MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[AO]

Drake: I was the 6'6" lunker playing against McCoy.  I saw it as a favorable matchup for me.  It was obvious to me that Robertson and Moberg took advantage in the same ways last week, though I must mention Al did everything he could to prevent the pass to the big guys in the second half.   We agree that he's not the mvp.   he's a solid player. 

Maniac: i'd have to look it up, but i think alm was pretty close to averaging a double double last year too, so it's a bit puzzling that you would estimate his output at 3 and 3.  If the auggies win at carleton, that might be just enough to push him over Johnson in the MVP hunt.  For what it's worth, he was definitely a tougher matchup for me than a mccoy or conboy.

If Northwestern did get a pool b bid, which seems unlikely as they've dropped a couple of UMAC games recently, we do at least have one non MIAC or UMAC common opponent to compare the eagles and tommies with.  concordia st. paul.  both games went into overtimes in different ways, northwestern led for most of regulation and the tommies were trailing.  Let me just say it like this, Northwestern would much rather face the Tommies, than a WIAC power such as platteville.  Northwestern and St. Thomas matchup pretty well on paper.  my guys are undersized but they can handle the defensive pressure and run a bit.

[Willy Wonka]

I bow to the all-knowing, omni-potent, SJU-worshipping VOJ! 

[Gregory Sager]

But  I'd love to see the team that produced AO try to take on UST...what is the record for most lopsided win in D-III tourney? 

I'm not sure that you want to invoke that comparison, Mose, even hyperbolically; in the 2002 tournament, Williams beat Cazenovia by the score of 121-49.

[Gregory Sager]

AO, the emphasis on in-region games is not from the 'evil' NCAA - it is a decision by d3 institutions themselves.  I'm not fond of it either, but it is what it is.  I assume the rationale is to protect against travel costs for those schools (most of the membership) who couldn't afford to compete with the richer schools (e.g., UAA, NESCAC, etc.).

That's one reason. But the bigger reason is that D3 schools aim to stress academics above athletics, and with that in mind they've created a system that reinforces locally-based competition that will reduce the amount of time that student-athletes spend outside of the classroom and the library.

[VOJ]

Since sport MVP awards tend to go to a player on a top team, I feel that given UST's dominance of the league this year, their MVP should get top consideration. In my view, Joe Scott is UST's most valuable player................. That being said, if team performace was thrown out the window as a factor (which is not usually the case in sport MVP awards), I would give Zach Johnson the nod for being the "best player" in the league this year.

PaPa, +k the voice of reason this morning!

AMEN and +K to both of you

I agree that the MVP normally goes to a player on either (A) the championship team (Espenson, Rosefelt, George, etc etc) or (B) a team that made a serious run for the title and wouldn’t have been a contender without his performance (Linz).

Following that logic, and taking into consideration the way UST has rolled to the title, the MVP most likely should be a Tommie. But which one??  Scott is, as "Pops" points out, the one guy who can and has put the team on his back and carried them when needed (see win over BU for case in point). McCoy, despite (or maybe because) being in AO's doghouse, has also been a go-to guy, and has on occasion carried the team, and plays a huge role in their success. If you like defense, you have Robinson and Viau and to a lesser extent Scott and Nicolai. Viau also does so many little things, the intangibles, and the overall leadership, but is a limited scorer.

If you go with a non-Tommie, you can start by eliminating anyone on a team that didn’t make the playoffs. SJU and GAC don’t have a player who consistently stands out as "The Man"-- they have a nice balance of players, but no real "MVP". 

From Bethel, you can consider Moberg, who has pretty nice numbers, but also has more than a few "dog" games (3 pts and 2 boards vs. Hamline?). You also have Madson, who is a great scoring threat, above average as a defender and a pretty solid player/leader.

From Augsburg, you have Alm. I honestly expected minimal production out of him at the beginning of the season, figuring 2-3 ppg and 3-4 rpg would be about right. Instead, the kid is as big a force in the paint as anyone, and his play is a major reason the Auggies are still in serious contention for 2nd place.

Carleton, of course, provides us with Johnson as a candidate. He is running away with the league scoring race, and is (surprise) among the leaders in assists and rebounds. He will go over the 2000 point mark tonight (most likely). If scoring stats for MIAC games ONLY is used, I think he is probably the all-time scoring leader in conference history.(Frankie Alphabet has 2300+ total points, but they only played 16 MIAC games back then s about 1/3 of his total probably came in non-conference games. Take him out of the Carleton lineup and you have a pretty ordinary team—possibly a playoff team, maybe not.

I’d say the top five, in order, should be: Scott, Alm/Johnson, Viau and Madson. Alm/Johnson could be flipped depending how their teams’ fare this week.

I may have been a little heavy on my push for The Great One for MVP...but he Maniac hit it on the head with the description of his abilities...With regards to the MVP I think Alm has been solid for most of the year but the Dawgs have dropped a few here late and he has had foul problems limiiting his ability to be a factor at the end...AO that means he has fouled out.

Drake...maybe I was carrying the torch a little tightly this week, but I felt that those comments made by Willy were in poor taste, especially for a guy who was a decent player in this league and has alot of writing talent...

As far as the uniforms go...I like them all except any featuring purple...yes Drake the baby blues have taken some getting used to...

Enough on that subject...+K to the usual suspects...I will be at the Shoe high up in the perch if anyone wants to come say hi, throw something or engage in intellectual debate on the MIAC playoff picture...

[ChairmanYao]

At least to an extent, I have to agree with VOJ on the McCoy debate. Although I was never a power in this league, when it came to posting up on a UST post I preferred Ike to McCoy in any situation. That story completely changes when moving to the other side of the floor. Wasn't fair for a person in the league to have to guard Ike one on one. UST is far and away the best team in the league and you have to give some of their players credit in the MVP voting even if not one of them does have the stats. Should McCoy get it? Probably not but I don't have a problem with the discussion of it.

[Pat Coleman]

If Northwestern did get a pool b bid, which seems unlikely as they've dropped a couple of UMAC games recently, we do at least have one non MIAC or UMAC common opponent to compare the eagles and tommies with.  concordia st. paul. 

That's cool and all but since Northwestern would never be up for the same at-large bid as St. Thomas, it's not endemic to the selection process. Plus, since Northwestern lost to Concordia and St. Thomas beat them, it's not actually a feather in Northwestern's cap in the eyes of the committee.

[AO]

If Northwestern did get a pool b bid, which seems unlikely as they've dropped a couple of UMAC games recently, we do at least have one non MIAC or UMAC common opponent to compare the eagles and tommies with.  concordia st. paul. 

That's cool and all but since Northwestern would never be up for the same at-large bid as St. Thomas, it's not endemic to the selection process. Plus, since Northwestern lost to Concordia and St. Thomas beat them, it's not actually a feather in Northwestern's cap in the eyes of the committee.

we're talking about a potential playoff matchup (2nd round if the tommies get a bye), not a battle for a bid.

[Willy Wonka]

While I can appreciate people throwing out names for MVP consideration, I think you might be overthinking this MVP race. Personally, I think it's locked up.

Zach Johnson is the best player in the league. He also fits the mold many of the previous winners:

• On a quality playoff team
• A senior
• Done work for years, bringing the career achievement factor into play

The only real threat I see is Tim Madson, who could outplay him in the final regular season game to steal momentum. That said, I'd point out that Goose could outscore Madson by 100 points this year and will go down as one of the most prolific scorers in MIAC history.

UST is the best team in the league, no question, but arguing that it deserves the MVP is a little odd. Their strength is depth and teamwork, as Gene McGivern likes to point out in every game note. Not giving them the MVP would be a better recognition of that fact than snubbing Goose (or Madson) to bestow another accolade upon the Tommies, who will still get their share of awards.

As for McCoy...his defense has been outstanding, but I suspect he might be a defensive liability in the national tourney. The MIAC doesn't really having many big posts to give him problems. However, the fact he's shooting 72% this year is ridiculous.

[buf]

This weeks region rankings

West Region
1. St. Thomas 22-0 22-0
2. Puget Sound 21-2 18-0
3. UW-Whitewater 20-3 19-3
4. UW-Stevens Point 20-3 19-3
5. UW-Platteville 20-3 15-3
6. Buena Vista 22-2 19-2
7. Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 16-6 14-4
8. Whitworth 18-5 16-5

[papahoops]

DP
My sons call me Pops, so I guess you can go with that one. I came up with the papahoops D3 label, since I used to be referred to as Papacon by some of his teammates when my son TCON was hooping it up for MAC.

I am heading over to the Shoe now for the UST/SJU action. If anyone knows me and is going to the game, be sure to say hello!
Drake if you say hello I will not reveal your hidden identity

[piperinsider]

While I can appreciate people throwing out names for MVP consideration, I think you might be overthinking this MVP race. Personally, I think it's locked up.

Zach Johnson is the best player in the league. He also fits the mold many of the previous winners:

• On a quality playoff team
• A senior
• Done work for years, bringing the career achievement factor into play

The only real threat I see is Tim Madson, who could outplay him in the final regular season game to steal momentum. That said, I'd point out that Goose could outscore Madson by 100 points this year and will go down as one of the most prolific scorers in MIAC history.

UST is the best team in the league, no question, but arguing that it deserves the MVP is a little odd. Their strength is depth and teamwork, as Gene McGivern likes to point out in every game note. Not giving them the MVP would be a better recognition of that fact than snubbing Goose (or Madson) to bestow another accolade upon the Tommies, who will still get their share of awards.

As for McCoy...his defense has been outstanding, but I suspect he might be a defensive liability in the national tourney. The MIAC doesn't really having many big posts to give him problems. However, the fact he's shooting 72% this year is ridiculous.

Finally, somebody posts something logical on the MVP chatter (weird, journalists from Missota Conference cities think alike - TH4L, where are ya big fella?). McCoy, Scott, whoever? Folks, we have this discussion every year. MVP is what player means the most to that team and leads them to success (top 4). Take away Scott and UST is still champs. Take away anybody from UST and they are still champs.

Take away Zorro and Hamline is in the playoffs this year. Top 10 in scoring and rebounding - top 3 seed likely. CUT AND DRY for MVP and POY.

Turned my ballot into Mose today for CSN post-season awards. No Gusties. And, no McCoy. I only say that because someone said he would be in the post-season awards.

[abominable_snowman]

mccoy for mvp?  how about those 8 points and 3 rebounds a game he's averaged this season, just amazing.....

How many Tommies games have you seen, how many MIAC coaches have you talked to?  I made a few points about why he could be considered on a team where the sum is really more than all its parts...Joe Scott is an excellent shooter, possibly the best pure shooter in the conference, and Lonnie Robinson is arguably the best defender in the MIAC.  McCoy is a tough matchup for many teams because he uses his body so well, he is a tone setter for how tough those guys are and lets not forget he has the best hair in the conference hands down.

He's clever around the bucket, definitely.  but he's a liability on the defensive end and he doesn't rebound well.  this works fine against a lot of teams as the tommies have the athletes to fly around the floor, but he's just not an mvp type of player.  solid role player, can't carry his team.  you might also reconsider your nomination of mccoy if you had seen me play against him.  you have no idea the relief that came when mccoy subbed into the game for roosefelt.

let me see...northwestern stats for 06-07 have a player with initials AO, and wait for it....0.8 pts per game, 1.5 rebounds per game.  in 05-06 the numbers were 1.1, and 1.9.  so to be generous the metric we'll use is 1 pt per game and 2 rebounds to evaluate big Al.  So Al exceeds the points by 800% and rebounds by 150%.  It's just math.

Drake: I was the 6'6" lunker playing against McCoy.  I saw it as a favorable matchup for me.  It was obvious to me that Robertson and Moberg took advantage in the same ways last week, though I must mention Al did everything he could to prevent the pass to the big guys in the second half.   We agree that he's not the mvp.   he's a solid player.


If Northwestern did get a pool b bid, which seems unlikely as they've dropped a couple of UMAC games recently, we do at least have one non MIAC or UMAC common opponent to compare the eagles and tommies with.  concordia st. paul.  both games went into overtimes in different ways, northwestern led for most of regulation and the tommies were trailing.  Let me just say it like this, Northwestern would much rather face the Tommies, than a WIAC power such as platteville.  Northwestern and St. Thomas matchup pretty well on paper.  my guys are undersized but they can handle the defensive pressure and run a bit.

this is a gem.

first...i'm a little lost.  you played for northwestern right...so the last time they played the tommies when it mattered was in 2003.  No McCoy. When did you play against him, summer league?  or do you have some sort of video game character you named McCoy that you set up to abuse when you get dejected on this board?

second...above in bold, your words seem to indicate desirable traits of a defensive player, not liabilities.

third...one team won (tommies), and another lost (northwestern) against concordia st. paul.

[abominable_snowman]

so i get the sense of a question around ust against a team with a tough post matchup.  I think this is a great debate of whether or not the St. Thomas University Defensive Committee (yes, the STUD committee) is a lethal enough weapon to neutralize this type of threat.

[AO]

mccoy for mvp?  how about those 8 points and 3 rebounds a game he's averaged this season, just amazing.....

How many Tommies games have you seen, how many MIAC coaches have you talked to?  I made a few points about why he could be considered on a team where the sum is really more than all its parts...Joe Scott is an excellent shooter, possibly the best pure shooter in the conference, and Lonnie Robinson is arguably the best defender in the MIAC.  McCoy is a tough matchup for many teams because he uses his body so well, he is a tone setter for how tough those guys are and lets not forget he has the best hair in the conference hands down.

He's clever around the bucket, definitely.  but he's a liability on the defensive end and he doesn't rebound well.  this works fine against a lot of teams as the tommies have the athletes to fly around the floor, but he's just not an mvp type of player.  solid role player, can't carry his team.  you might also reconsider your nomination of mccoy if you had seen me play against him.  you have no idea the relief that came when mccoy subbed into the game for roosefelt.

let me see...northwestern stats for 06-07 have a player with initials AO, and wait for it....0.8 pts per game, 1.5 rebounds per game.  in 05-06 the numbers were 1.1, and 1.9.  so to be generous the metric we'll use is 1 pt per game and 2 rebounds to evaluate big Al.  So Al exceeds the points by 800% and rebounds by 150%.  It's just math.

Drake: I was the 6'6" lunker playing against McCoy.  I saw it as a favorable matchup for me.  It was obvious to me that Robertson and Moberg took advantage in the same ways last week, though I must mention Al did everything he could to prevent the pass to the big guys in the second half.   We agree that he's not the mvp.   he's a solid player.


If Northwestern did get a pool b bid, which seems unlikely as they've dropped a couple of UMAC games recently, we do at least have one non MIAC or UMAC common opponent to compare the eagles and tommies with.  concordia st. paul.  both games went into overtimes in different ways, northwestern led for most of regulation and the tommies were trailing.  Let me just say it like this, Northwestern would much rather face the Tommies, than a WIAC power such as platteville.  Northwestern and St. Thomas matchup pretty well on paper.  my guys are undersized but they can handle the defensive pressure and run a bit.

this is a gem.

first...i'm a little lost.  you played for northwestern right...so the last time they played the tommies when it mattered was in 2003.  No McCoy. When did you play against him, summer league?  or do you have some sort of video game character you named McCoy that you set up to abuse when you get dejected on this board?

second...above in bold, your words seem to indicate desirable traits of a defensive player, not liabilities.

third...one team won (tommies), and another lost (northwestern) against concordia st. paul.

I sure hope McCoy wasn't around back in 03, some serious eligibility issues may arise.  So yes, it was summer league ball at MCTC.  I played some jv my sophomore year but can't quite remember if al was playing then.

I placed the blame on the bethel guards for not being able to make the pass into the post, but it's probably got a lot more to do with the tommie guards putting on the defensive pressure than anything else.  it makes al's job a lot easier when the bethel guards don't have any sort of comfort level on the wing.  You can defend any team if you've got a good mix of smart, athletic guards like St. Thomas does.