MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[concordia of the north]

is tebrake the last good guard?

what does woody think of olson?

what school in the miac do you think has a penchant for breeding guards? is gustavus below the curve? isn't it kind of a big deal to land and develop a real high quality guard?

st. thomas had buri and sweeney.
hamline had sam weiner? don't come over here saying derock is a point guard.
concordia had joe bueckers.
macalester had jackson.
carleton had jake phillips.
bethel had gilbert? was gilbert a point guard?
i would say ohme's last year saw him turn into a really good point guard.

who else is there? that list spans something like 7 seasons.  if i forgot some solid point guards, go ahead and throw them on there.  but you're talking about almost 80 rosters and off the top of my head i can come up with less than 10 high quality point guards.

[concordia of the north]

oh, and of course tebrake is on that list for GAC.

i would be very willing to add keto from augsburg.  he is pretty underrated.

[sumander]

Good luck Woody, Last Word is a relentless, articulate, impassioned spokesman for all things black & gold & GAC-like. 

Drake, New nickname for Willy?

Yeah, whadda ya think?   Or we could just shorten it to Word!   

I think either LW or Word! All the big stars go by either their initials or one name!

[Drake Palmer]

I said I'd stay out of this fray but since Kneez & BethelGuy aren't posting a lot this time of year, I thought I'd add an additional two cents worth.  With the Gusties' motion style of play it doesn't really require them to have an exceptional PG to run the show. 

However, to expand on something Willy said several pages ago - IMO the lack of a strong PG/ballhandler was one reason in the past couple of years Hamline could usually sneak in an annual win over GAC.  The Pipes were the only team in the league that really got after other teams & played a lot of that full court, high risk, gambling style of defense that put an excessive amount of pressure on the ball.  In the typical half court sets we traditionally see in the league, the Gusties could usually hide any deficiencies they might have on the ball handling side with their quick hitters & motion offense.

One last thing.  Woody  - I wouldn't be so quick to concede the 07-08 league title to Bethel yet.  If as rumored Westman comes back, I think the Johnnies might have a say in what happens.

Ok, back to the sidelines.  C'mon Word we're waiting.  (Edit:  Sorry Sum, I forgot)

[Willy Wonka]

I'll get to this tonight. Free golf and random work meeting are pretty demanding during my summer days

And my home internet has been out since Sunday night 

[Woody]

What, I take a little holiday break & return to this mini-mayhem?  From the sounds of it, it seems like the season is right around the corner rather than another 4 months away.  I like it. 

Maybe I've missed it, but do we know what Woody's credentials are regarding this topic, compared to Willy Wonka's? Wonka has the upper hand in my mind.

Help - someone pick me up off the office floor.  I accidentally dragged my keyboard & monitor down on top of me after reading Pat's comments.   Pat, you're coming to Willy's defense?   

I find it interesting that the Gusties have yet to post a story on their website on the hiring of Josh Drinkall, but still have the story up regarding Aaron Kahl's move to Dakota Wesleyan.  I posted about Drinkall 3 weeks ago, 6/18 & at the time they didn't even have his bio posted.  And as of today, they still don't have an article posted announcing the hiring of Drinkall.

Sounds like you've got a bit of a GAC ax to grind there Woody.  Are you any relation to Funbballer?    I will admit that I have heard similar comments passed along to high school guards considering Gustavus.  Something along the lines of - "if you ever want to dribble the ball again or during your college career, I'd consider another school other than Gustavus."  With that being said, it's a little difficult to knock their results.  Here are a few highlights:

(7) MIAC playoff championships
(6) NCAA Sweet 16s
(3) Elite Eights
(1) National championship finalist

But I've said my piece, I think I'll sit back & watch this one unfold.  This could be a "goodun." I'm still recovering from my Wohler beatdown.   

Good luck Woody, Last Word is a relentless, articulate, impassioned spokesman for all things black & gold & GAC-like. 

Funbballer? Don't know him, but I like the name.

Ax to grind? None at all. Hanson's had success, I just don't care for him or anybody that carries themselves as if "it's all about me."

Mr. Wonka and Mr. Coleman in the same corner? Interesting!

[Woody]

Regarding Westman.....I heard it's definitive that he's not coming back.

Who's better than Bethel?

[piperinsider]

Add in Jerome Williams at Hamline into that PG (lack of) discussion.

[Nites]

I'll get to this tonight. Free golf and random work meeting are pretty demanding during my summer days

And my home internet has been out since Sunday night 

Please make sure you imbibe heavily while playing golf and over dinner so we can have some entertaining responses to read in the morning.     

[Willy Wonka]

As anyone who has attended a Stiffyfest with me can attest, Wonka doesn't drink (though he's been known to knock down 1 or 2 or 12 of the burgers and brats). I'd like to think that it doesn't make me any less entertaining tho

With that said, let's jump right into it...buckle up and be ready to take a few breaks. I've thrown in stars in a weak attempt to ease the changing of topics

Ax to grind? None at all. Hanson's had success, I just don't care for him or anybody that carries themselves as if "it's all about me."

An interesting observation — for that's all it can be. For anyone who has played against him (re: concordia of the north, BETHEL34), he comes off as a classy character. I'd refer you to CNorth's recent posts or BETHEL34's gushing (last summer) about his addressing the BU team after defeating GAC in the MIAC playoffs a few years back.

Or perhaps you'd be referring to the way he handles himself on the sidelines...seated stoically. The anti-Wohler, if you will. Coaches who do their work before the games start and rarely get riled up at the refs (he has something like 2 technicals in the last 10 years)? Imagine that! However, I'm sure it's tough to watch as he's clearly begging for all the attention to be focused directly on his chair.

Or maybe you talked to him — please put 5 bucks down for Wonka in Vegas on "doubtful" — and didn't like his biting sarcasm spoken in quiet, even tones with barely the hint of a smile. He's clearly seeking to be the center of attention ala Bruce Pearl with those mannerisms.

Or maybe you watched him shrink from the spotlight of the Salem press when GAC made its run to the title game in 2002-03, making jokes with the media that only SID Tim Kennedy enjoyed.

Or maybe you were invited to Hanson's wedding years ago where he wanted the attention so much he refused to dance in front of the guests — even with his new wife — preferring to hide in the background chatting with guests.

Should I continue or is my point made to your satisfaction, Woody?

************************

On to the lack of development of GAC's guards...

The classic "develop" story from GAC guards of recent years would be Chris TeBrake, and Hanson had little to do with it. He had a terrible hitch in his shot his first two years when he shot a reluctant 35% from deep (30-85) but smoothed it out and was 42% his last two in nearly twice as many attempts (65-154) while becoming our de facto go-to player.

TeBrake did this mostly through time spent in the gym, as he clearly didn't hit the weights — nor does Hanson require such from his players. His philosophy is that it's D3 and players will do what they want/need to in order to become better players. Placing blame for ineffective development and/or weight programs is for D1/D2 coaches to deal with, as D3 programs are judged on a lot more than won/loss records.

For my class, the drive was there and we all did what we could to get better each offseason. I'm not close enough to the situation anymore to know what work each player puts in, but I do know every guard on the roster right now has clear limitations that a Bure, TeBrake, Keating, etc did not have. That's just a fact that development won't change, and also why we're talking D3.

As Drake has already touched on, GAC's offense is run in such a way that a "true" PG is not exactly needed, similar to Phil Jackson's triangle offense. Heck, Sowden and Espo brought the ball up against presses in recent years. But, if you're a run-n-gun guard, Gustavus isn't a good fit for your game. I don't see that as a bad thing, though the no-dribble dialogue that's often expressed over these boards gets overblown. Less dribbling and looking to feed the post (GAC) is better than more dribbling and jacking up 3s (BU), IMO, though that's all most guards want to do...but that's another issue.

(As an aside, Hanson's biggest prize during my years was 6-7ish post Adam Thorson from Rushford-Peterson. The kid was an athletic freak that put TeBrake to shame — he dropped like 48 on UST's JV one year while playing against Shimek and others, I believe — but could never put everything together in order to make an impact on varsity. Yet Hanson insisted we feed him on the block in practice and spent an inordinate amount of time working with him before/during/after practice. The moral of this story should be clear...not everyone develops as you'd hope and/or expect.)

**********************

As for Woody's other going-out-on-a-limb post...

Now, the question is, will Hanson REALLY let him coach and make decisions? If so, my sources tell me "that would be a huge change from the past".....plus they also say "that being he's taken over the Gustie BB Camps from Bob Erdman, that he's too busy counting all his money and has no interest to recruit."

Of course, it's quite apparent he's done a lousy job of recruiting the last 2-3 years anyway and any guards worth a hoot won't play at Gustavus. Guards are NEVER developed under Hanson and if anyone might question that statement, consider the lack of productivity from the guards in recent years.

I'm curious as to what to make of the first part, as I've already covered the second. If you're friends with Mike Boschee, I know this didn't come from him. He did whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted on defense — during games and during practice. Heck, he practically forced yours truly into the starting lineup in 2002-03 so your Hanson dictatorship argument would seem to hold no water prior to that year.

David Flom took over the defensive side of the ball in 2003-04 and installed his own sets and buzz words, while gaining many of the same freedoms as Boschee. He asked for advice from players and, presumably, coaches much more often than Boschee but still retained relative autonomy on his side of the ball. This seems an improbable source for your criticism as well, especially since he was one of around 30-40 recent alumni who returned to play in a mini-tournament at GAC around 2 months ago.

Aaron Kahl, who also played, took over for a year this past season with less than spectacular results after shining on the women's side for years. He was also thrown into a tough situation, where two of his best players (Wittwer and Doble) are borderline terrible defensive players, and the whole changing dynamics could have been a little weird. He went from Boschee's grad assistant peon, to cornerstone of the GAC women's program, to Boschee's erstwhile replacement in the span of about 5 years. If you know Kahl, this could possibly be the source of your info...though I still doubt it. He's a classy fella.

Having known the student assistants over the past 7 years, I doubt you heard much grumbling from them. They're included in discussions and during the cutting process at tryouts — which is where I think Woody's "source" comes into play.

The toughest part of any coach's job is making cuts, as I've touched on numerous times before. I know Hanson has gone through his share of disagreeable cuts of nice guys over the years — Hoff, Jon Lien and others pop to mind readily — and some still harbor ill will for that, or others for a lack of playing time despite making the team.

If this is the reason for your attack, the answer is in the pudding. Hanson has a track record of cutting upper classmen who he doesn't see getting PT in favor of getting the youngsters some seasoning on the practice floor. This is the exact opposite of what Haller does on the women's side, where she refuses to make cuts and keeps all the upperclassmen. I'm not sure there is a right answer here, but I know which format *I'd* use if ever in that position...let's just say Hanson and I are on the same page.

If you're referring to not allowing argument with offensive methods, I'd *FINALLY* agree with one of your "points." GAC's motion offense, while sounding simple, is an extremely complex thing that most freshmen don't grasp right away — nor by the end of the year. Hanson often stops practices and film sessions and asks you what you're doing and why in order to get his point across, even with juniors and seniors. When it's clicking, it's a beautiful thing. When it's not, Hanson will tell you about it. It's not always a warm, fuzzy feeling to get called out...but we're not exactly sitting around in a circle crossstitching fields of flowers either.

[Pat Coleman]

I don't know why you guys would be surprised -- Wonka is clearly on the more experienced side of this argument here and I'd be silly to be in the other corner.

[Nites]

Thanks Willy, or is it now officially LW?  I knew you wouldn't disappoint!   

Okay, Woody, you're up, although if it were me, I'd probably just take my whupping and go quietly as I suspect Wonka/LW is just warming up.    

[sumander]

Okay, Woody, you're up, although if it were me, I'd probably just take my whupping and go quietly as I suspect Wonka/LW is just warming up.    

Nites, +k Gotta agree with you on that!

Word, Great post +k as well. Done in a very porfessional manner as well!

[abominable_snowman]

I love the new LW moniker for wonka....

as a diversion is the kitchen is getting too hot check out the new look for the UST hoops page

http://www.tommiesports.com/mbb/

they also have a new recruitment video that's more of an ike highlight reel.

http://www.tommiesports.com/mbb/media/

[Drake Palmer]

As a recent old schooler rapped- "it's getting hot in heah"   

Woody – Welcome to the board!!  Nites & Sumander are right.  I'd just begrudgingly man up & say – "ok Wonka, you got me" and pick a different topic to joust over next time.   

I'd imagine Word was working on his putting in his living room last night & every few minutes would stroll over to his computer & rap out a few lines.  Nice job Word.

Pat – There's no doubt that Willy had the decided advantage in this postal bludgeoning. However, given the nature of your sometimes adversarial bouts with Mr. Wonka, I think us posters were surprised to see you take the position of being his wingman – that's all. 

Snow – That's a great looking new Tommie website & the graphics are cool, but it might take some adjustment for us older posters to read the miniscule white text against that purple background.  Funny, the video shows the Tommies laying the smack down against Gusties.  I especially like that backdoor cut & basket in the early moments of the video. (Smirk)