MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[sumander]

Frank's take on the playoff permutations from the J's perspective.

[AO]

I was looking through the slideshow for the new tommie gym and noticed this note concerning the new arena, "There will be more space between the main court and the bleachers than in the current arena."

How is this not a downgrade?  Why would you advertise something that decreases the fan experience?   You couldn't fit everybody in the gym on wednesday night and you're going to conciously make the decision to eliminate a couple rows of seating? It's not as bad as putting a track around a football field, but it's close.  besides that small bit, the place looked amazing, probably one-upping macalester.  Looks like I have to get to work if I plan on giving $60M to build the AO fieldhouse at Northwestern.

[papahoops]

Willy,
I usually agree with you but........
I realize Lonnie Robinson is an outstanding defender and he should make any all-DEFENSIVE squad. As for having a preference on all an all conference selection,  McCoy is obviously my choice between the two. I'm going disregard all stats and say this...If I'm going into a big game and am given the choice of leaving either McCoy or Robinson off the roster for that game, I don't want to give up McCoy. I'd cover Robinson's defense with minutes for Archer or Ervin or go with Halvorsen if I want more offense/size to fill the slot, but I feel there would be much more of a drop off filling in for Al given all he brings to the table.

[Drake Palmer]

Willy - I'm sorta with you on the Robinson McCoy debate for All Conference debate..Robinson could & should be deserving of All-Conference mention as well.  As Mose might say  –"aww what the heck add all the Tommie starters to the All Conference team. 

However, I just did a bit of interesting research.  With one notable exception, during the past 10 years, whenever an underclassman earned the Sixth Man of the year award, the following year they were named to an All Conference team.  The one slight exception to this trend was Chris TeBrake from Gustavus.  As a soph in '02 Tebrake won the 6th man award, in '03 he made the All-Defensive team as a junior.  Then to cap off his stellar career Tebrake earned All Conference selection as a senior in '04.

The other interesting trend was former GAC superstar Doug Espenson.  I didn't have time to thoroughly check this but in the past 10 years I believe he was the only player to receive the 6th Man award & All-Conference selection in the same year.  Espo did this in '04 as a junior.  In addition, he earned the small Triple Crown as he also made the All Defensive team that same year.  For his encore performance in the 04-05 season, Espenson nails the Big Triple by making All Conference, Player of the Year & the All Defensive team!

Season   Player       School    YEAR   Following year

99-00   Kip Sparby              UST          SR     N/A
00-01       Kermit Cooper        CORD       SR     N/A

01-02       Chris TeBrake          GAC         SO     All Defensive 03
(03-04       Chris TeBrake            GAC        SR    All Conference)

02-03      Nic Marx                   UST          SR   N/A
03-04      Doug Espenson        GAC         JR     All- Conference, All-D, & MVP

04-05     Bryan Schnettler        UST          SO  All-Conference 06 & 07
05-06     Trevor Wittwer             GAC         SO  All Conference  07 & 08

06-07    Brady Brink                 SJU            JR   All Conference
07-08    Al McCoy                     UST            JR   ??

                                 

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

I was looking through the slideshow for the new tommie gym and noticed this note concerning the new arena, "There will be more space between the main court and the bleachers than in the current arena."

How is this not a downgrade?  Why would you advertise something that decreases the fan experience?   You couldn't fit everybody in the gym on wednesday night and you're going to conciously make the decision to eliminate a couple rows of seating? It's not as bad as putting a track around a football field, but it's close.  besides that small bit, the place looked amazing, probably one-upping macalester.  Looks like I have to get to work if I plan on giving $60M to build the AO fieldhouse at Northwestern.

How is moving the first row of bleachers a few scant feet from the base & sidelines while adding 200 seats in total "elimintating a couple rows of seating"?  The total capacity is INCREASING (for those of you with a NW diploma, that means MORE people can be seated in the arena). The space between the first row and the playing area will be slightly larger, which makes sense, considering the feet spectators in that first row are practically in the playing area.

Construction costs spiral upwards. The Shoe was built 28 years ago for $5mill, the new facility will cost $52mil. So figure you may need $500 mill in 30 years to build a comparable facility. $60mill then wont build much

Pops-- why stop with the UST starting five all on the all-conference team? Why not all 15 guys who have scored this season? Throw in a few assistant coaches, fans and gym sweepers, too

[AO]

I was looking through the slideshow for the new tommie gym and noticed this note concerning the new arena, "There will be more space between the main court and the bleachers than in the current arena."

How is this not a downgrade?  Why would you advertise something that decreases the fan experience?   You couldn't fit everybody in the gym on wednesday night and you're going to conciously make the decision to eliminate a couple rows of seating? It's not as bad as putting a track around a football field, but it's close.  besides that small bit, the place looked amazing, probably one-upping macalester.  Looks like I have to get to work if I plan on giving $60M to build the AO fieldhouse at Northwestern.

How is moving the first row of bleachers a few scant feet from the base & sidelines while adding 200 seats in total "elimintating a couple rows of seating"?  The total capacity is INCREASING (for those of you with a NW diploma, that means MORE people can be seated in the arena). The space between the first row and the playing area will be slightly larger, which makes sense, considering the feet spectators in that first row are practically in the playing area.

Construction costs spiral upwards. The Shoe was built 28 years ago for $5mill, the new facility will cost $52mil. So figure you may need $500 mill in 30 years to build a comparable facility. $60mill then wont build much

Pops-- why stop with the UST starting five all on the all-conference team? Why not all 15 guys who have scored this season? Throw in a few assistant coaches, fans and gym sweepers, too

yes, obviously the total capacity is increasing from the Shoe, but my northwestern education still tells me that moving the bleachers away from the court means you're going to have a smaller bleacher.    if it's only a foot or so, why even advertise that fact on the website?   it also doesn't appear there will be any baseline bleachers?   it's not so much about the capacity of the place as they only find a way to fill it maybe 2 or 3 times a year, but it moves everybody that much farther away from the action. 

[Pat Coleman]

Seems like a nitpicky point to be arguing about, but then again, par for the course considering the source.

It could be worth advertising the increase in player safety and fan safety, the increased convenience in being able to walk along the sidelines without having to worry as much about someone flying off the court into you or you disrupting the game.

When you have kids you will appreciate this minor touch.

[AO]

Seems like a nitpicky point to be arguing about, but then again, par for the course considering the source.

It could be worth advertising the increase in player safety and fan safety, the increased convenience in being able to walk along the sidelines without having to worry as much about someone flying off the court into you or you disrupting the game.

When you have kids you will appreciate this minor touch.

Nitpicky, sure, but I tried to frame it around some praise for the building.  obviously the alumni have a great commitment to the program.  Macalester's design definitely was more fan friendly, enter from the top and therefore not disturb everyone while you walk across the sideline.  perhaps st. thomas is trying to build their gym to match the way they set up the major tournaments with the media having the courtside seats and the fans being as far away as possible.  take for instance the high school state tourney or ncaa tourney, they block off the first few rows from the fans.

[Drake Palmer]

Mose having more seating in your new digs will be cool but for me one of the reasons I love D3 is the intimate surroundings.

Unless D3 goes stoopid like D1 I love the idea how fans can actually slap hands with players during a game, or friends & family walk out on the court & talk with the teams after the games.

I go back to that game Zorro had against Hamline in St. Paul back when he was  freshman.  Johnson had to get pulled off the court by Kalland because he was talking so much smack with the Hamline fans during the halftime shoot around & when the 2nd half began.

Or how about those annoying guys for Bethel in their clown suits stirring up the fans during the game & riding the opposing team when they went to the FT line to shoot free throws.  Everyone in the gym could hear them saying "dribble, dribble, shoot!" Hilarious.

The Shoe when it's packed is fun & can be madness & I suppose the rest of the season it will be zany, but I've seen plenty of games where it's relatively quiet. Just this year - UW-RF, UW-LAX, GAC.  The 2nd half aganist Bethel a couple of weeks ago reminded me of those vintage 07 Tommie performances against Bethel, & the 2 against St. Johns.  Ear splitting roar.

Now that the old MAC cage has gone bye bye, my favorite local places to see a packed game are Hamline & Bethel.  GAC in their day was the gold standard by which all other schools were measured.  The championship game between GAC & UST in 05 was probably the best D3 environment & game I've seen. Although I was pulling for UST to win that game,  Espenson & the Gusties were incredible! The game made the long ride home tolerable. 
     

[TommieHoops4Life]

UST will not lose to Hamline on its home court on Senior Day. Tommies will win by 20+ after thrashing SJU by 35 on Wednesday. Hamline has to play a perfect game and UST has to play like the Gophers did last night for any upset to be possible.

How bout they start guarding the 3 point line a little?? Every perimeter shot Michigan had was wide open. Hoffarber can't hit the ocean if he's standing on the beach, not a good combination.

[Willy Wonka]

Willy,
I usually agree with you but........
I realize Lonnie Robinson is an outstanding defender and he should make any all-DEFENSIVE squad. As for having a preference on all an all conference selection,  McCoy is obviously my choice between the two. I'm going disregard all stats and say this...If I'm going into a big game and am given the choice of leaving either McCoy or Robinson off the roster for that game, I don't want to give up McCoy. I'd cover Robinson's defense with minutes for Archer or Ervin or go with Halvorsen if I want more offense/size to fill the slot, but I feel there would be much more of a drop off filling in for Al given all he brings to the table.

That seems like a silly point. All that proves is the Tommies are deeper on the wing than they are down on the blocks, which is something we've all been saying all season. The take-a-player off argument is useful for the MVP debate, but I can't prescribe to it for all-conference awards.

It's hard to judge either player without scoring stats — APB for Gene McGivern! — but absolutely everything else points to Robinson being the superior player.

Interesting find by Drake. I'd be curious to see the scoring increase from each of those on the list, however. I'm going to guess McCoy's is the lowest by far at 1.4.

[papahoops]

Ok Willy. I'll concede you that they play different positions and UST is deeper on the perimater, which makes McCoy look more valuable. If you want to look at all conference preference in that way then consider this: List the best post/front court players in MIAC, then list your best wing/perimater players in the MIAC and I think McCoy is closer to the top of his position list. Also, I can't see having a wing all conference player that does not have a consistent outside shot. I understand where you are coming from, I just don't agree. If we all agreed on everything it would be no fun I will concede that the overwhelming strength of UST team is what is even bringing these players into the all conference discussion. Right or wrong, players from good teams (particularly undefeated ones) always get favorable treatment in the award selection process.

[piperinsider]

UST will not lose to Hamline on its home court on Senior Day. Tommies will win by 20+ after thrashing SJU by 35 on Wednesday. Hamline has to play a perfect game and UST has to play like the Gophers did last night for any upset to be possible.

How bout they start guarding the 3 point line a little?? Every perimeter shot Michigan had was wide open. Hoffarber can't hit the ocean if he's standing on the beach, not a good combination.

All we got to say at Hamline and Hewitt is 'Let's PLAY!!'
(Note: UST will win 95-67)

[Drake Palmer]

Interesting find by Drake. I'd be curious to see the scoring increase from each of those on the list, however. I'm going to guess McCoy's is the lowest by far at 1.4.

I got a chance to do a little more digging on the stats I came up with earlier.  All of the other Sixth Man of Year recipients were instant offense, defense or a little of both. From a scoring perspective, the other 6th Man recipients blew it up offensively their senior year with the exception of two players --GAC's Chris TeBrake & UST's Al McCoy.  Although TeBrake & McCoy play different positions, I'd like to think they were/are both trigger-point men for their respective teams.  TeBrake from the PG spot, McCoy from the post position.

Scoring wise, TeBrake averaged 5.1 ppg as a soph, 8.2 as as a senior.  McCoy averaged 6.9ppg as a junior & is currently averaging 8.2ppg during conference play.

Pretty doggone close if you ask me. If TeBrake can make it averaging 8.1 ppg, McCoy sure can. 

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

Willy,
I usually agree with you but........
I realize Lonnie Robinson is an outstanding defender and he should make any all-DEFENSIVE squad. As for having a preference on all an all conference selection,  McCoy is obviously my choice between the two. I'm going disregard all stats and say this...If I'm going into a big game and am given the choice of leaving either McCoy or Robinson off the roster for that game, I don't want to give up McCoy. I'd cover Robinson's defense with minutes for Archer or Ervin or go with Halvorsen if I want more offense/size to fill the slot, but I feel there would be much more of a drop off filling in for Al given all he brings to the table.

That seems like a silly point. All that proves is the Tommies are deeper on the wing than they are down on the blocks, which is something we've all been saying all season. The take-a-player off argument is useful for the MVP debate, but I can't prescribe to it for all-conference awards.

It's hard to judge either player without scoring stats — APB for Gene McGivern! — but absolutely everything else points to Robinson being the superior player.
Interesting find by Drake. I'd be curious to see the scoring increase from each of those on the list, however. I'm going to guess McCoy's is the lowest by far at 1.4.

While I'm not Gene , here's UST seaosn-to-date stats:
http://www.miac-online.org/sports/mbball/mbb08-09/UST.HTM