MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[demoney]

If St. Johns and Hamline both are going to be playoff teams this upcoming season.  What teams will be left out of the playoff hunt when march rolls around?

[Cardinalboy]

local coach thanks for your input..a source from st mary's told me they added a lot of juco transfers this year and some solid freshmen that would be good down the road. One of there transfer's is Jarvier Pitchford. His team wasn't all that good but he could fill it up pretty well. In 30games he avg 25pts a game and shot 46% from the three point line. And for those of you who don' t believe these numbers..check this website out.
http://www.illinoisjuco.com/basketballmenpolls.html

[miacsuperfan]

not sure who would be left out of the playoffs if sju and ham make it, but i does sound like ust reloaded again, bet  had a good recruiting summer,  and con snagged a couple of kids.   also heard that gac had a fairly quiet recruiting spring/summer, meaning they must feel like they are pretty well stocked.   so it is hard to imagine any of these teams not finishing near the top.
every year there are some sophs around the league who played jv, were injured or inelligible as freshman who step up and play well.   can anyone id some kids who fit the bill?

[crazy_carl]

LMNC et al--

I think Carleton will have enough to challenge this year, but whether they do or not is always the question.  Forkrud and Drake should be two of the better players in the conference.  Additionally, the Knights' PG, junior Jake Phillips, begins his third straight year as the starter.  He tends to be underrated around the league because he is usually the fourth or fifth option in Carleton's offense, but should be more of a priority this year.  Brian Sharkey, Mike Kootsikas, and Tucker Schieck, who all saw playing time last year, will be in the mix for the remaining two starting spots, in addition to a strong recruiting class of five or six players. 

[localcoach]

cardinalboy - Thanks for the SMU update.  Your comments got me thinking about another issue.  Why is it that nobody in the MIAC recruits players from the junior college ranks?  If St. Mary's is bringing in some guys this year that's probably the first group in a long time in this league.  I believe that Augsburg would get the occassional junior college player in the past and Hamline brought in Jesse Hendricks from Anoka-Ramsey CC, but it rarely happens.  Would anyone like to offer any insight?

demoney - I don't know who will be left out.  The "veteran" posters on this board all gave their predictions earlier this summer and all that I can remember is that Bethel and MAC were a little farther down the list this year.

carl - I agree, Carleton has the potential to make some noise atop the MIAC this year.  I think Phillips play will be important, as Baquero's was last year. 

[miacsuperfan]

local coach,  perhaps the academic requirements are a bit stiff for a number of the juco players around the area.    many of these guys attend jucos because of academic needs.   and it is likely that many of the same kids leave those schools with similar needs.   the fact that st. mary's found one is probably a bit of a stroke of luck (genius?) 

[Cardinalboy]

Superfan, I don't think it is a stroke of luck because I remember being told they will have 4 juco transfers and the scorer from the earlier post isn't the best one! The coaching staff wanted to add some players with some experience because they were real young last year. Even this years team is will not have one senior. As far as academics are concerened, 2 of the 4 transfers have there AA degrees. So, I guess I am a little partial about that.

Localcoach, I believe most coaches thinks it's too hard to get a juco transfer and most schools have a deadline to get kids admitted to school. Which is something SMU don't. Juco kids want to play at the scholarship level, so DIII have to wait a while. I think that is the main reason.

[Drake Palmer]

A couple of thoughts: 

1)  JC recruiting  - when Ammann was at Augsburg he had a tradition of recruiting JC players.  In some years a third if not more of the roster was full of JC & other college transfer students.  Some of them panned out, some of them didn't.  During the glory years with Devean George I believe the Auggies had a couple of key contributors that were from the juco ranks.

Like them or not, I personally respect Augsburg for giving non-traditional students & student athletes from varied socioeconomic backgrounds & ethnicity the opportunity to succeed in college. ...Provided the student has the academic  potential & drive to succeed in a 4 year college setting.   IMO, in later years the pressure to win became too great & Amman over relied upon transfer players (the quick fix) rather than developing his players.

It doesn't surprise me at all that SMU picked up a player or two from the Chicago area. Look at their roster from the last couple of years.  Over the years, the various coaching staffs at SMU in Winona had a decent pipeline to the many Catholic high schools in the greater Chicagoland area. University of  Dubuque & Loras College,  two Catholic schools further down the Mississippi in Dubuque, Iowa have proven to be a decent draws for kids looking to get out of Chicago.

My other theory regarding the general lack of Juco players in the MIAC is that most players that go the juco route are kids who aspire to be basketball scholarship athletes. They disdainfully look down their nose at playing at non scholarship granting D3 schools.  It's the old ego thing - "yeah I got a scholie to St. Outlaw University" (in west of Bumfunk ND,SD, IA, MT, etc. ), & sat on the bench.  

It appears that the young coaches in the league, Wohler at Hamline & Trewick at SMU are taking the "let's recruit as many players as possible" approach & seeing how many of the players will pan out.  They'd be wise to review the results Ammann had with using a high number of transfers & recruits each year.  It'll be interesting to watch their respective teams' development along with Coach Griess's team at Augsburg over the next couple of years as they attempt to build up their respective programs.

2) I think that only one school, but not both Hamline & St. Johns might make the playoffs this upcoming season. 

[keith45]

Actually, I can think of a few decent players in your conference from juco's...especially the juco conference in MN..I played at Nothland CC, way up north (Thief River Falls),and when I left there, I was considering Augsburg..Augsburg and St. Schol staff were at a ton of our games back in 95-96.Tom Chatman from Fergus Falls ccplayed at Augsburg his senior year, after transferring from UIU...Ryan Retlzaff played for his dad at Fergus Falls, then played in your conference..those are the 2 good players I rmember from when I was in juco..I know more players have come from that conference, but they were role players..I don't know how all those players from Minneapolis CC get out of Minnesota?!?!?

[miacsuperfan]

drake palmer,   well said.   and since many juco players have been "scholarship seekers," once they have come to the realization that they are more likely a d3 type player---they then have to deal with the 25 to 30k sticker price at most of the miac schools.   plus the issue that most of the good coaches in the league are likely interested in developing their own players from the get-go.
don't know about trewick, but i will be you that b. wohler will recruit alot of kids---actually, he will recruit alot of moms.   he has some style, looks good, talks the talk, and could play a bit himself.   
ok, so i will ask it.   how come trewick isn't still at johnnieville waiting for smith to retire?    is that impatience or does anybody know.

[Cardinalboy]

Why do schools recruit JC players?
1. To get a quick fix
2. To fill a void at a position when a younger player isn't ready
3. To gain some experience

I believe these are the top three reasons for getting juco kids. Think about this is trewick's first recruiting class. If he wants to be good right away at a school that has been traditionally bad. He can't get high school studs right away. Top high school players don't want to go to a 5-20 program. Trewick has to win now if he has a chance to get really good high school players in the future to build the program. I seriously doubt if this is going to be a common recruiting tool for him.

Good thoughts Drake

[localcoach]

I thought that some of you might find this interesting and possibly even humorous.  Can you imagine something like this happening in the MIAC?

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050823/SPT0101/308230021/1064

[Gregory Sager]

Drake, the University of Dubuque isn't a Catholic school. It's affiliated with the Presbyterian Church USA.

[Drake Palmer]

Greg - you're absolutely right & I stand corrected.  I'd forgotten there are three colleges in Dubuque - Loras College, University of Dubuque & Clarke College.  I must have been confusing the University of Dubuque with Clarke College, which is affiliated with the Catholic church.

In any event,  the point I was trying to make was that colleges in western Wisconsin, Iowa & southeastern MN have enjoyed in my opinion, unusual success recruiting Chicago area high schools.  I've personally found this recruiting oddity somewhat interesting.  Especially when you consider that Winona, LaCrosse, Platteville & Dubuque are not exactly booming, metropolitan areas.  But then again, the relative quiet of the bluff country & river towns may be the appeal for some of these Chicago students.

[Gregory Sager]

In my opinion, Drake, it's a combination of three things: shoe leather, connections, and talent surplus.

Shoe leather: The coaches of outlying midwestern cities who are willing to put in the long hours spinning the odometers on their car dashboards making the trip to Chicago and back are the ones most likely to be rewarded by luring players to their schools. Loras has always been good about this; the Loras assistant was seen at as many high school games in Chicagoland this past season as were a lot of coaches from colleges based right here in the area.

Connections: Oftentimes the coaches at these schools are from Chicagoland, or coached in the area at some time in the past. I know that the previous St. Mary's regime had had Chicagoland coaching experience of some sort, and I figured that that his relationships with Chicagoland high school coaches and talent scouts explained how he was getting players from this area.

Talent surplus: There are over eight million people in the Chicago metropolitan area. That means lots and lots of high school and juco basketball players, more talent, really, than can be accommodated by the basketball programs of local colleges and universities. And with the massive size of the area in terms of prep basketball -- there are fifty high schools represented in the Chicago Public League alone -- the competition is fierce, not only in terms of actual high school leagues but also summer leagues, tryout camps, etc. Quality varies from player to player, of course, but overall the quality of Chicagoland players tends to be pretty good simply by dint of competition.

This is a good place to recruit ballplayers. If you're a coach who has the patience, the connections, and the willingness to work hard and put in long hours on the interstate highways, you may very well be rewarded for it. But, of course, time is a resource just like any other. A lot of coaches in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa consider it a better use of their time and gas money to stick to recruiting players closer to home.