MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Drake Palmer]

Greg - I'm sort of in PI's corner. Coach Whitmore and his predecessor, Barry Wohler, came in with a ton of hype and apparently the track record to back it up.  Especially with Whitmore on the D3 college level.  I've also seen a number of games under Whitmore's predecessor- Barry Wohler, and now Nelson Whitmore.  And most of Hamline's seniors were around during the Wohler years.  Whitmore's defensive system is not that significantly different from Wohler's.  Both Whitmore & Wohler try/tried to employ a similar full court, ¾ court trapping, pressing defense which had varying, mixed results.  Whitmore's half-court defense is mostly man but fairly aggressive.

Where a number of Hamline's defensive breakdowns seem to happen is in their straight up man, half-court defense.  A friend of mine was at the Bethel-Hamline game the other night & he told me he recalled at least 7-8 times when a Bethel player would beat his man baseline & there was never a help defender to cut him off. As a result, the player would have the easy baseline drive for the  layup, dish to the post, or skip to the weakside wing for a trey, & or quick ball reversal.  Dial up, start all over.   Interesting thing about it was that he said he never saw a Hamline coach speak to the player/s to make a correction, call a timeout or make any defensive adjustments. 

I also know Whitmore's style of play can work at this level.  The Tommies break out a full court press on occasion, UW-Whitewater plays up-tempo, & Puget Sound out of Washington has been very successful with a frenetic, trapping, platoon defensive system.  Hamline's cupboard is far from being completely bare & they've got some nice talent & players on their squad.  So I'm sitting here with my arms crossed in my "you gotta show me" Missouri mode & waiting to see this all materialize. 

[Willy Wonka]

Coach Whitmore rebuilt Brockport State into a very solid program and the SUNYAC's resident bully. B'port was giving Rochester a run for its money as the East Region's preeminent power during his tenure there, and that's no mean feat. Granted, the SUNYAC is a pretty pedestrian league in terms of its overall ability, but it's nevertheless very internally competitive and hard to dominate.

Given the fact that Whitmore is running what sounds like a significantly different system than his predecessor's, if I was a MIAC fan I'd give him time to put all of his own players in place before I rang up a verdict on his work at Hamline. Granted, I'm not there to make any firsthand observations of the situation, but I wouldn't rush to judgment on him based upon what his teams have done in his first year and a half.

I met Whitmore once after a game I covered. He stopped in to say hello to the coach I was interviewing since he was recruiting one of his players. I'm not sure how much contact he'd had with the HS coach, but I know the player was considering the school pretty seriously.

When Whitmore left, the coach gave a little "Who was that guy?" type response. When I told him in was Hamline's new head coach, he seemed very surprised.

While it might be making a mountain out of a molehill, I'm guessing Piper fans are hoping that's not the typical response he's received around the state...

PI - I'd offer to make a wager on Saturday's game...but I'm still not sure which Gustie team will show up. I'd love to see a little more consistency out of them, particularly on the defensive end. Here are their last four defensive outputs: 64, 37, 79, 102.

[dkd]

Augsburg 68-51 over St. Johns.   Looks like I should do Coach Smith a favor & Fed Ex an overnight rush delivery of the coaches' best seller How to Develop Your Bench Strength.    It seems like Monday's night game against the Oles took its toll on the Johnnies' legs.  Wow 29% FGA accuracy & 5-24 on treys for a frosty 20%. The Dawgs may be starting to turn the corner, 2 conference wins in a row.

Two other comments - the Tommie backdoor cut for the dunk or layup, is one of the sweetest looking plays in the entire league.  If I'm Anders Halvorsen I go out of my way to buy Al McCoy lunch once a week or something.  Someone should make a highlight reel of some of the baskets Tim Madson has made in his career – sick I tell you, sick.  The dude can score. 

DP-I always appreciate your insights & comments.  In terms of SJU, I have not been able to see them play yet this season, but I was under the impression that they had a pretty good roster or am I missing something?
 
I agree with on the Tommie backdoor cut and even take it a step further.  If I were Halvorsen, I'd even take out a loan if I had to and buy big Al McCoy lunch...and maybe even let him double down! I too was surprised by the smaller crowd.

I love watching Tim Madson play.  He's sick...without a doubt!  Count me in on the highlight reel....I'd buy it!

[miacsuperfan]

had my first look at sju last monday on the way back from alex.  assumed i had caught them on an off night.   after viewing last night's box score, i am not sure what to think.  young team, long season, they should bounce back.  they do appear to have some pretty talented kids, and todd herman has seen the inside of a weight room or two. 

I was just about to point out the same Points-in-paint stat, but Fast Fingers Drake beat me to it.

Also, the rebound margin was only 2 (BU 24, UST22)

Given the size advantage Bethel had inside (Moberg, Robertson), I'd conclude that UST's overall athleticism more than offset the height differential.

With about 8 mins left in the game, BU had a fastbreak, with Laugen going up for the easy layup. Viau came out of nowhere, blocked the shot (his leap was utterly phenomenal-- he almost could have sat on the rim)-- it was absolutely sick!

I've said it before, Viau is the MVP of the UST team. His scoring & rebounding have come around, and he does so many things that don't make the boxscore. his defensive pressure and presence, his overall intensity/hustle/aggressive play and his floor leadership are so important to UST's success.

UST did not seem to miss Archer, who was not in the arena. But Brady "LB" Ervin stepped up and played about as good of defense as you can on Madson. Of Madson's 18 points, only 4 - all FTs- came with Ervin on him. DP-- you had sang praises of  Ervin's defensive play, but you undersold him. I doubt Madson wants to see him again 

and after watching last night's tilt at robertson center, one would have to agree with mm's assessment of bj viau.  he can hurt you in so many ways, and his legs are explosions!!        and joe scott is not exactly a prisoner of the earth's gravitational pull either.  tyler nicolai has become something of a 'bethel killer.'  they seem to have a tradition of leaving him open for his often deadly three ball.  on the other hand, al mccoy does appear to be stuck to the floor, but sees his teammates as well as any big i've seen.  ust is clearly the team to beat in the miac this year, and it will take a great effort by anybody to pull it off.

tim madson IS a human highlight film.     he was wearing robinson and ervin like cheap suits for the entire game.    bu needed  a couple of bombs from vavra to find the mark last night.  the royals are good, but moberg needs to play with the passion of madson and robertson if the royals are going to compete with the likes of st. thomas. 

i agree dp that the crowd was decent but disappointing.  no playoff type atmosphere that you would hope for, but an entertaining night nonetheless.

[piperinsider]

Coach Whitmore rebuilt Brockport State into a very solid program and the SUNYAC's resident bully. B'port was giving Rochester a run for its money as the East Region's preeminent power during his tenure there, and that's no mean feat. Granted, the SUNYAC is a pretty pedestrian league in terms of its overall ability, but it's nevertheless very internally competitive and hard to dominate.

Given the fact that Whitmore is running what sounds like a significantly different system than his predecessor's, if I was a MIAC fan I'd give him time to put all of his own players in place before I rang up a verdict on his work at Hamline. Granted, I'm not there to make any firsthand observations of the situation, but I wouldn't rush to judgment on him based upon what his teams have done in his first year and a half.

PI - I'd offer to make a wager on Saturday's game...but I'm still not sure which Gustie team will show up. I'd love to see a little more consistency out of them, particularly on the defensive end. Here are their last four defensive outputs: 64, 37, 79, 102.

You taking Hamline? It's hard to wager when we'd both take GAC. Dude, the Pipers just lost at St. Mary's.

When was the last time Hamline beat Gustavus? Pre 1999? I can't think of a win in my Hamline days or ever since.

Edit: The Goose was loose and scored 16 points http://www.hamline.edu/hamline_info/athletics/mens_basketball/0607/0607_stats/gac-hu.htm
http://www.hamline.edu/hamline_info/athletics/mens_basketball/0506/0506_stats/gac-hu.htm

Turns out we won twice over the Gusties in the Wohler era.

[John Galt]

I think this years Piper team has yet to show itself--due to injury and illness--give Whitmore time---his younger crew tends to have a different mindset than the upperclassmen---to them a losing season is not an option----stay tuned....  

[piperinsider]

I think this years Piper team has yet to show itself--due to injury and illness--give Whitmore time---his younger crew tends to have a different mindset than the upperclassmen---to them a losing season is not an option----stay tuned....  

From Wednesday:
Wohler's guys/recruits
Kelzer - 22 points in 15 minutes
Hayes - 7 points
Hipp - 11 points, 9 rebounds, 7 blocks

Whitmore's first recruits
Brandon Rieg - 0 points in 10 minutes
Pierre Harris - 2 points in 11 minutes
Dan Anderson - 3 points in 16 minutes

Who are these young guys that don't want a losing season?

Eric Clute - 2 minutes? He was the best player for the Pipers last year. What is the reason for his limited minutes? He is injury prone.

[John Galt]

Was Harris a Whitmore recruit ?

I was thinking more of :

Barnhill
Van Ordstand
Wenrich

[Drake Palmer]

Was Harris a Whitmore recruit ?

I was thinking more of :

Barnhill
Van Ordstand
Wenrich

Don't forget Brandon Rieg - another one of those Cali recruits.  I'm not sure if Pierre Harris was recruited or not, but he was a mid year walkon or addition last season.

[piperinsider]

Was Harris a Whitmore recruit ?

I was thinking more of :

Barnhill
Van Ordstand
Wenrich

I forgot about Stoddard and Max Van O...O...O (absent the last two games - heck of an illness I guess). Harris was brought in mid-season last year, correct? So, yes, he like Barnhill are Whitmore's guys.

I'd like to see his next recruiting class before I pass any judgment on him? This was his first class and personally, it's a low C (a C with Barnhill). He's going to need to do better next season for the Pipers to be playoff-bound.

Numbers for the 2008-09 class:
SCORING              GP   FG-FGA   FG%  3FG-FGA  3PT%   FT-FTA   FT%   PTS PTS/G
Dan Andersen........ 11   29-64   .453   18-38   .474    0-1    .000    76  6.9
Max Van Ordstrand...  6   12-35   .343    9-22   .409    5-6    .833    38  6.3
Stoddard Barnhill...  4   11-29   .379    0-0    .000    2-3    .667    24  6.0
Levi Wenrich........ 11   18-47   .383    0-2    .000   30-38   .789    66  6.0
Bobby Morrow........  7   11-31   .355    5-15   .333    6-8    .750    33  4.7
Brandon Rieg........  9    7-21   .333    3-10   .300    3-3   1.000    20  2.2

The Pipers brought back Eric Clute (15), Tony Thrasher (14), Carl Hipp (13) and Tanner Anderson (six) that averaged nearly 50 points per game. Those top four newcomers scoring 25 points a game plus a few from Brandon Hayes and Nick Carroll would mean 80 points and a fairly good team. Better than an 3-8 team with a 1-6 record on the road.

[John Galt]

That's right Rieg as well----Rieg just needs a little more real game time---he's got a nice shot and is deadly beyond the arc once he has confidence---and Wenrich has proven to be pretty solid as freshman

[VOJ]

Greg - I'm sort of in PI's corner. Coach Whitmore and his predecessor, Barry Wohler, came in with a ton of hype and apparently the track record to back it up.  Especially with Whitmore on the D3 college level.  I’ve also seen a number of games under Whitmore’s predecessor- Barry Wohler, and now Nelson Whitmore.  And most of Hamline’s seniors were around during the Wohler years.  Whitmore’s defensive system is not that significantly different from Wohler’s.  Both Whitmore & Wohler try/tried to employ a similar full court, ¾ court trapping, pressing defense which had varying, mixed results.  Whitmore’s half-court defense is mostly man but fairly aggressive.

Where a number of Hamline’s defensive breakdowns seem to happen is in their straight up man, half-court defense.  A friend of mine was at the Bethel-Hamline game the other night & he told me he recalled at least 7-8 times when a Bethel player would beat his man baseline & there was never a help defender to cut him off. As a result, the player would have the easy baseline drive for the  layup, dish to the post, or skip to the weakside wing for a trey, & or quick ball reversal.  Dial up, start all over.   Interesting thing about it was that he said he never saw a Hamline coach speak to the player/s to make a correction, call a timeout or make any defensive adjustments. 

I also know Whitmore’s style of play can work at this level.  The Tommies break out a full court press on occasion, UW-Whitewater plays up-tempo, & Puget Sound out of Washington has been very successful with a frenetic, trapping, platoon defensive system.  Hamline’s cupboard is far from being completely bare & they’ve got some nice talent & players on their squad.  So I’m sitting here with my arms crossed in my “you gotta show me” Missouri mode & waiting to see this all materialize. 

Fellas was Rome built in a day?  I realize that Wholers had his team in the tourney in his second year and then the upset come from behind victory over the J's...but I think the MIAC is a little different now, and this will open another can of worms, but the MIAC seems even more competitive today than just a couple of years ago...

Who knows why Clute is not playing more...maybe he is not working hard enough in his coaches opinion...hasn't Thrasher been injured?  Its a long season, we are just past the 1/2 way point of the first run through, losing to SMU at SMU is not a crime, the Cards have a couple of good guards this year and its not easy to play in that gym.

Point is this...sometiimes it takes time for a coach to put it together and there is alot of season left, besides the Tommies is anyone really a shoo-in for the playoffs??  The MIAC is a dogfight, and it seems even more intense this year...you never know how injuries will impact things.  Someone has already predicted 20-0 for the Tommies, interesting observation given that they will have to be up for taking everyone's best shot, playing the grueling schedule of the conference and again the injury question. 

Maybe the poll question should be what is more likely...UST 20-0 or MAC 0-20...

Not to re-vist an already beaten horse, but why is it so tough for Bethel to take advantage of their size inside??  I was reading some of stats from the Tommies game and the points in the paint really stood out to me...

[Nites]

Maybe the poll question should be what is more likely...UST 20-0 or MAC 0-20...

That's a no-brainer, MAC 0-20.   

[piperinsider]

Was Harris a Whitmore recruit ?

I was thinking more of :

Barnhill
Van Ordstand
Wenrich

I forgot about Stoddard and Max Van O...O...O (absent the last two games - heck of an illness I guess). Harris was brought in mid-season last year, correct? So, yes, he like Barnhill are Whitmore's guys.

I'd like to see his next recruiting class before I pass any judgment on him? This was his first class and personally, it's a low C (a C with Barnhill). He's going to need to do better next season for the Pipers to be playoff-bound.

Numbers for the 2008-09 class:
SCORING              GP   FG-FGA   FG%  3FG-FGA  3PT%   FT-FTA   FT%   PTS PTS/G
Dan Andersen........ 11   29-64   .453   18-38   .474    0-1    .000    76  6.9
Max Van Ordstrand...  6   12-35   .343    9-22   .409    5-6    .833    38  6.3
Stoddard Barnhill...  4   11-29   .379    0-0    .000    2-3    .667    24  6.0
Levi Wenrich........ 11   18-47   .383    0-2    .000   30-38   .789    66  6.0
Bobby Morrow........  7   11-31   .355    5-15   .333    6-8    .750    33  4.7
Brandon Rieg........  9    7-21   .333    3-10   .300    3-3   1.000    20  2.2

The Pipers brought back Eric Clute (15), Tony Thrasher (14), Carl Hipp (13) and Tanner Anderson (six) that averaged nearly 50 points per game. Those top four newcomers scoring 25 points a game plus a few from Brandon Hayes and Nick Carroll would mean 80 points and a fairly good team. Better than an 3-8 team with a 1-6 record on the road.

Since I put the 08-09 Pipers in a box...better bring up another topic.

Is it harder to be a fan of a team such as Augsburg or Hamline, which annually talks about moving up into the top 6 and then finishes eighth? Or, is it tougher being a St. Mary's fan? You know you're going to finish 9th-11th and there is no hope.

[sumander]

joe scott is not exactly a prisoner of the earth's gravitational pull either. 

+k Superfan!

DP, That's gotta be in the running for quote of the year??