MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Gregory Sager]

Didn't think I was being inflammatory, but I suppose I do have that power. 

The schedule is actually a little tougher in 08-09 than it has been in the past few years, with likely games against Eau Claire, Wartburg or Jamestown, Concordia U. St. Paul, Gordon (MA.), and a game at UW-Superior.   There's plenty of talent returning despite losing all the experience.    Don't be surprised when you see the UMAC champs in March.

with all due respect to northwestern basketball ( i DO like the way they play), i would still be surprised if they were an "at large" bid during the upcoming post-season.   their preseason schedule does include the likes of uwrf, augsburg and concordia-st. paul, but their last 14 games of the year contain far too many cupcakes to warrant an at-large post season ncaa bid.  put a few more northwestern-like schools in their league---now that would be a horse of a slightly different color.   

I will beat sensei Sager to the punch....pre conference schedule, they are already in season when they start playing games.

You have learned well, my pupil.

[VOJ]

Interesting story in the Star-Tri this morning...

http://www.startribune.com/local/west/27156204.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUo8cyaiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU

On another note...if Northwestern is serious about making a run at a pool B bid or whatever pool bid they might be eligible for, they need to change that schedule to a mostly DIII list, just one man's opinion...

[AO]

I'm not really sure where to begin.  It's amazing how many people count a team out before they play a single game.  The schedule has plenty of in-region non-conference games against quality opponents.  Northwestern didn't schedule an NAIA tournament this year, as they have done in the past to boost their rating for the NCCAA D-1 rankings.  Pool B has been sending 7 loss teams to the tournament every year. We also would have made it into the tourney a couple of years ago if we were eligible, according to one of the coaches on the selection committee.

---Did anyone else think Royce White considering the academic problems when they read that headline in the Strib about the Hopkins star robbing a bank?  What was DiLoretto thinking?  They're not going to recognize a gangly 7-footer if he puts on a hoody?

[Drake Palmer]

I'm not really sure where to begin....

Then don't. Joking around is one thing but to make these preposterous claims is another.  Save it for the football board.

Those 7 loss NCAA tourney teams you refer to had far superior overall QOWI index or whatever they call it, then your beloved Northwestern Eagles.  Those teams also didn't lose to the likes of Presentation College, Martin Luther, Bethany Lutheran, Finlandia, Macalester, etc.  Earn your D3 NCAA hoops stripes then you can talk smack. 

[AO]

QOWI is no longer used.  You're going to lose a few games to inferior opponents if you play them enough in basketball, it's just the nature of the game.  I never made the claim you can lose to all of the teams you mentioned and still make it into the tournament.   At the same time you don't have to be perfect in your conference or non-conference games to make it to the tourney.  Northwestern has been playing at or above the level of competition in the D-3 tourney and doing well.  We didn't move up from d-4 to d-3.

I really have no idea how the team is going to be this year.  There are some holes to fill with underclassmen and the reports I heard from summer league weren't amazing.  They could easily go 15-10, but if they do go 20-5 or 21-4, it's doubtful they wouldn't get in.  It's never too early to start talking playoffs.   Minnesota teams colliding in the playoffs is definitely going to be exciting.

[Ralph Turner]

...
On another note...if Northwestern is serious about making a run at a pool B bid or whatever pool bid they might be eligible for, they need to change that schedule to a mostly DIII list, just one man's opinion...

Pool B status is up in the air. 

The 12-member NATHC moves to Pool A, but 4 new UMAC schools and UMPI come to D3 from provisional status.

The New England Collegiate Conference will pull a few schools from Pool A conferences into Pool B this season.

Pool B was right" on the cusp" between 3 and 4 bids last year, so I remains to be seen how many schools constitute Pool B.  Handbook should be out in October.

Northwestern does need to bulk up its in-region non-conference schedule.

[Drake Palmer]

QOWI is no longer used.  You're going to lose a few games to inferior opponents if you play them enough in basketball, it's just the nature of the game.  I never made the claim you can lose to all of the teams you mentioned and still make it into the tournament. ...

Oh yeah, I forgot, the OWP & OOWP was used last year (Opponents Winning Percentage & Opponents' Opponents Winning Percentage).  In any event, I believe NW lost all of those games I listed last season.  Hardly the type of record that would make the selection committee think - "man, that 20-9 Northwestern team in Minnesota had a bunch of quality losses." I don't think so. 

But let's take a look the UMAC's St. Scholastica in baseball.  I think the Tommies and the rest of the upper midwest D3 schools will agree – the Saints in blue & gold are a force to be reckoned with in regular & post-season play.

On the other hand, the UMAC's Northwestern in basketball?  The MIACers curl their lips and sneer - "you couldn't even put away Macalester on your home court with home court officials."  Aah yes, I remember that game well – Stephen Hanson of NW had a nice block, it was the 08-09 swan song of the Macalester Scots, the coming out party for MAC FY Colin Keeley and his last good game for the Scots. Oh yeah, someone told me they carted AO out on a stretcher after that monumental  collapse by the Eagles. 

[AO]

Wow, home court referees?  are you serious?  Perhaps the bribe should have been a little higher considering they called a phantom foul in the final seconds which gave the game to macalester.  The scots didn't look terrible early in the season beating the Tommie's and whatnot, but it's definitely not a loss you want when trying to get into pool B. 

FYI, Northwestern is still well above .500 against the MIAC in basketball the past five years.

Scholastica is definitely a force on the diamond.  It's only a matter of time before they see some post-season success on the hardwood and gridiron as well.

[carletonsid]

I didn't believe you, and since I'm laid up in bed I looked up your statement.

2007-08 (1-2 vs. MIAC, 1-3 vs. non-UMAC D3)
Nov. 20 vs. Augsburg W, 77-62     
Dec. 15 at Luther L, 69-63
Dec. 29 vs. Macalester L, 83-82     
Jan. 2 at Hamline L, 88-84

2006-07 (3-0 vs. MIAC, 4-2 vs. non-UMAC D3)
Nov. 21  vs. Macalester  W, 85-70
Nov. 25 vs. Hamline W, 79-78    
Dec. 6 vs. Luther W, 74-62
Dec. 30  at Augsburg W, 91-77     
Jan. 2 at Gordon L, 87-82    
Jan. 4 at Keene State L, 82-73

2005-06 (3-0 vs. MIAC, 4-1 vs. non-UMAC D3)
Nov 22 at Macalester W 75-61
Nov 26 at Hamline W 78-77
Dec 2 at Principia (n) W 88-57 (finished 2-22)
Dec 10 at Luther L 69-64
Dec 30 Augsburg W 60-47

2004-05 (2-1 vs. MIAC, 3-1 vs. non-UMAC D3)
Nov 23 Macalester W 70-68
Nov 27 Hamline W 78-66
Dec 11 Luther W 51-49
Dec 30 at Augsburg L 80-77

2003-04 (0-2 vs. MIAC, 3-8 vs. non-UMAC D3),
Nov 21 at Concordia (Wis.) (n) W 87-80 2OT
Nov 25 at St. Thomas L 82-74
Nov 28 at UW-Stout  L 84-60
Nov 29 Wisconsin Lutheran (n) L 98-88
Dec 6 at Luther W 64-57
Dec 13 Wheaton (Ill.) L 64-57
Dec 19 UW-River Falls L 69-41
Dec 30 Macalester L 79-66
Jan 2 at Whittier L 88-84
Jan 3 at Gordon (n) W 71-63
Jan 5 at Redlands L 117-102

Total: 9-5 vs. MIAC, 13-15 vs. non-UMAC D3 schools

Of those 9 wins, 3 vs. Mac, 3 vs. Augsburg and 3 vs. Hamline. During that time span, Hamline (05-06) and Macalester (04-05) made the MIAC Playoffs, both as the sixth seed.

The other thing to consider is that while Northwestern does have a winning record against its limited MIAC opposition, they do that with a much easier schedule than the rest of the MIAC. Has Northwestern ever beaten one of its MIAC foes after playing Gustavus and St. Thomas on a Monday/Wednesday? Or after a Monday game at Concordia, Wednesday at St. John's and Saturday at Bethel? I think Northwestern has a nice program and undoubtedly they'll have the inside track on the UMAC AQ when that comes into play, but to boast that Northwestern could hang in the MIAC, the results would point more towards a 7th place or lower finish... the track record just isn't there.

You're actually doing your program a disservice by getting on here and making these claims. I've seen Northwestern play and love the way they compete... let their game speak for itself. No need to brag it up. If they're that good, everyone will recognize it and give them their props, not because you get on here and spout off about how great they are.

I'd rather be golfing...

[Drake Palmer]

I didn't believe you, and since I'm laid up in bed I looked up your statement....

The other thing to consider is that while Northwestern does have a winning record against its limited MIAC opposition, they do that with a much easier schedule than the rest of the MIAC. Has Northwestern ever beaten one of its MIAC foes after playing Gustavus and St. Thomas on a Monday/Wednesday? Or after a Monday game at Concordia, Wednesday at St. John's and Saturday at Bethel? I think Northwestern has a nice program and undoubtedly they'll have the inside track on the UMAC AQ when that comes into play, but to boast that Northwestern could hang in the MIAC, the results would point more towards a 7th place or lower finish… the track record just isn't there.

You're actually doing your program a disservice by getting on here and making these claims. I've seen Northwestern play and love the way they compete... let their game speak for itself. No need to brag it up. If they're that good, everyone will recognize it and give them their props, not because you get on here and spout off about how great they are.

I'd rather be golfing…

Kudos to the Carleton SID. +K 

I looked up those same stats you had but declined to post them since I didn't have the time you unfortunately have,  or want to create the impression I was trying to run AO off the board. 

I would also add that in 02-03 when Northwestern played teams from the top half of the MIAC they went 0-3, & 0-5 overall against the MIAC.  They lost to 1st place UST 81-51, 8th place Hamline, 5th place St. Olaf 84-71, 10th place MAC, & 2nd place Carleton 68-61.

[AO]

You didn't believe me, so you looked it up and I was proved correct.  Those games do speak for themselves and this is why I didn't attempt to create hypothetical matchups between Northwestern and other MIAC teams based upon score comparisons or conference placement as you chose to do.

The point is that we won't have to wait much longer to compare the top teams from the UMAC to the top teams in the MIAC.  There are some great natural rivalries out there due to the proximity of the schools. Gustavus vs. Bethany Lutheran has been interesting the past 2 years, and I'm hoping Northwestern and Bethel can find a way to put each other on the schedule regularly in the future.  This means that those November games which were formerly our only means of comparison will mean more as they will both be competing for the same ultimate prize.  Up until 04-05 all of the Northwestern vs. MIAC games were essentially exhibition games as we were NAIA.

As for the difficult scheduling and whatnot of the MIAC, I'd say the UMAC Roadtrips can get a little difficult when you have a tough game on friday night followed by an afternoon game against a solid team who beat up on the Crown the previous night and didn't have to play their starters in the 2nd half can be pretty difficult as well.  The MIAC might want to consider the Friday, Saturday and occasional Tuesday thrown in if Monday, Wednesday, Saturday is such a grind. I supposeit could be difficult to bus up to Moorhead after playing in Collegeville.  It's no picnic having to bus over to Aberdeen from Morris as you might have been able to tell from our occasional road loss to Presentation when we handle them by 30 at home.  Back on the plus side, it keeps the kids off the streets.


and one for Drake:
You're right Drake, perhaps 5 years was too long as your 2002-2003 comparison is absolutely worthless when comparing two teams in 08-09, so maybe we'll chop off 03-04 as well which would put NWC at 9-3 against the MIAC.  Don't worry fellas' it won't be a numbers game for long.....

[Willy Wonka]

Does AO remind anyone else of Skip Bayless? How he loves to make a retarded "point" and defend it to the death in the most annoying way humanly possible?

And, if this "conversation" were happening at a local establishment — say, Pattys or The Rube — how many times would AO have been punched in the face in the last week? And how many of the MIAC SIDs would be involved?

If that number is lower than 100%, I'd be fairly shocked.

PS - Speaking of punching people in the face...I had an old Johnnie contractor come look at my roof today and tell me I had no weather damage, despite BIG hail and a tornado swirling through a month ago. To top it off, I had to listen to him extol the holy virtues of Gags for a good 20 minutes after he denied me my insurance money. Awesome.

And while I'm here...work with Wonka.

http://www.journalismjobs.com/Job_Listing.cfm?JobID=964712

[wohlerfan]

First, he's basically a Minnesota legend and there aren't too many places you can go, except maybe north country, where people don't know who he is.

Wohler very well might be a legend, but it certainly isnt due to his collegiate basketball legacy, which is kind of what his departure should be judged on, no? 30-47 overall, and 12 games under .500 in the MIAC isnt my idea of "turning it around". So, again, he made the right move to head back to the high school level. Cord Of The North, I dont doubt that he left of his own volition, but I believe many associated with Hamline hoops had no problem watching him go. Thats why its not a surprise, however newsworthy of a move it might have been. To Local, and others, who mentioned Hamlines lack of attention to sports, Id say many would point you to the renovated football and track complex on campus. Sure, its not something that created widespread upgrades across the athletics department, but it shows that athletics arent COMPLETELY forgotten at HU.


Localcoach,
Although new to the site and seemingly late on the comment, I would still like to throw in my two cents after coming upon your comment here.

Undeniably, Wohler is a legend in Minnesota for his accomplishments as a player and a coach. Your statistics seem to support your very biased stance through the pretences which you look. However, what you have overlooked would most defenitely disregard any of your opinions. That would be his accomplishments as a coach at the college level. Do we have to look at what the Hamline team was before he got there? If I am correct, the last time (before the wonderful coach Wohler, of course) won a MIAC playoff game was in 1996.

Only two years before Wohler, Hamline finished last in the MIAC; however, third-year coach Barry Wohler helped to rejuvenate a program that needed new life. In his first coaching season, he helped a last place team climb to seventh in the MIAC. The following year he guided the team to the precipice of the promise land: a sixth seed in the MIAC Tournament.

I'm sorry, how close have you gotten to this accomplishment, Sir? You must have done more, considering your highly critical standpoint.

And as far as your assumption: "So, again, he made the right move to head back to the high school level. Cord Of The North, I dont doubt that he left of his own volition, but I believe many associated with Hamline hoops had no problem watching him go. Thats why its not a surprise, however newsworthy of a move it might have been."
Have you, yourself asked Hamline if they were happy for the move? I highly doubt it, as I personally have heard very different. And have you considered the fact that his son, who is entering High-School ball, and proving his athleticism, may have been reason for his leaving? Perhaps, he wanted to leave another legacy, in his son. As Barry Wohler's coach and father in High-School did as well.

[Drake Palmer]

Does AO remind anyone else of Skip Bayless? How he loves to make a retarded "point" and defend it to the death in the most annoying way humanly possible?...

Thank you.    I preferred the slowly dying SJU Barmore-Herman non/controversy over the UMAC Northwestern Eagles - the hypothetical king of the MIAC basement dwellers. But this topic did almost burn up another week of the "summer slows" on the board.   

And then, like a shot out of the blue and the W-A-A-Y Back Time Machine...

First, he's basically a Minnesota legend and there aren't too many places you can go, except maybe north country, where people don't know who he is.

Wohler very well might be a legend, but it certainly isnt due to his collegiate basketball legacy, which is kind of what his departure should be judged on, no? 30-47 overall, and 12 games under .500 in the MIAC isnt my idea of "turning it around". So, again, he made the right move to head back to the high school level. Cord Of The North, I dont doubt that he left of his own volition, but I believe many associated with Hamline hoops had no problem watching him go. Thats why its not a surprise, however newsworthy of a move it might have been. To Local, and others, who mentioned Hamlines lack of attention to sports, ...

What the %%$## prompted this flight back in the memory machine?!?! Plus, I had to re-read the post twice as it read like multiple posters arguing different sides of the same issue not only in the same paragraph, but in the same sentence.  Sometimes, I really regret the days of my mispent college youth, seems my reading comprehension has been greatly diminished.   Uhh Wohlerfan, umm LocalCoach was perhaps the biggest Wohler booster on the board.  Or is this a new "Woody" preparing to spar with Willy Wonka?

And lastly,

..And while I'm here...work with Wonka.

http://www.journalismjobs.com/Job_Listing.cfm?JobID=964712

So Willy - what happened to that crackerjack young cub reporter you had a year or so ago?  Dinny or Denny or something or other was his name? Did you teach him all he knows so he ran off to the big city & bright lights to pursue wealth, fortune and fame?

[AO]

This board doesn't need my help getting out of the doldrums if someone can come from out of nowhere and argue with himself about the reasons someone changed jobs a year ago.

You've got to get me going a bit by counting my team out of the playoffs before the season starts, and blaming home court referees for my team's success in a game they lost.

Skip Bayless is right so often, it's scary.