling.

[duhawkdanran]

I'd like a UD/Loras rematch at the new AWC in Dubuque on saturday but I think Loras will be traveling to Storm Lake for the second time in 1 week.

BV was in this same situation last year.

Loras over Coe by 9 - Loras will come out firing after saturday

BV over UD by 3 - UD guards will keep it close but BV's size will dominate

[The Show]

I didn't realize Dubuque was so under-sized or unskilled in the post?  Of course, I haven't seen them play this year either.

[Klopenhiemer]

Ypsi, my research was based off a BV season where they played a team three times.  I was not looking at who had won the first or the second.  I was not divulging that deep into.  I was merely taking this for face value.  Beating a team 3 times in one season is a difficult task, and from MY PERSONAL experiences, is something that I have seen on very rare occasion.  I did not take into consideration who won game one, who was the underdog, and who's mother was in the 4th row with her top off. 

As I have stated twice over now, I did not refute what Greg was saying, I did agree with his logic, I was merely trying to show my logic, wheather you thought it is illogical is for you to decide. 

One thing that has been mentioned time and time again is that you are tried of coachspeak, and sports cliches.  I get tried of a few people who seem to deam themselves and their explanations as "hollier than all".  For all intensive purposes this is a chat room, where ideas are expressed.  You have yours, and I have mine.  This is a great way to share ideas, and learn something new.  This is not a place to give sermon or lecture. 

You both seem to have a very high ideology regarding the game of basketball.  I can respect that.  I hope that you are both putting this to good use, either by coaching, speaking at coaching clinincs, but not speading creamy blather all over internet message boards. 

[Dr. Phil]

This is how the last 2 games went for Coe vs Loras

Game 1  Loras wins 72-69 at Loras

2 pt field goal % 45.7 Coe // 57.1 Loras
3 pt field goal % 47.4 Coe //  31.3 Loras
free throw percent 85.7 Coe // 78.6 Loras
bench points  39 Coe // 7 Loras

Score by Periods              1st  2nd   Total
Coe College Kohawks.......37   32  -   69
Loras College.................   29   43  -   72

Coe had a 10 point lead with 5:10 left in the game an blew it!!
A bunch of ill advised shots with the lead, was the major contributor to this loss

Game 2  Loras wins  67-59

2 pt field goal % 38.3 Coe // 56 Loras
3 pt field goal % 28.6 Coe //  18.2 Loras
free throw percent 70 Coe // 47.4 Loras
bench points  20 Coe // 10 Loras

Score by Periods              1st  2nd   Total
Coe College Kohawks.......24   35  -   59
Loras College.................   32   35  -   67

Loras led the entire 2nd half, but only had a 3 point lead with about 11 minutes left.

What stands out here is a couple of things - If I am the Loras brainchild, I would be concerned with the lack of bench scoring and the poor 3 point percentage.  Also if Coe gets to the line on a regular basis, this could be a difference maker in the game.

The Coe coaching staff, has to be concerned with the multiple scoring threats on the floor for Loras.  Its tough to stop everyone.  They need to keep the tempo high and need to score 35-40 points at the half.  If its a slow down game, it could spell disaster for Coe.  They also need leadership on the floor if the game is tight and cannot take ill advised shots if they are up. The "veterans" need to have the ball in their hands down the stretch.

Should be a good one. Coe can win this game and are feeling confident that they can hang in there. All they want is to have a close game with 3 minutes left and anything can happen at the end!

Lets just pray the officials wont be the show Thursday night.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Klop, I apologize that you were so offended - that was not my intention.

Obviously the ONLY time that the "it's tough to beat a team 3 times" cliche comes into play is if one team won the first two games.  I simply sought to see if your 'evidence' was relevant - it turns out it was not.

No offense intended, but it is still an illogical and historically wrong cliche.  If you are a gambler, if one team has won the first two times BET on them the third time!  You will win far more often than you will lose.

[Gregory Sager]

Ypsi, my research was based off a BV season where they played a team three times.  I was not looking at who had won the first or the second.  I was not divulging that deep into.  I was merely taking this for face value.  Beating a team 3 times in one season is a difficult task, and from MY PERSONAL experiences, is something that I have seen on very rare occasion.  I did not take into consideration who won game one, who was the underdog, and who's mother was in the 4th row with her top off. 

As I have stated twice over now, I did not refute what Greg was saying, I did agree with his logic, I was merely trying to show my logic, wheather you thought it is illogical is for you to decide. 

One thing that has been mentioned time and time again is that you are tried of coachspeak, and sports cliches.  I get tried of a few people who seem to deam themselves and their explanations as "hollier than all".  For all intensive purposes this is a chat room, where ideas are expressed.  You have yours, and I have mine.  This is a great way to share ideas, and learn something new.  This is not a place to give sermon or lecture. 

You both seem to have a very high ideology regarding the game of basketball.  I can respect that.  I hope that you are both putting this to good use, either by coaching, speaking at coaching clinincs, but not speading creamy blather all over internet message boards. 

Why are you so defensive? There's nothing "holier than thou" at all about what Mr. Y or I have said. It's a simple, polite Internet debate. For all intents and purposes, it's ultimately of no great import to anyone involved. We chose a factual approach to our argument, and you chose an anecdotal approach. Doing so was strictly your call, not ours.

It's really not that big of a deal. Don't be so thin-skinned.

[doolittledog]

Well, you are showing logic but are you showing facts???  Have you produced scores of third games where a team won the first two and also won the third vs lost the third???  Not that I am seeing.  Klop, Sager and Yipsi could all be right for all we know.  Nobody has really thrown out any data for teams that won twice in a row and then what happened in that third game. 

[The Show]

I did not take into consideration who won game one, who was the underdog, and who's mother was in the 4th row with her top off.

The consideration level would probably hinge upon how hot the mother in the 4th row was...

[The Show]

Don't be so thin-skinned.

Klop eats too much to be thin-skinned, trust me!   

[Gregory Sager]

Well, you are showing logic but are you showing facts???  Have you produced scores of third games where a team won the first two and also won the third vs lost the third???  Not that I am seeing.  Klop, Sager and Yipsi could all be right for all we know.  Nobody has really thrown out any data for teams that won twice in a row and then what happened in that third game. 

There's more to making your argument factual than merely presenting analytical data. There are also the facts presented into evidence that: a) Klop's analytical data were flawed, because they weren't examples of win-win-lose season series; b) the examples cited did not represent a true cross-section of the IIAC, since they did not involve bottom-tier teams; and c) statistically speaking, probability increases with incidence (or however our resident stats prof Mr. Y words the principle that the more something occurs the more likely it is to keep on occurring in the future).

Yeah, I could've added the analytical data, but I really haven't given thought to all the time it would take to marshal enough evidence from various D3 leagues that have eight-team conference tourneys to prove the point empirically. I suppose that if I keep protesting the "it's tough to beat a team three times" platitude in enough conference rooms, I'm going to be stuck with gathering all that data sooner or later whether I really want to or not.