MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Willy Wonka]

AO - Do we really have to have this conversation every year?

A bad GAC team (unless you want to argue 14-13 is good) played its best game of the year to beat a good but not great UST team who might have played its worst game of the year (not counting the playoff choke job).

A dominant WSU team was up 40-24 at the half and then appeared to play its bench most of the second half in letting Bethany Lutheran rack up 55 points to make it look close. For the year, WSU allowed just 66 PPG. That points to a pretty clear indication of how hard the Warriors tried and how much the starters played/cared about a petty D3 school in their season opener.

For what it's worth, a team of 2004-06 GAC grads pounded a WSU team of mostly non-starters by 40 at Star of the North. Don't dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back for "only" losing by 9.

[AO]

Sure 14-13 is bad by Gustavus standards, but they definitely seemed to have a little more talent than their record indicated.  I don't care if they played their worst/best game, they lost and a little respect is probably deserved to Bethany.  They aren't the same team you used to beat up in pre-season scrimmages. 

Star of the North?  Really?...  I'll take an exhibition game with the entire team and a big crowd(more than 3x bigger than anything gac saw last year) over a summer tourney. 

I don't know what you have against this conversation.  Hamline scheduled some very good competition including Northwestern and Scholastica who have beaten them the last couple years.  Bethel, on the other hand, schedules the bottom of the UMAC, and refuses to play Northwestern, despite the obvious rivalry implications- seeing it as a lose-lose as a victory is expected by all who are ignorant about the strength of the UMAC, and a loss means the christian kids looking at Bethel or Northwestern are swayed to Lake Johanna rather than valentine.  While I'm talking about Bethel, Northwestern and Bethel do clash in Baseball where the Eagles have had the upper hand in every game the past couple years, though every game was played at Bethel ( due to rainouts ).

[Greek Tragedy]

I'd hardly say I'm BASHING the UMAC.  And you are right, I know little of the UMAC.  But, I don't think I'd be wrong if I said it's common/general knowledge that the UMAC, as a whole, is not a very good conference.  I mentioned the [old] LMC and I'd probably include the SLIAC in that as well.  Over the years, I've tried to become more familiar with not only the "power" conferences and the more well-known conferences, but also the little ones as well.  I'm not going to dig through the archives (at least not at this time), but the national reputation of conferences can generally be based on their performances in the NCAAs...something that the LMC had little, if any, success in and up until recently, the MWC as well (Lawrence and Carroll have helped the conference in the national spot light). 

So, I'm not sure if the UMAC is "your" conference or not, so I apologize if you think I was solely pointing out UMAC as the only bad conference.

Sorry polluting the MIAC board! lol 

To be fair, if you'd like...can you give me a list of games that you feel are "quality wins"?  If you would like to continue this on the UMAC board, I have no problem with that.

[Gregory Sager]

I heard UGA is one of the toughest places to play. 

Yes, the folks down in Athens, Georgia take great pride in UGA's Sanford Stadium and its infamous privet hedges.

I hear that GAC's a pretty tough place to play as well.

[BETHEL34]

  Bethel, on the other hand, schedules the bottom of the UMAC, and refuses to play Northwestern, despite the obvious rivalry implications- seeing it as a lose-lose as a victory is expected by all who are ignorant about the strength of the UMAC, and a loss means the Christian kids looking at Bethel or Northwestern are swayed to Lake Johanna rather than valentine.  While I'm talking about Bethel, Northwestern and Bethel do clash in Baseball where the Eagles have had the upper hand in every game the past couple years, though every game was played at Bethel ( due to rainouts ).

AO - you are right, Bethel refuses to play Northwester because they are scared of being in that lose lose situation.  Now, I have always bashed and criticized Bethel's non-conference games.  Why they put Crown, Martin Luther, and other bottom teams of bad conference on their non conference schedule blows my mind.  But in Northwestern's case, from 98-99 to 03-04, they have been in the Bethel tip off tourny 6 times.  3 out of 6 times they have met in the Championship game, and Bethel has won all 3.  The other 3 times, northwestern didn't make the championship.

You also lose a lot of credibility when you try make a point that if Northwestern might possibly win a game against Bethel, that that could be a deciding factor for a Christian athlete to go to Northwestern over BU.  Now you are just fishing for nonsense...

[AO]

I'm a little confused at your post there, you agree with me about the lose-lose situation, but then go on to say that I lose credibility for making a guess about the recruiting impact?  I would think that a winning team would be a better recruiting draw than a losing team.  It was for me anyways.

Those three games where Northwestern played against Bethel at the tip-off tourney, they all seemed to be pretty good games.  I only saw the 2003 game which had a couple of lead changes in the second half, but the other scores were close.  The previous two years that you didn't mention were wins of 20 and 5 for Northwestern by the way.  A home and home series would make a lot of sense starting in 08.

For what it's worth, the JV programs from NWC and Bethel have split their games together the past few years.   Northwestern also has the latest win in the JV football clash with Bethel.  I've heard stories about the big rowdy crowds from past football games with Bethel and Northwestern, though Northwestern was not nearly at the level it is now back then.

[BETHEL34]

...

I'm a little confused at your post there, you agree with me about the lose-lose situation, but then go on to say that I lose credibility for making a guess about the recruiting impact?  I would think that a winning team would be a better recruiting draw than a losing team.  It was for me anyways.

AO - That was sarcasim...I guess I didn't lay it on thick enough.  From what I have heard from our coaching, Northwester pulled out of our tip off tourny.  We didn't stop inviting them.  Bethel does not refuse to play Northwestern becuase of your lose lose situation you speek of...it sounds like Northwestern stopped wanting to play Bethel.   

Obviously a winning team woudl be a better draw than a losing team.  But you a talking about one game where Bethel might lose to Northwestern have an effect on the recruting...No athlete that is good enough to actually be recruted hard by both Bethel and Northwestern is going to choose Northwestern because they might have beaten Bethel one year.  If they are looking specifically at their decision from a basketball point of view, they would pick Bethel because of the Conference they play in.  Unless they felt they could go to Northwestern and get a lot more Playing Time of course.  The last factor in the world would be, "oh, Northwester beat Bethel last year, I think I am going to go there instead."  One game between the two would never play a factor in recruting.  They are way to different of christian colleges to say that one game would help one side or the other in recruting...

Are you really bringing up JV?       You really are desperate

[BETHEL34]

AO, what sport were you recruited for??

[John Gleich]

How did I know that AO would show up when I mentioned UMAC? 

I'd say it's more surprising that point special and old school showed up to talk smack about the UMAC though they have no connection to, or knowledge about, the conference.

AO,

Though I may not have "connection to" the UMAC, I do have some knowledge...

Northwestern played 0 WIAC teams 0-0
Bethany lost to UWRF 0-1
St. Scholastica beat UW Superior, lost to UW Superior, and lost to UWEC 1-2
Martin Luther Lost to UWW 0-1
Northland Beat UW Superior twice, lost to UWEC, lost to UW Stout 2-2
Crown lost to Superior and lost to RF 0-2

All told, 3-8, with only one game against the top half of the WIAC from last year. 

The conference is very young.  Not all members are full members of the NCAA.  The comments made by OS and myself were made in jest, because the UMAC doesn't have the reputation of other midwestern conferences.

[Greek Tragedy]

I heard UGA is one of the toughest places to play. 

Yes, the folks down in Athens, Georgia take great pride in UGA's Sanford Stadium and its infamous privet hedges.

That's what I meant! lol...   (I honestly have no idea why I typed UGA instead of GAC...my apologies to the MIAC faithful.)


Regarding Bethel (heck, it's the MIAC, we may as well talk about a MIAC team)...I'm confused about their philosophy on scheduling then.  Do they just schedule really good teams from really good conferences then?  This way, it's a WIN-WIN situation.  If they lose, they are expected to lose and if they win, WOW, HUGE WIN FOR THE PROGRAM...just curious on what goes on over there.  What would ever happen if Bethel would actually lose to a "lower level" UMAC team?  Would the campus shut down? 

[AO]

...

I'm a little confused at your post there, you agree with me about the lose-lose situation, but then go on to say that I lose credibility for making a guess about the recruiting impact?  I would think that a winning team would be a better recruiting draw than a losing team.  It was for me anyways.

AO - That was sarcasim...I guess I didn't lay it on thick enough.  From what I have heard from our coaching, Northwester pulled out of our tip off tourny.  We didn't stop inviting them.  Bethel does not refuse to play Northwestern becuase of your lose lose situation you speek of...it sounds like Northwestern stopped wanting to play Bethel.   

Obviously a winning team woudl be a better draw than a losing team.  But you a talking about one game where Bethel might lose to Northwestern have an effect on the recruting...No athlete that is good enough to actually be recruted hard by both Bethel and Northwestern is going to choose Northwestern because they might have beaten Bethel one year.  If they are looking specifically at their decision from a basketball point of view, they would pick Bethel because of the Conference they play in.  Unless they felt they could go to Northwestern and get a lot more Playing Time of course.  The last factor in the world would be, "oh, Northwester beat Bethel last year, I think I am going to go there instead."  One game between the two would never play a factor in recruting.  They are way to different of christian colleges to say that one game would help one side or the other in recruting...

Are you really bringing up JV?       You really are desperate

Sarcaism?  No wonder I had some difficulty detecting the "sarcasm".   When Northwestern started the move to D-3 in 2004 we had a few less games to work with.  Used to play 30 and upwards, now it would be very difficult to play in our own Coke tournament to start the year, and play in Bethel's tip-off tourney.  So now we're down to 3 games against MIAC schools.  In my opinion Bethel should be one of those 3 schools every single year.  It's obvious that Bethel would have a better test against Northwestern than they do against Crown who is about 4-55 against Northwestern all-time.  It must be said that Crown did come within 4 of Bethel last year, but I'm really not sure how.

The MIAC is a good conference with a lot of tradition, and definitely can be a draw for recruits, but there is no doubt about the competitiveness the UMAC has had with the MIAC in multiple sports.  There are so many factors in picking a school that a single game shouldn't push a kid one way or the other, but it sure might make an impact.  And for the record, though I received a few letters and went to a game, I'd say I recruited myself to Northwestern for Basketball.  I felt comfortable there when I visited a class and went to chapel and thought that if I was going to pay thousands for a private Christian school I would go to a place that actually tried to live by Christian principles.  (I'm talking St. Olaf vs. Northwestern- not Bethel vs. Northwestern)

AO,

Though I may not have "connection to" the UMAC, I do have some knowledge...

Northwestern played 0 WIAC teams 0-0

Tough to gain a reputation against the WIAC when you don't play them.  But first things first, the UMAC has got to work up to the MIAC before it can get up to the national power that is the WIAC (though 3-8 doesn't sound too bad-curious what the MIAC vs. WIAC record was).

[WeRFans]

...

I'm a little confused at your post there, you agree with me about the lose-lose situation, but then go on to say that I lose credibility for making a guess about the recruiting impact?  I would think that a winning team would be a better recruiting draw than a losing team.  It was for me anyways.


...I'd say I recruited myself to Northwestern for Basketball.  I felt comfortable there when I visited a class and went to chapel and thought that if I was going to pay thousands for a private Christian school I would go to a place that actually tried to live by Christian principles.  (I'm talking St. Olaf vs. Northwestern- not Bethel vs. Northwestern)

Does anyone else on this board find the above statement ironic, especially given the recent tone?  You just can't get to -278 Karma sitting still.

And as long as we're on the subject of continuing to bash everyone else's school and their athletic program, we might as well question the education provided during those years.  Case in point, the word "anyway" does not end in an "s".

[Gregory Sager]

Does anyone else on this board find the above statement ironic, especially given the recent tone? 

I'm just enjoying the fact that AO's sarcastic response to BETHEL34's misspelling of "sarcasm" included an inadvertent and completely different misspelling of "sarcasm".

I try to avoid being a spelling nazi on Posting Up, but I never miss a chance to point it out when one of them shoots himself in the foot with his own literary Luger.

[AO]

Maybe I'm really a terrible speller or it's way too early in the morning, but I'm not seeing where i misspelled sarcasm.   

WeRFans:  When you disagree with Johnnies on the football board, it tends to hurt your karma.  That's one of many instances where Northwestern and Bethel can unite. 

[Pat Coleman]

You didn't. You misspelled his misspelling of sarcasm.