MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[UMACFAN]

Hamline beats up on Mac behind Hipp and Brown.  Brown had 20 (boxscore says 17 but he had 20) and 5 and a nasty dunk.  Hamline could easily be 5-0 right now.  They are going to be tough to beat.

[ChairmanYao]

I think beat up is a little extreme. Mac took it to the Pipers in the first half and were actually up 28-19 at one point. Hamline took the lead in the second half but even then Mac cut it to 4 on a couple different occasions. The Pipers will have to improve if they are going to make a legit run at the top of the conference. However, I would say a definite playoff team at the moment.

[gacbacker]

You Tube video of Wirtjes' game winning 50 footer:

http://bit.ly/51Ysrs

[Gregory Sager]

but then Wirtjes drilled a hail mary halfcourter

How can a Lutheran school throw a Hail Mary?

[Drake Palmer]

but then Wirtjes drilled a hail mary halfcourter

How can a Lutheran school throw a Hail Mary?

Cmon Greg - this is an ecumenical league. We can throw/shoot whatever we like.  We've got 4 Lutheran schools, 3 Catholics, and 1 Methodist, Baptist, Congregational (Carleton?) & Presbyterian. Besides, Phil Wirtjes could be Catholic for all we know.   

[Gregory Sager]

but then Wirtjes drilled a hail mary halfcourter

How can a Lutheran school throw a Hail Mary?

Cmon Greg - this is an ecumenical league. We can throw/shoot whatever we like.  We've got 4 Lutheran schools, 3 Catholics, and 1 Methodist, Baptist, Congregational (Carleton?) & Presbyterian. Besides, Phil Wirtjes could be Catholic for all we know.   

Martin Luther would throw an inkwell at you for that post, Drake. And I'm not talking about the school in New Ulm.

[huhoops]

I think beat up is a little extreme. Mac took it to the Pipers in the first half and were actually up 28-19 at one point. Hamline took the lead in the second half but even then Mac cut it to 4 on a couple different occasions. The Pipers will have to improve if they are going to make a legit run at the top of the conference. However, I would say a definite playoff team at the moment.

Agreed. Pretty uninspiring 1st half for Hamline. I know they like to wear teams out, but it might serve them better to tighten up the rotation a little. Some of those freshman just are not ready for the MIAC. They seem to all get thrown in at the same time and end up wasting more time digging out of holes than putting teams away (I love Agguire. Schmidt will be good too, even Voigt at times--the rest would benefit greatly from a JV team). St. Olaf will be interesting. Will Fong be playing?

Can't say I'm surprised about Bethel. Chemistry will be an issue until they balance their attack and lose the Madson mentality. Vavra isn't Madson.

Anyone want to give more insight to UST thus far? 9 seems awful close for a "Fongless" Ole squad.

[PurpleReign]

I think the UST situation is very interesting in that 13 different players logged minutes in a faily close game.  Once their best defender gets back from Oregon spells more trouble for the opposing teams best offensive player.  With starter Teddy Archer only playing about 10-15 minutes a game, I wonder if eventually Brady Ervin becomes the starter at that guard position?  So at this point, I think Steve Fritz and staff are looking for the best combinations, getting their sophomores and freshman plenty of playing time and building for long term success.  This team seems to have more size and athletic ability than past Tommie teams, however, they haven't benefited from playng together and so that's why these games have been fairly close.  In my estimation, it's going to take another 5-6 games before things start to gel.

## Player Name            FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF  TP  A TO BLK S MIN
04 Tyler Nicolai.......   *  6-12   3-8    1-4    0  3  3   1  16  0  0  0  2  31
05 Teddy Archer........*  1-2    0-0    0-1    1  1  2   1   2  1  0  0  0  11 *******
12 Joe Scott...........   *  1-6    0-2    7-8    1  3  4   3   9  3  0  0  3  31
30 Anders Halvorsen.... *  4-7    0-2    0-0    1  5  6   1   8  1  0  6  0  24
40 Sam Eicher.......... *  1-4    0-0    2-2    2  3  5   2   4  1  0  0  1  15
10 Peter Leslie........      0-1    0-1    1-2    0  1  1   0   1  1  1  0  0   9
14 Will DeBerg.........     0-0    0-0    0-0    0  0  0   0   0  1  0  0  0   0
20 Alex Healy..........      4-5    1-1    2-2    1  2  3   1  11  2  1  2  0  18
22 Noah Kaiser.........    1-2    0-0    0-0    1  0  1   1   2  2  1  1  0  10
24 John Nance..........    1-3    1-1    0-0    0  1  1   4   3  1  0  0  0   9
34 Josh Peltier........      0-1    0-0    2-2    1  5  6   1   2  0  4  1  0  12
44 Tommy Hannon.......1-4    0-0    0-0    2  1  3   1   2  0  0  0  0   9
52 Josh Pedretti.......    4-6    0-0    2-2    1  0  1   2  10  1  1  0  1  19

[UMACFAN]

I think beat up is a little extreme. Mac took it to the Pipers in the first half and were actually up 28-19 at one point. Hamline took the lead in the second half but even then Mac cut it to 4 on a couple different occasions. The Pipers will have to improve if they are going to make a legit run at the top of the conference. However, I would say a definite playoff team at the moment.

Agreed. Pretty uninspiring 1st half for Hamline. I know they like to wear teams out, but it might serve them better to tighten up the rotation a little. Some of those freshman just are not ready for the MIAC. They seem to all get thrown in at the same time and end up wasting more time digging out of holes than putting teams away (I love Agguire. Schmidt will be good too, even Voigt at times--the rest would benefit greatly from a JV team). St. Olaf will be interesting. Will Fong be playing?

Can't say I'm surprised about Bethel. Chemistry will be an issue until they balance their attack and lose the Madson mentality. Vavra isn't Madson.

Anyone want to give more insight to UST thus far? 9 seems awful close for a "Fongless" Ole squad.

I was not at the game for the first half...but once Ray got hot, they went up 14 points or so and the game seemed out of reach.  Obv Mac made a bit of a game out of it but Hamline was in grips the whole second half.  Brown will be very hard for any team to stop.  He may very well lead the conference in scoring and Hamline has a legit chance to be a top 3 team in the MIAC.  Again, they could easily be 5-0 and knocking in the top 25 poll.

[VOJ]

You Tube video of Wirtjes' game winning 50 footer:

http://bit.ly/51Ysrs

No one guarding the guy inbounding...no one learns from Laettner huh?  Second the kid on Wirtjes really was not on him until about the release of the shot...

Helluva shot though...tough one for the Cobbers who fought back to tie and then went up 4 in the OT with under two minutes to go only to lose. 

Tales of the boxscore in Collegeville...Johnnies and Knights make the same number of shots, difference was the 9 for 29 by the Knights from the beyond the arc and the Js 2 for 15 from same distance...lack of flow for the Js on O and give credit to the Knights they made their first 4 or 5 shots after halftime and survived a charge from the Js when they cut it to 3 but could get no closer...Js on the bye on Monday night extra time for Smitty and the staff to work on O and get ready for Mac...only one more game without Todd Herman.

[bballfan247365]

I think beat up is a little extreme. Mac took it to the Pipers in the first half and were actually up 28-19 at one point. Hamline took the lead in the second half but even then Mac cut it to 4 on a couple different occasions. The Pipers will have to improve if they are going to make a legit run at the top of the conference. However, I would say a definite playoff team at the moment. 

Agreed. Pretty uninspiring 1st half for Hamline. I know they like to wear teams out, but it might serve them better to tighten up the rotation a little. Some of those freshman just are not ready for the MIAC. They seem to all get thrown in at the same time and end up wasting more time digging out of holes than putting teams away (I love Agguire. Schmidt will be good too, even Voigt at times--the rest would benefit greatly from a JV team). St. Olaf will be interesting. Will Fong be playing?

Anyone want to give more insight to UST thus far? 9 seems awful close for a "Fongless" Ole squad.

I think the UST situation is very interesting in that 13 different players logged minutes in a faily close game.   So at this point, I think Steve Fritz and staff are looking for the best combinations, getting their sophomores and freshman plenty of playing time and building for long term success.  This team seems to have more size and athletic ability than past Tommie teams, however, they haven't benefited from playng together and so that's why these games have been fairly close.  In my estimation, it's going to take another 5-6 games before things start to gel. 

I have seen both teams play this week.  So lets look at it from the view of a person who has spent well over two DECADES studying the craft....    At the start of the week - posters had declared the best two recruiting classes in the conference are from St. Thomas and Hamline - which I tend to agree with.  And now we want to know why St. Thomas only wins by 9 and that Hamline needs a JV team...  ARE SERIOUS?  I will let Tubby know that Rodney is not ready  for the Big Ten and he should have a JV team as well.  This is COLLEGE basketball - you get ready in practice and if you don't step up when asked then.....  Pus there is NO correlation between JV success and Varsity success - Varsity Experience is the only TRUE correlation for Varsity Success.....
 
Both teams have a ton of new guys that are trying to find a place (just like 11 other teams in the conference this year).  This has now become a league with "FIERCE" recruiting competition with the new coaches in place.  If you look at the resume of some of these coaches now - winning the conference is nice, but many have had that "National Title Run Taste, which makes winning the conference NICE - but from what I am told - there is nothing like that Final Four or Championship RING. 

In our great state there is a perception that wining the MIAC is the holy grail of Minnesota Basketball.  With this change of Mindset it has elevated the conference on all levels.  (That is why I predict the MIAC gets three teams in the Tourney this year)  As many of us have seen - this has made the "OLDTIMMERS" have to get back to work and recruit after years of just waiting for the athletes to come. 

With that said - Why the difference in expectations or perceptions?  From what I can tell there are 9 "new" guys on each team - so why the double standard?  What makes St. Thomas the team not to win by only 9 and the Vipers to get "they are who we thought they are!" I would hope the MVP player of the year and the best (debated) point guard in the conference would win games and I would hope that 9 seniors and juniors including a 5th year senior would beat 9 freshman and sophomores in crunch time... (Great LOYALTY to your squad PI - I am sure they stopped waiting for your booster check long ago - my guess is you never sent it... )

I KNOW and like BOTH staffs at these schools, as well as many others that patrol the sidelines in the best conference in the nation - So what is it that gives the Tommies the get out of jail free card?  Recent tradition?  More Graduates that are posters?  The Hometown Hero effect?  The fact that Tommies do have SMOKIN' hot girls? (as an alum - I will admit that learning was not the REAL reason I showed) But the Pipes do pound Beavers... per DP!!  If you look at the resumes' I would bet that if you took all the coaches listed on each roster and include playing careers, assistant and head coaching experience the staff at St. Thomas may not be on the top of the National Playoff Game Experience List....   (Breakdown Guys??? 8))

So we can all relax and remember it will take at least another month if not two for EVERY coach in the league to find their "Rotation" - I would also venture a guess that there is NO team that has the same starters in more than two games to this point.  The teams that can pull out wins while they are still searching for the magic ingredients will be in the best position to make the playoffs.  I would also venture to bet that making the playoffs with a Chip, a chair and a chance (per Paul Allen) is the ONLY thing most of the coaches are looking at.  Once the play offs are here - all bets are off...

So to recap - Why the perception difference??  This is going to be a CRAZY year - the Pick-em board winner will need to get their own 900 number after the season and start their own bookie line...   

[bballfan247365]

Forgot one thing...

Concordia @ Gustavus...Call me crazy but I think the Cobbers get to the free throw line more than GAC's 1st conference opponent Carleton, by the 10 minute mark of the 1st half.  Post play will be key with all the beef each team has, bit of an edge to the GAC guards  could be enough along with homecourt advantage to put the Gusties over the top...intersting that the Cobbers are better from long range than the Gusties...will the Gusties be able to hold Fraase in check like the Tommies did or will he dominate Paulson and crew? I think GAC makes a play late to win a tight one at home...

MAD PROPS - VOJ...  Where did you buy your Crystal Ball - Target or Walmart...  I GOTTA get one of those!!!!!!!!!!!!

[piperinsider]

I think beat up is a little extreme. Mac took it to the Pipers in the first half and were actually up 28-19 at one point. Hamline took the lead in the second half but even then Mac cut it to 4 on a couple different occasions. The Pipers will have to improve if they are going to make a legit run at the top of the conference. However, I would say a definite playoff team at the moment. 

Agreed. Pretty uninspiring 1st half for Hamline. I know they like to wear teams out, but it might serve them better to tighten up the rotation a little. Some of those freshman just are not ready for the MIAC. They seem to all get thrown in at the same time and end up wasting more time digging out of holes than putting teams away (I love Agguire. Schmidt will be good too, even Voigt at times--the rest would benefit greatly from a JV team). St. Olaf will be interesting. Will Fong be playing?

Anyone want to give more insight to UST thus far? 9 seems awful close for a "Fongless" Ole squad.

I think the UST situation is very interesting in that 13 different players logged minutes in a faily close game.   So at this point, I think Steve Fritz and staff are looking for the best combinations, getting their sophomores and freshman plenty of playing time and building for long term success.  This team seems to have more size and athletic ability than past Tommie teams, however, they haven't benefited from playng together and so that's why these games have been fairly close.  In my estimation, it's going to take another 5-6 games before things start to gel. 

With that said - Why the difference in expectations or perceptions?  From what I can tell there are 9 "new" guys on each team - so why the double standard?  What makes St. Thomas the team not to win by only 9 and the Vipers to get "they are who we thought they are!" I would hope the MVP player of the year and the best (debated) point guard in the conference would win games and I would hope that 9 seniors and juniors including a 5th year senior would beat 9 freshman and sophomores in crunch time... (Great LOYALTY to your squad PI - I am sure they stopped waiting for your booster check long ago - my guess is you never sent it... )

This aggression toward PI will not stand, man.

To be quite Frank (although I doubt your name is Frank), I have seen one Viper game in the past few years and that was because I was covering the women's tilt before/afterward since a player from Hutch (Bri Monahan) was going to break the Gusties scoring record. I just don't have time to make the trek to St. Paul very often these days. And really, what reason has their been over the years? It's a mediocre program top to bottom (excluding men's cross country, baseball and possibly men's hockey now).

Every year it's we got this exciting recruiting class or blah, blah, blah.....we hang our hats on what. One playoff win at St. John's (which I did attend despite the lengthy 90 minute drive on a Wednesday night). So sorry if poke fun at a team that blew a 10-point lead in the second half. Maybe I'll Denny's advice and you can find me on the high road.

[Drake Palmer]

Alright a few comments regarding yesterday's games:

SJU-CARL
The interest level in the board doesn't really start to get really hot until after the holidays but that was a nice proactive post VOJ.  Scare away any circling vultures from a very puzzling loss to Carleton, & the less than stellar win over Bethel earlier in the week.

BET-SMU
And we see what happened to Bethel yesterday.  Seriously – dang?  Nice win SMU, but would someone else take the lead on this story lest I be accused of unfairly ripping on Bethel.   But before I leave this, BET34 or HarryDH - what's the story with Nate Robertson & Taylor Hall?

GAC-CORD
GAC making a case for itself. Winning ugly, but still winning.  They'll have a good test with games against SMU & Augsburg this week. Contender or pretender?

HAM-MAC
Would a couple of the Piper posters cool it on the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" 5-0 routine?  You've played 5 home games. Let's see what happens when you go on the road this week. The majority of posters would say this Hamline team has really improved. They'll get plenty of chances to show just how much improvement or not has taken place.  The Oles could be tough, Cobbs on the road is always a challenge, & that's a tough tourney they're entered in over the holiday break in California.  Potential matchup against a top ten club in Wheaton. Finish the first turn of the season schedule with a 4-0, or even 3-1 record in the 4 remaining games, & other people will really start to take note.

UST-OLAF
A couple of comments.  One, the score was not really indicative of how the game was played.  Games against St. Olaf are rarely pretty as they play a bump, grind style of ball. 

Two, I'm a MIAC guy & want our league representatives to do well when they venture out of conference play or in the post season.  So whichever team/s represents the league they have my support. Since UST has been the standard bearer the last couple of years & I know a few of the current & former players, I followed them a little more closely than other teams.  What I've seen so far this year from UST has me mildly concerned.  The concerns can be resolved but troubling nonetheless.

[PurpleReign]

Two, I'm a MIAC guy & want our league representatives to do well when they venture out of conference play or in the post season.  So whichever team/s represents the league they have my support. Since UST has been the standard bearer the last couple of years & I know a few of the current & former players, I followed them a little more closely than other teams.  What I've seen so far this year from UST has me mildly concerned.  The concerns can be resolved but troubling nonetheless.

What has me bothered about this UST team, is, well I haven't figured that out yet, but something is missing or a certian aspect of their game has yet to develop.  While reviewing the game statistics, I have noticed that UST vs. Opponent team rebounds and team turnovers are very close.  I also wonder if this team is experiencing a bit of "Nomad" effect?  In all reality, they really don't have any home games this year and could have any early effect.