MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Greek Tragedy]

HERE is the game story on Oshkosh's win at Quandt in their second conference meeting.

Oshkosh's guards were the key with lightning quick D.J. Marsh eating up Point's perimeter defenders.  Yes, it helps having a 7-footer in the middle.  He did a great job defending.  The key difference from Point's loss at home to Point's win over in Oshkosh was their ability to take care of the ball.  They only had TWO turnovers at Kolf, while coughing it up 9 at home.  Another thing was that Oshkosh's guards shot well.  Marsh was 7-9 and Capelle, though listed as a forward, plays more like a guard, was only 5-12, but got to the line 9 times.  Oshkosh, not surprisingly, outrebounded the smaller Point team by a large margin.  Our offense flowed a lot better at Oshkosh and, admittedly by some Titan fans, they just weren't prepared for Point the first time around.

One of the main keys to stopping Point is having someone cover Rortvedt.  If you blanket him, you may have a chance, but Point has 5 guys who can launch the three at any time.  You better come prepared to play defense or your team will get a clinic on backdoor cutting...or 3-pt shooting...or both! lol.

Love to meet any SJU fans.

[Drake Palmer]

From reviewing the Loras roster & listening to the game, it sounds like Loras is fairly athletic & was able to really turn up the 2nd half pressure D on the Js -thus resulting in the Js TOs?   On the flip side, it seems the Duhawks' weakness was their lack of decent size, & good, but not exceptional outside shooting.  Down the stretch, one of their money moves was to have Loras's Brian Centella try to beat his J defender to the basket. Js were mixing up defenses & using zone to counter the Duhawks' athleticism.

[Greek Tragedy]

& using zone to counter the Duhawks' athleticism.

Feel free to use the zone against Point.

So, what's up with the Johnnie's?  Scouting report on the WIAC page? Thanks. 

[Drake Palmer]

& using zone to counter the Duhawks' athleticism.

Feel free to use the zone against Point.

So, what's up with the Johnnie's?  Scouting report on the WIAC page? Thanks. 

OS- I'd be torn to pieces & left out in the snow if I was to cough up a scouting report.  It'll be interesting to see/hear how the Johnnies choose to attack & defend against the Pointers Saturday night.  With the way I've heard Point shoots the ball this year, I rather doubt the Js will be showing much zone on Saturday night.

You're a pretty savvy hoops fan, I'm sure you've probably already got it figured out.   

[miacsuperfan]

anybody know if that is a career high for westman?   pretty nice stat line for the former crusader.

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

& using zone to counter the Duhawks' athleticism.

Feel free to use the zone against Point.

So, what's up with the Johnnie's?  Scouting report on the WIAC page? Thanks. 

OS- I'd be torn to pieces & left out in the snow if I was to cough up a scouting report.  It'll be interesting to see/hear how the Johnnies choose to attack & defend against the Pointers Saturday night.  With the way I've heard Point shoots the ball this year, I rather doubt the Js will be showing much zone on Saturday night.

You're a pretty savvy hoops fan, I'm sure you've probably already got it figured out.   

I'll give a scouting report.....if you play SJU at Sexton, you have no chance, period. If you play them at The Shoe, they cant hit anything. If you play them anywhere else...you are in for a tough, hard game. You better bring all your weapons and your "A" game....if not, its one & done!
(modified to insert a typo to please WW)

[miacwatchmen]

Maniac are you paying the Johnnies compliments? I thought you were a Tommie Fan?!!?

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

MW-- I am a MIAC fan, first and foremost. heck, Id even cheer for YOUR alma mater if they ever made a postseason run 

I have plenty of respect for Smith & his team, and since its MIAC vs the world, Im spending a few minutes on Fins' bandwagaon (plus  Fins has an awesome bar on that bus!!)

[ustbumkneez]

Nobody in the MWC really likes Carroll, so the CCIW can have them back. That way you can say you got 2 yeams in this year. For now I'd say Augie should be a 15-20 point favorite and the MIAC has never impressed me so I wouldn't worry about the seedings.

...and the MIAC has never impressed me so I wouldn't worry about the seedings.

Even when Gustavus Adolphus went to the Final Four? 

I was not exposed to the D3Hoops.com universe when GA went to the Final Four. Since then the conference as ridden on their laurels I think. The only MIAC team I've ever seen was Hamline in 1977. They made the Final Four that year and the field was 28 teams. 7 four team regionals and the midwest winner got a bye as there was no west region at the time.

I still am not fond of the number of automatics bids but a 59 team field is much better than a 28 team field. Augie goes to MN and wins easily.

If you want to root for a winner, then root for Carroll. The MIAC had an accidental Final Four team in recent years and the conference has ridden on their laurels ever since. Roop Vegas says it will be an upset if Carroll wins by less than 11.5

I dont even know where to begin  . This certainly isnt the opinion of many in the MWC, but I thought it was humorous nonetheless. I guess this takes your MIAC vs. The World theory a little farther, eh MM?

[miacwatchmen]

MW-- I am a MIAC fan, first and foremost. heck, Id even cheer for YOUR alma mater if they ever made a postseason run 

I have plenty of respect for Smith & his team, and since its MIAC vs the world, Im spending a few minutes on Fins' bandwagaon (plus  Fins has an awesome bar on that bus!!)

Fins we got another one for the trip on Saturday. I call shotgun. Who's driving because I'll be drinking.

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

MW-- I am a MIAC fan, first and foremost. heck, Id even cheer for YOUR alma mater if they ever made a postseason run 

I have plenty of respect for Smith & his team, and since its MIAC vs the world, Im spending a few minutes on Fins' bandwagaon (plus  Fins has an awesome bar on that bus!!)

as long at the bus stops at The Shoe to drop me off, I'll drive it that far.. I dont do well in WI...something about cheese makes me "curd-el"
Fins we got another one for the trip on Saturday. I call shotgun. Who's driving because I'll be drinking.

[miacwatchmen]

Oh pish posh MM you're along for the long haul. Plus I'm sure you'd much rather watch your beloved Johnnies rather than watching the hated Tommies.

[John Gleich]

How did Stevens Point lose to Oshkosh in their first meeting?

Smith better be studying the tapes of that game.

...Point scored fewer points...

But seriously, Oshkosh found a way to slow Point down.  Point scored just 55 points in this game (12 and 13 points less than their next-lowest outputs against La Crosse and 27 less than the season average).

The WAY they slowed Point down was by controlling the tempo, playing BIG defense (I'll qualify this in a bit), keeping Point to their lowest shooting percentages of the season, and by shooting extremely well.

Controlling the tempo: Oshkosh would pound the air out of the ball for 25 seconds on the shot clock, then dump the ball into Gibson.  If Point doubled, that left someone open.  If they didn't, then Gibson usually made the shot (9/13).  When he missed, the slashing guards Johnson and Marsh collectively got 7 offensive rebounds.

Playing BIG defense:  With 7'1" Gibson on the inside (5 blocks), it really kept Point's guards from driving and cutting, which forced Point to take more three's out of rather stagnant offense.  For the season, Point is 4th in the country at 3 point percentage at 42.3%, and 42.5% of their shots are from deep.  They make 10.7 3's per game (8th in the country).  In this game, Point shot 31 3's, only making 12, and their 31 3's were 58.5% of their total shots.  Also, even in a slowed down game, Oshkosh forced more turnovers (11) than Point averages (leading all of college basketball at 8.4... this is better than 1 TO fewer than the next-closest team in D3).

Keeping Point to their lowest shooting percentages of the season- Pretty self explanitory, but again, largely due to the fact that easier baskets were very hard to come by due to Oshkosh's size and defense... Point had just 14 points in the paint, and while they don't have a dominating big man, cutters routinely get open off of back cuts, curls, drives, and dishes.  Point leads all of college basketball in assist to turnover ratio at 2.04:1 assists:TO's.  This is because Point's players can all take the ball off the dribble and they are a very good passing team, but they are also very unselfish.  All 5 starters can hit the 3, and each have hit at least 19.  Point guard El-Amin has been hitting his three's of late, he's 10/19 in the last 6 games, and in his last 5 games he's got 27 assists to 3 TO's.  He's leading the WIAC at 3.13 A:TO ratio... but he's not alone.  Starters Brian Beamish and Steve Hicklin are 2 and 3 in the league, and Krull is 5th.  Even Pete Rortvedt, Point's leading scorer, who takes the plurality of Point's shots has a 1.45 A:TO ratio.

But Rortvedt is a much bigger shooting threat.  He's averaging 3.37 3's per game (his 91 for the season has already broken Nick Bennett's single season record, and he's on pace to shatter Bennett's school record and the conference record as well), which is 19th in the country, and he shoots them at a 42.5% clip.  But Steve Hicklin, who plays opposite P.R. on the other wing is shooting 50%, which is good for a tie for second in the land.  Jon Krull will bang inside and at 6'4" is a bit undersized at the post... but he typically posts up in the short corner and uses his quickness to get around bigger defenders and his toughness to muscle the shot up.  But he also can step out and hit the long ball... he's hit 46 on the year and is shooting 44.2%.

Finally, when the game is winding down, in close games, Point seals games by shooting 81.8% from the free throw line.  This actually is down from 84% during the year, but if you're forced to try and foul and play the 3 for 2 against Point, it isn't going to work too well...

Well, here's a tidbit about Point... there's lots more that I could say, but this just a taste.  The only losses Point has had, they were beaten as I stated above, and they were simply outscored by D-2 Northern Michigan.  Any insights on St. John's?

[Drake Palmer]

Nobody in the MWC really likes Carroll, so the CCIW can have them back. That way you can say you got 2 yeams in this year. For now I'd say Augie should be a 15-20 point favorite and the MIAC has never impressed me so I wouldn't worry about the seedings.

...and the MIAC has never impressed me so I wouldn't worry about the seedings.

Even when Gustavus Adolphus went to the Final Four? 

I was not exposed to the D3Hoops.com universe when GA went to the Final Four. Since then the conference as ridden on their laurels I think. The only MIAC team I've ever seen was Hamline in 1977. They made the Final Four that year and the field was 28 teams. 7 four team regionals and the midwest winner got a bye as there was no west region at the time.

I still am not fond of the number of automatics bids but a 59 team field is much better than a 28 team field. Augie goes to MN and wins easily.

If you want to root for a winner, then root for Carroll. The MIAC had an accidental Final Four team in recent years and the conference has ridden on their laurels ever since. Roop Vegas says it will be an upset if Carroll wins by less than 11.5

I dont even know where to begin  . This certainly isnt the opinion of many in the MWC, but I thought it was humorous nonetheless. I guess this takes your MIAC vs. The World theory a little farther, eh MM?

Kneez, I don't know what to make of Roop.  I used to enjoy his humor when I visited the MWC board in the past, but his undisguised hatred of the MIAC I don't quite get.  Is it a Wisky-Minny thing?

[ustbumkneez]

DP, it very well could be. Probably not the case for this guy, as he openly admitted to not having seen a MIAC game since the 70s. I found the original post pretty dumbfounding, and responded in kind, but I get the feeling the guy is just trying to rustle some feathers.

I do know a lot of people (whom would fall into the category I would place this Roop guy, "uninformed sorta fan") who hold a grudge against the MIAC for the years in the past (prior to the Tournament expansion) when theyd get two teams into the tourney, and the WIAC would only have 1 rep. Growing up in a WIAC town, and constantly around the basketball program there, Id always hear that the WIAC was the toughest league in the country (which I happen to agree with) and that the MIAC was a "lesser" league (which I think is complete garbage). Anytime the MIAC got another team in, it was always at the expense of a more deserving WIAC team.

Funny thing is, the vast majority of these people hadnt seen a MIAC game, or could name more than one or two teams in the league. Theres just a sense with many, and Im not saying you PS or OS or other WIAC posters (more casual fans, people who live in the WIAC towns and simply go to the games), that the MIAC is the antithesis of the WIAC. The fact that the two conferences are so different from one another in everything from tuition cost, to playing style, to locations, adds to this notion.

Also, the "private" institution label helps fuel a belief that some have that there is a bias to the MIAC, as well as other conferences composed of primarily/all private schools over conferences populated by all public institutions, by selection committees and the NCAA as a whole. This season probably isnt a good one to bring that "idea" up in, considering the WIAC only got one team into the tourney ( ), but lack of familiarity probably festers it.

Im speaking on all of this as someone who grew up in a WIAC town, going to school with kids whose brothers and sisters played at WIAC schools, whose parents are WIAC alums, playing with and against guys who went onto careers at WIAC schools, and as some who played in the MIAC myself. The way I see it, each has its own brand of ball to offer, and when they meet up, its always fun to watch.