MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Willy Wonka]

All the earlly talk about MVP is interesting. While I will agre that Burtzel is putting up some solid numbers, let's hold off annointing him till he's battled thru the top tier teams (Augs, GAC, UST).  His numbers at this point are slighlty better than those of Fraase, who has tangled with those 3 teams. Not a knock on Burtzel, whose play I simply love (anybody who would have gone to old St. Boniface High if it were still open is good in my book), but a caveat that his toughest games are still ahead of him.

Fraase's stats are solid, and worthy of consideration, too, at this point. Hurting him is Cord's record.  Torrel has been sizzling offensively and is a key reason for the Ole's success to date, but unless they contend for the top 4 spots, I dont see him as MVP (Player of the Year maybe).

One name that has not been thrown out for MVP that should be talked about is Cassens. His individual stats do not blow you away, but if you watch the Augs, you see that he is the man they look to on the floor for leadership and inspiration. When push comes to shove, he is the one who leads them. Monday, when Cord pulled close, Cassens promptly dropped in 3 LONG threes and dished out a few clutch assists. Result? A 12-0 run that broke Cord's spirirt and effectively wrapped up the game.

At this point, Id say the leading candidates (in no particular order) for MVP are Burtzel, Cassens and Fraase. A second tier consisting of Wright, Torrel, Nicolai, Dave Olson and Hipp, all of whom could easily move up into the MVP race.

All of what you say is true, but I don't have to be as diplomatic as the resident sage with my assessments. Burtzel literally doesn't have a single thing you can point to as a weakness through the early stages of the conference season. He shoots well, passes effectively, scores and boards with the best, and is on a team in title contention. Everyone else you've mentioned as candidates has MAJOR holes in their resume.

I've been the biggest Fraase booster on the board for awhile now, but he's a big shooting 40% from the floor on an average team. Torrel seems to be a one-dimensional scorer on a losing team, knock on wood. Nicolai is basically Ben Gordon — an effective gunner who doesn't pass or defend very well (the UST site lists the women's stats on the men's page right now or I'd point to his low assist numbers as proof...cmon Mean Gene! ). Hipp and/or Brown's contention will be dictated solely by their team's success; until then, they're just Zach Randolph-type numbers guys who are "doomed" to have careers similar to papahoops' kid.

Cassens, to me, has the most compelling case thus far outside of Burtzel, and perhaps more staying power. He's been super productive and efficient in league play, even hitting 59% of his treys. That's Tim Brown level. If he can get the Auggies to push for the conference crown, I like his chances — that's where the OT loss at home to the Gusties gets factored in. His current numbers are slightly worse than 2001-02 MVP Mark Buri and likely MVP runner-up Scott "Dirty Chin" Christensen in 2002-03, the last times a PG had a legit shot at the award.

[VOJ]

All the earlly talk about MVP is interesting. While I will agre that Burtzel is putting up some solid numbers, let's hold off annointing him till he's battled thru the top tier teams (Augs, GAC, UST).  His numbers at this point are slighlty better than those of Fraase, who has tangled with those 3 teams. Not a knock on Burtzel, whose play I simply love (anybody who would have gone to old St. Boniface High if it were still open is good in my book), but a caveat that his toughest games are still ahead of him.

Fraase's stats are solid, and worthy of consideration, too, at this point. Hurting him is Cord's record.  Torrel has been sizzling offensively and is a key reason for the Ole's success to date, but unless they contend for the top 4 spots, I dont see him as MVP (Player of the Year maybe).

One name that has not been thrown out for MVP that should be talked about is Cassens. His individual stats do not blow you away, but if you watch the Augs, you see that he is the man they look to on the floor for leadership and inspiration. When push comes to shove, he is the one who leads them. Monday, when Cord pulled close, Cassens promptly dropped in 3 LONG threes and dished out a few clutch assists. Result? A 12-0 run that broke Cord's spirirt and effectively wrapped up the game.

At this point, Id say the leading candidates (in no particular order) for MVP are Burtzel, Cassens and Fraase. A second tier consisting of Wright, Torrel, Nicolai, Dave Olson and Hipp, all of whom could easily move up into the MVP race.

Hard to believe and it might be a sign the end is near but Maniac and I agree on something...Cassens or Olson, depending on how you look at things should be mentioned in the debate for MVP of the league...in doing my prep for tonight's game both are outstanding shooters and Cassens is number one in assists, they are 1-2 in assist to turnover ratio...

Johnnies will have their hands full tonight with these two, no students so plenty of good seats available for the game of the night.  Auggy creates matchup problems because of their lack of size, they start one guy over 6'2" and their quickness will be tough to contend with...they are also the top team in assists and one of the best in coming up with steals.

WW...Burtzel is for real, he almost single-handedly took out GAC in the playoffs last year and you would like the way he plays.

[Drake Palmer]

With St. Johns' endowment & wealthy alumni you would think they could add webcast. If it wasn't for work, the drive & the cold, I would consider making the trek up to C-ville. This is easily the game of the night.

Don't sleep on the Dawgs' Ben Flavin or Brett Sorenson either.  Sorenson, Cory Polta, & Andy Grzesiak-Grimm (AGG) will all take turns guarding Burtzel, who is equally effective working in the lane, or dishing off the assist.

What makes Augsburg so effective is they have so many guys who can hit from the outside, Cassens, Flavin, Sorenson, Olson, Quammen, Eastman etc.  When teams try to deny the jumper, they can turn it up, start moving the ball by the dribble or pass, & hit cutters on the overplay. Or, go to SO Cory Polta on the block. It seems Polta has (temporarily?) displaced AGG in the starting lineup.

SJU & AUGS are ranked #s 1 and #2 in the league in with 17.4 & 15.6APG respectively.  In the assist turnover category Augsburg is #1 at 1.50 & SJU at 1.43.

The Johnnies cupboard isn't bare either as they've quietly amassed some nice offensive weapons - Andy Burns, Burtzel, Sam Blank, Todd Herman, Andy Latzke, & the ever streaky Chris Schwartz.  Until the arrival of Ray Brown, IMO Herman was the best big wing in terms of being able to attack the basket or hit the J. Burtzel & Aaron Barmore seem to be their most effective defenders & can defend against a number of different positions.

The game should be dandy.

Edit:  P. S.  Unless one of the teams absolutely goes off from the wing, Augsburg's ability to stop Herman & Burtzel on the inside will be critical, & conversely the Jays need to get those 2 untracked. Last month the Gusties' Seth Anderson really took it to the Dawgs on a variety of pull up jumpers, & quick hitters in the lane. Those are 2 areas where Herman & Burtzel really excel.

[AO]

With St. Johns' endowment & wealthy alumni you would think they could add webcast. If it wasn't for work, the drive & the cold, I would consider making the trek up to C-ville. This is easily the game of the night.

Perhaps WBHR owns the right to broadcast, and thus a student run video webcast wouldn't be allowed?

[Nites]

Nicolai is basically Ben Gordon — an effective gunner who doesn't pass or defend very well (the UST site lists the women's stats on the men's page right now or I'd point to his low assist numbers as proof...cmon Mean Gene! ).

Nicolai has 13 assists in 9 games, including 7 in 4 conference games (and he's a point guard??).  Compare/contrast to Van Sickle (not a point guard) who has 16 assists in 9 games, including 11 in 5 conference contests.  However, the best Ben Gordon impersonation may be Gunner Grey of the Gusties who has managed to assist on only 5 baskets in 9 games, albeit in 10 minutes a game less playing time than the aforementioned Nicolai.

[Drake Palmer]

Nicolai is basically Ben Gordon — an effective gunner who doesn't pass or defend very well (the UST site lists the women's stats on the men's page right now or I'd point to his low assist numbers as proof...cmon Mean Gene! ).

Nicolai has 13 assists in 9 games, including 7 in 4 conference games (and he's a point guard??).  Compare/contrast to Van Sickle (not a point guard) who has 16 assists in 9 games, including 11 in 5 conference contests.  However, the best Ben Gordon impersonation may be Gunner Grey of the Gusties who has managed to assist on only 5 baskets in 9 games, albeit in 10 minutes a game less playing time than the aforementioned Nicolai.

Nites, Nites, Nites, How many times do we have to discuss this...Nicolai is a scoring PG.    Plus, it doesn't help when your backcourt mate has not been the model of consistency this season. But no doubt about it, Mr. Nicolai is going to get his.  

Tyler Grey's role is designated instant offense for the Gusties. At some point Willy is gonna have to examine Mr Grey's limitations in other aspects of the game.

But in terms of PG output, perhaps a better comparison would be GAC's Dan Schmidknecht & Seth Anderson.  Schmidknecht is the designated table setting PG as he leads the Gusties, & ranks as one of the conference leaders in assists, averaging 3.8apg & 4.8 ppg. Seth Anderson is the designated scoring PG as he averages 1.2 apg & 6.8 ppg.  

[Nites]

Nites, Nites, Nites, How many times do we have to discuss this...Nicolai is a scoring PG.    Plus, it doesn't help when your backcourt mate has not been the model of consistency this season. But no doubt about it, Mr. Nicolai is going to get his.  

My apologies Sir Drake.  Tis still perplexing to say the least.  If am a point guard of the shoot first and pass only if my wrist is sore variety who plays 26 minutes a game for a high scoring team and who is responsible for bringing the ball up the court, wouldn't one logically assume that I might at least, on average, accidently toss the ball to a teammate who scores a basket more than 1.44 times a game?

[papahoops]

All the earlly talk about MVP is interesting. While I will agre that Burtzel is putting up some solid numbers, let's hold off annointing him till he's battled thru the top tier teams (Augs, GAC, UST).  His numbers at this point are slighlty better than those of Fraase, who has tangled with those 3 teams. Not a knock on Burtzel, whose play I simply love (anybody who would have gone to old St. Boniface High if it were still open is good in my book), but a caveat that his toughest games are still ahead of him.

Fraase's stats are solid, and worthy of consideration, too, at this point. Hurting him is Cord's record.  Torrel has been sizzling offensively and is a key reason for the Ole's success to date, but unless they contend for the top 4 spots, I dont see him as MVP (Player of the Year maybe).

One name that has not been thrown out for MVP that should be talked about is Cassens. His individual stats do not blow you away, but if you watch the Augs, you see that he is the man they look to on the floor for leadership and inspiration. When push comes to shove, he is the one who leads them. Monday, when Cord pulled close, Cassens promptly dropped in 3 LONG threes and dished out a few clutch assists. Result? A 12-0 run that broke Cord's spirirt and effectively wrapped up the game.

At this point, Id say the leading candidates (in no particular order) for MVP are Burtzel, Cassens and Fraase. A second tier consisting of Wright, Torrel, Nicolai, Dave Olson and Hipp, all of whom could easily move up into the MVP race.

All of what you say is true, but I don't have to be as diplomatic as the resident sage with my assessments. Burtzel literally doesn't have a single thing you can point to as a weakness through the early stages of the conference season. He shoots well, passes effectively, scores and boards with the best, and is on a team in title contention. Everyone else you've mentioned as candidates has MAJOR holes in their resume.

I've been the biggest Fraase booster on the board for awhile now, but he's a big shooting 40% from the floor on an average team. Torrel seems to be a one-dimensional scorer on a losing team, knock on wood. Nicolai is basically Ben Gordon — an effective gunner who doesn't pass or defend very well (the UST site lists the women's stats on the men's page right now or I'd point to his low assist numbers as proof...cmon Mean Gene! ). Hipp and/or Brown's contention will be dictated solely by their team's success; until then, they're just Zach Randolph-type numbers guys who are "doomed" to have careers similar to papahoops' kid.

Cassens, to me, has the most compelling case thus far outside of Burtzel, and perhaps more staying power. He's been super productive and efficient in league play, even hitting 59% of his treys. That's Tim Brown level. If he can get the Auggies to push for the conference crown, I like his chances — that's where the OT loss at home to the Gusties gets factored in. His current numbers are slightly worse than 2001-02 MVP Mark Buri and likely MVP runner-up Scott "Dirty Chin" Christensen in 2002-03, the last times a PG had a legit shot at the award.

WW
Maybe it is just me, but if I knew someone on the board had a relative who had played in the MIAC, I wouldn't go out of my way to take shots at him regarding a "doomed" college career (which by the way resulted in an economics degree from Macalester College). I felt it best to stay off the board during the season throughout my son's career, as it would not have been appropriate. It is still not appropriate for me to comment on or defend his basketball career/accomplishments in a public forum and I will not do so. That being said, however, your ongoing Zach Randolph references are really beginning to piss me off.   If your goal was to get under my skin, you have accomplished it.

[Buddo]

Barely any MVP talk for Will Wright? Whaaaaaat

[Drake Palmer]

Interesting several posts. As someone just reminded me  -

How good do you think Macalester would have been if Tom Conboy had Doug Espenson, Tim Brown, Chris and Adam TeBrake, Phil Sowden, Trevor Wittwer as teammates and Mark Hanson as coach?    

[papahoops]

I have one leg up on the Piper bandwagon and am about to climb on board. Hamline up 38-17 on SMU with 3:29 left in the 1st half. Brown/Hip combo outscoring entire SMU team 21-17. Brown just threw a nasty full court pass off a rbound to hi teammate in full stride for a layup. If this keeps up, the Piper posters will be coming out of the woodwork

[Buddo]

I have one leg up on the Piper bandwagon and am about to climb on board. Hamline up 38-17 on SMU with 3:29 left in the 1st half. Brown/Hip combo outscoring entire SMU team 21-17. Brown just threw a nasty full court pass off a rbound to hi teammate in full stride for a layup. If this keeps up, the Piper posters will be coming out of the woodwork

Nice. Please keep the Hamline updates coming, their live video stream isn't working for me (does it work for anyone else?).

[papahoops]

My Hamline webcast also went dead right after I gave my update, so there must have been a problem.

Oles go from doing nothing wrong, being up 14 early in second half to now being 10 with 3 min to go

SJU up 11 on the Auggies with a little over a minute to go. Looks like Cassens is having a tough night.

[papahoops]

I have one leg up on the Piper bandwagon and am about to climb on board. Hamline up 38-17 on SMU with 3:29 left in the 1st half. Brown/Hip combo outscoring entire SMU team 21-17. Brown just threw a nasty full court pass off a rbound to hi teammate in full stride for a layup. If this keeps up, the Piper posters will be coming out of the woodwork

I just saw the final on the MIAC web site 93-57 Pipers over SMU. Now that is what I call a butt kicking. I am now fully on board the Piper bandwagon. Could be an interesting contest shaping up in St. Peter later this week

[miacsuperfan]

it's been a good news, bad news night in the miac.   

good news: GAC makes a great comeback vs. STO, as koz's oles struggle late in the game while playing with their collective hands around their throats.
bad news:  GAC's announcer says ". . . for THREEEEEEEEEEEEEE..." about 7 too many times.   

good news: SJ's announcer's dulcet tones make for easy listening as johnnies dump an undermanned team of dawgs. 
bad news:  SJ's announcer's mike is too close to jim smith's classless yelling at officials through much of the contest.   

good news: BU plays UST tough, losing by 11 points at ganglehoff.
bad news: UST has the worst website, audio and video streaming in the miac--so nobody really knew what was going on.   

bad news:  weather prevented me from making it to the hu vs. smu blowout tonite.
good news: weather prevented me from making it to the hu vs. smu blowout tonite.