MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Smitty Oom]

This was my projected All-Region teams...

   Player of the Year   Booker Coplin    Augsburg
   Coach of the Year   John Tauer   St. Thomas
   Freshman of the Year   Anders Nelson   St. Thomas
         
   FIRST TEAM     
   PLAYER   TEAM   YEAR
G   Austin Butler   Whitman   Sr
G   Ryan Garver   Nebraska Wesleyan   Sr
G   Ryan DiCanio   Loras   Sr
F   Daniel Rosenbaum   Pomona Pitzer   Sr
F   Booker Coplin   Augsburg   Jr
         
   SECOND TEAM     
   PLAYER   TEAM   YEAR
G   Kyle Roach   Whitworth   Sr
G   Jaran Sabus   Wartburg   Sr
G   Josh Ruggles    Loras   Sr
F   Tim Wendell   Crown   Jr
F   Cooper Cook   Nebraska Wesleyan   Sr
         
   THIRD TEAM     
   PLAYER   TEAM   YEAR
G   David Stokman   St. John's   Sr
G   Joey Hewitt   Whitman   Sr
G   Ben College   Whitworth   Jr
F   Zach Baines   Occidental   Sr
F   Austin DeWitz   Occidental   Sr

I think they got the first team right. Those 5 were pretty clearly the top choices. Roach and Cooper Cook were locks for the second team and from there I had a tougher time determining a handful of players for those last 3 spots on the second team. No qualms about having Hewitt, Baines and College bumped up a team.

I think the biggest snub was senior Jaran Sabus of Wartburg. He scored 21 ppg/6 reb/4.4 ast while shooting over 50% from the field while leading a very good Wartburg team that finished 3rd in a tough ARC with a 17-9 record and was flirting with that 8th spot in regional rankings all of Feb. Not only are his counting stats better than Kent Hanson's, but his team was much better.

[Drake Palmer]

Ryan, I know you probably don't think this way, but your posts almost suggests you don't believe Coplin has "a lot of talent." Ryan Garver is a very deserving player, Drake mentioned that in his original post. NWU had an amazing season, finishing at 27-2 and winning a competitive ARC where as Augsburg only had a solid season in comparison, finishing at 19-9. That had a lot to do with the selection, as did seniority as Pat mentioned. But, Booker Coplin was named to the MIAC All-Defensive team this year, showing that the Coaches believe he is much more on both ends of the court than his eye popping stats show.  Both Coplin and Garver are both very deserving of high praise and being named West Region POY, and I hope NABC votes for Coplin as their POY so they both get rewarded for their great seasons.

I was really shocked with Kent Hanson being selected to the 3rd team. I mean congrats to him, he is a great player, but the Carlies were pretty bad this year. I thought either Sam Gabbard of UC-Santa Cruz or Jaran Sabus of Wartburg were just as deserving on better teams.

You're not even kidding!  Kent Hanson is a fine player, but he didn't even make first team All MIAC.  I didn't follow as many of the the non MIAC teams this year as you did, but even from the MIAC, I'd take Bethel's Granger Kinglund or SJU's Lucas Walford over Hanson   Or the big guy from Simpson, Reiter?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Yeah, the West was super stacked this year.  Personally I would've had Gabbard in there, but sometimes UCSC gets overlooked by people because of their largely non-d3 schedule.  I can't speak for how voters were thinking.

As for Coplin, maybe I watched the wrong games; he doesn't seem as well-rounded to me as Garver.  He's got a year, though.  Honestly, I feel like his junior year was a lot like Aston Francis's, so I guess the sky's the limit!

[Drake Palmer]

Yeah, the West was super stacked this year.  Personally I would've had Gabbard in there, but sometimes UCSC gets overlooked by people because of their largely non-d3 schedule.  I can't speak for how voters were thinking.

As for Coplin, maybe I watched the wrong games; he doesn't seem as well-rounded to me as Garver.  He's got a year, though.  Honestly, I feel like his junior year was a lot like Aston Francis's, so I guess the sky's the limit!

Well Rounded? Trust me, Coplin is well rounded.  Garver had the distinct advantage of working with a full complement of other uber talented players, and thus his assist average is higher than Coplin's, 7.6 apg vs. 3.5 apg. Steals per game were a push, 2.4 steals/game for Coplin, 3.0 steals for Garver, but in virtually every other statistical category, Coplin came out way ahead. 

Points
Coplin 28.0ppg - Garver 15.9ppg

Rebounds
Coplin 9.4rpg - Garver 4.3 rpg

3FGA
Coplin 43.4% - Garver 35.3%

Both players won the POY for their respective conference, and each were selected to their conference's All Defense team. The MIAC doesn't award a defensive player of the year as the ARC does, which Garver won, but if the MIAC did award a Defensive player of the year award, I'm sure Coplin would have nabbed that one as well.

Much like Francis with Wheaton, Coplin had a different role to fill for Augsburg than Garver did with Nebraska Wesleyan. Wheaton wouldn't be in the Final Four without Francis. Augsburg wouldn't have reached the MIAC tourney final and come within a hair of qualifying for the Big Dance without Coplin.   I think Neb Wes would have still won the ARC without Garver.   Having said this, Ryan Garver is certainly a solid choice, but my guy would have been Booker Coplin.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Stats are fine, but they're not really useful.  There's too much variance between style and speed of play, opponents, teammates, etc.  Maybe if we had some better advanced stats for d3 or could really know how to flatten some of the outside factors it would be more useful.  This is just where we are.

[Gregory Sager]

Ryan, I know you probably don't think this way, but your posts almost suggests you don't believe Coplin has "a lot of talent." Ryan Garver is a very deserving player, Drake mentioned that in his original post. NWU had an amazing season, finishing at 27-2 and winning a competitive ARC where as Augsburg only had a solid season in comparison, finishing at 19-9. That had a lot to do with the selection, as did seniority as Pat mentioned. But, Booker Coplin was named to the MIAC All-Defensive team this year, showing that the Coaches believe he is much more on both ends of the court than his eye popping stats show.  Both Coplin and Garver are both very deserving of high praise and being named West Region POY, and I hope NABC votes for Coplin as their POY so they both get rewarded for their great seasons.

Turns out that that's exactly what happened, Smitty:

http://nabc.com/nabc_releases/2019/diii_all_district

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I also wonder how much Garver's sort of "unsung" status the last two season played into things - recognizing someone who's less flashy?  Cook won the tourney POY and Schimonitz was certainly more noticeable on the stat sheet and at key moments.  Garver's sort of been the quiet backbone and I think people like to reward that.

I'm not really arguing one over the other, honestly, just trying to provide some context for why people would go another way.  Unless they're actually on the same floor playing, it's pretty tough to evaluate two very good players against each other.

[rlgyank]

Yeah, the West was super stacked this year.  Personally I would've had Gabbard in there, but sometimes UCSC gets overlooked by people because of their largely non-d3 schedule.  I can't speak for how voters were thinking.

As for Coplin, maybe I watched the wrong games; he doesn't seem as well-rounded to me as Garver.  He's got a year, though.  Honestly, I feel like his junior year was a lot like Aston Francis's, so I guess the sky's the limit!

Well Rounded? Trust me, Coplin is well rounded.  Garver had the distinct advantage of working with a full complement of other uber talented players, and thus his assist average is higher than Coplin's, 7.6 apg vs. 3.5 apg. Steals per game were a push, 2.4 steals/game for Coplin, 3.0 steals for Garver, but in virtually every other statistical category, Coplin came out way ahead. 

Points
Coplin 28.0ppg - Garver 15.9ppg

Rebounds
Coplin 9.4rpg - Garver 4.3 rpg

3FGA
Coplin 43.4% - Garver 35.3%

Both players won the POY for their respective conference, and each were selected to their conference's All Defense team. The MIAC doesn't award a defensive player of the year as the ARC does, which Garver won, but if the MIAC did award a Defensive player of the year award, I'm sure Coplin would have nabbed that one as well.

Much like Francis with Wheaton, Coplin had a different role to fill for Augsburg than Garver did with Nebraska Wesleyan. Wheaton wouldn't be in the Final Four without Francis. Augsburg wouldn't have reached the MIAC tourney final and come within a hair of qualifying for the Big Dance without Coplin.   I think Neb Wes would have still won the ARC without Garver.   Having said this, Ryan Garver is certainly a solid choice, but my guy would have been Booker Coplin.

While I am not here to debate who is a better player, they are both very deserving, but if you are going to throw stats out there, at least use the correct info.

The ARC does not have an all defensive team.
Coplin averaged 2.2 steals per game, not 2.4. And to call steals a push is not correct. 3.0 steals over 2.2 steals is a 36% difference.
Coplin averaged 3.3 assists per game, not 3.5.
Garver averaged 5.9 rebounds per game, not 4.3.

Just a few other stats to compare:
FG % - Coplin .521, Garver .629
FT % - Coplin .897, Garver .745
Total Blocks - Coplin 27, Garver 6
Assist/TO Ratio - Coplin 1.16, Garver 3.96

So each player had their stronger categories over the other player. Overall both players are very good. And I see Coplin was named the West district Player of the year by the NABC, so they both received a POY award.

The stats are public info for anyone to see them, when you use the wrong stats, and they all happen to go in the favor of the argument you are making, that doesn't look very good, in my opinion.

Congrats to both players.

[Pat Coleman]

The ARC does not have an all defensive team.

Nope, it does not. It names one player a defensive MVP, and I'll let you guess who the ARC coaches thought was the best defensive player in their conference:

http://rollrivers.com/news/2019/2/27/american-rivers-conference-mens-basketball-all-conference-team-announced-nwus-garver-wellman-headline.aspx?path=general

[Drake Palmer]

Yeah, the West was super stacked this year.  Personally I would've had Gabbard in there, but sometimes UCSC gets overlooked by people because of their largely non-d3 schedule.  I can't speak for how voters were thinking.

As for Coplin, maybe I watched the wrong games; he doesn't seem as well-rounded to me as Garver.  He's got a year, though.  Honestly, I feel like his junior year was a lot like Aston Francis's, so I guess the sky's the limit!

Well Rounded? Trust me, Coplin is well rounded.  Garver had the distinct advantage of working with a full complement of other uber talented players, and thus his assist average is higher than Coplin's, 7.6 apg vs. 3.5 apg. Steals per game were a push, 2.4 steals/game for Coplin, 3.0 steals for Garver, but in virtually every other statistical category, Coplin came out way ahead. 

Points
Coplin 28.0ppg - Garver 15.9ppg

Rebounds
Coplin 9.4rpg - Garver 4.3 rpg

3FGA
Coplin 43.4% - Garver 35.3%

Both players won the POY for their respective conference, and each were selected to their conference's All Defense team. The MIAC doesn't award a defensive player of the year as the ARC does, which Garver won, but if the MIAC did award a Defensive player of the year award, I'm sure Coplin would have nabbed that one as well.

Much like Francis with Wheaton, Coplin had a different role to fill for Augsburg than Garver did with Nebraska Wesleyan. Wheaton wouldn't be in the Final Four without Francis. Augsburg wouldn't have reached the MIAC tourney final and come within a hair of qualifying for the Big Dance without Coplin.   I think Neb Wes would have still won the ARC without Garver.   Having said this, Ryan Garver is certainly a solid choice, but my guy would have been Booker Coplin.

While I am not here to debate who is a better player, they are both very deserving, but if you are going to throw stats out there, at least use the correct info.

The ARC does not have an all defensive team.
Coplin averaged 2.2 steals per game, not 2.4. And to call steals a push is not correct. 3.0 steals over 2.2 steals is a 36% difference.
Coplin averaged 3.3 assists per game, not 3.5.
Garver averaged 5.9 rebounds per game, not 4.3.

Just a few other stats to compare:
FG % - Coplin .521, Garver .629
FT % - Coplin .897, Garver .745
Total Blocks - Coplin 27, Garver 6
Assist/TO Ratio - Coplin 1.16, Garver 3.96

So each player had their stronger categories over the other player. Overall both players are very good. And I see Coplin was named the West district Player of the year by the NABC, so they both received a POY award.

The stats are public info for anyone to see them, when you use the wrong stats, and they all happen to go in the favor of the argument you are making, that doesn't look very good, in my opinion.

Congrats to both players.

Sorry. Like most of us do at some point or another while posting, I made several mistakes.  I stand corrected, ARC does not have an All ARC Defensive team.  On the other hand, I was using stats from MIAC conference play and it shows that Coplin averaged 2.4 steals per game. And, Coplin 3.5 assists per game in conference play.  It seems you might have done what I inadvertently did.  Compared overall stats with conference stats.  Mea culpa. And as I said before, I've seen Ryan Garver, and think he's terrific. I happen to like Coplin better. 

   
https://www.miacathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2018-19/players?sort=trebpg&view=&pos=bc&r=1

[Smitty Oom]

Ryan, I know you probably don't think this way, but your posts almost suggests you don't believe Coplin has "a lot of talent." Ryan Garver is a very deserving player, Drake mentioned that in his original post. NWU had an amazing season, finishing at 27-2 and winning a competitive ARC where as Augsburg only had a solid season in comparison, finishing at 19-9. That had a lot to do with the selection, as did seniority as Pat mentioned. But, Booker Coplin was named to the MIAC All-Defensive team this year, showing that the Coaches believe he is much more on both ends of the court than his eye popping stats show.  Both Coplin and Garver are both very deserving of high praise and being named West Region POY, and I hope NABC votes for Coplin as their POY so they both get rewarded for their great seasons.

Turns out that that's exactly what happened, Smitty:

http://nabc.com/nabc_releases/2019/diii_all_district

Sometimes things just workout! Gotta love spreading the wealth. Both players can now say they were West region POY, as both are very deserving.

Maybe that’s what the NABC voters were doing in the Central region!? 

[Drake Palmer]

Ryan, I know you probably don't think this way, but your posts almost suggests you don't believe Coplin has "a lot of talent." Ryan Garver is a very deserving player, Drake mentioned that in his original post. NWU had an amazing season, finishing at 27-2 and winning a competitive ARC where as Augsburg only had a solid season in comparison, finishing at 19-9. That had a lot to do with the selection, as did seniority as Pat mentioned. But, Booker Coplin was named to the MIAC All-Defensive team this year, showing that the Coaches believe he is much more on both ends of the court than his eye popping stats show.  Both Coplin and Garver are both very deserving of high praise and being named West Region POY, and I hope NABC votes for Coplin as their POY so they both get rewarded for their great seasons.

Turns out that that's exactly what happened, Smitty:

http://nabc.com/nabc_releases/2019/diii_all_district

Sometimes things just workout! Gotta love spreading the wealth. Both players can now say they were West region POY, as both are very deserving.

Maybe that's what the NABC voters were doing in the Central region!? 

That's craziness in the Central Region.  I love this one sequence of posts regarding the use of (ahem) appropriately applied statistics:

NABC all-district teams...

http://nabc.com/nabc_releases/2019/diii_all_district


They do not have Aston Francis as Central player of the year? Did they bold the wrong name?

The way NABC makes their All-American team (player of the year from each district is on the 1st team), this would mean their 1st team All-America won't have Aston Francis?

Totally understand that Boots is a very good player who has had an excellent career, but I am admittedly confused about all of the national love he receives. First team All-Region for D3hoops, District POY for NABC, and he averages 15.7 PPG, 3.8 RPG, and 4.1 APG while shooting 43.1% FG and 38.6% 3PT. Nice numbers no doubt, but worthy of that kind of attention? Perhaps a nod to Oshkosh's team success?

These awards are not decided by numbers.  Numbers mean very little in evaluating how good a player is.  Especially for the coach's awards - these are the guys who see these players day in and day out, break them down on film, etc.  They usually know what they're talking about.  Mistakes can be made, of course (I don't really get Boots over Francis unless you're rewarding his full four year career), but you're not going to find a lot of numbers involved in these arguments; numbers really only get you in the ballpark.

I think it is safe to say that numbers mean less than then what a percentage of the posters expect, but numbers mean very little reaches hyperbole territory.

Enormous hyperbole territory.

[UWPSUPERFAN77]

I vote for the coach from NW as coach of the year! Two great seasons in a row! Nothing wrong with 2 in a row.

[Drake Palmer]

Wow, not to stir the pot, but the NABC post season awards are crazy!  Today they released their AA awards, and Booker Coplin was named first team, and has his photo prominently displayed on the award page. Wheaton's Aston Francis was named to the second team along with Neb Wes's Ryan Garver.  We can argue the merits of Coplin & Garver all we want, but IMO Francis is the national POY.

http://www.nabc.com/nabc_releases/2019/diii_all_american 

Too bad I'm going to be out of town & mostly offline the next few days.

[Smitty Oom]

Drake, NABC All-Americanawards are very lazy... they take the POY from each region and place them on the first team. They then take the second and third best players from each region and make the second and third team all-America. So yeah Booker made it over Francis and Garver, but we knew that yesterday, and it's not the correct way of selecting AllAmerican teams, in my eyes at least.