MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[MiacLostProphet]

Rollin' rollin' rollin' keep the Pipers rollin'

papahoops, we piper posters are still around, i just haven't seen a game in awhile and haven't had much to say.  

Hipp and Brown are Doomed???  Brown is one and done from what i know, and that doesn't really count as a career.  Hipp isn't doomed, this team will either make the playoffs or be right there until the last game of the season, and if the MIAC doesn't just hand out an MVP to a player on the best team, Hipp has a great shot at being an MVP.  He's already the best center in the league.  Although Burtzel is a BEAST, he's top 15 in almost every statistic: scoring, rebounding, tops in assists, steals, the kid just does it all.  If he keeps it up, it might be the best all-around season i've ever seen/read about on paper.

[Gacman]

HUHOOPS

I like your breakdown of Hipp and his post play against the gusties the past few years. Hipp individually has any edge in the post, but who else do the Pipers have for size? GAC has three quality posts to throw at HAM's one.

The real match-up or none match-up however you want to look at is Brown. The gusties have noone who matches up with him. It will take a collective team effort to slow him down and I emphasize the slow him down part because you won't shut him down. He is too good and athletic for that to happen. I agree with WW that it will just be straight man to man and nothing else. It will take the defender a pass away shrinking the driving lane that determines how successful the gusties are at slowing him down.

One other thing I would like to point out about Hamline's penetrate and dish offense and how affective it's been in the past. At least comparing this year's team to last year's, GAC is more athletic now than it was. Both Schmidtknect and Wirtjes are upgrades defensively from the two people they replaced and then you add Anderson who is the team's best on the ball defender and Michel who is long quick and athletic to matchup on the perimeter and you have a gustie team much better suited for handling that type of matchup. I'm not saying the gustie D is lights out, just improved from last year.

[papahoops]

I have seen Hamline play a few of their recent games after they seem to get things figured out and my esposure to Gustavus is limited to viewing the second half of the win over the Oles last night. I must have been good luck for the Gusties, as the Oles went from doing nothing wrong to doing nothing right after I started watching the webcast. The game at St. Peter Saturday is a very interesting matchup. It will pit Hamline's athleticism and quickness versus the disciplined balanced team approach  that has brought Hanson success. I would make Gustavus the favorite based on playing at home, but Hamline certainly could create matchup problems (particularly with Brown) that could result in stealing a road win.
I think a key for both teams is how many minutes Hipp plays. Brown is hard for Hanson to bottle up because he plays on the perimeter and passes well.  Hipp , however , could be a different story since it will be easier to double him up inside. I think Hanson will have the Gustie's front court play aggressive with Hipp and try and "trade fouls" to get Hipp off the floor, since I suspect the Gusties have more front court depth. If they are successful it will help the Gustie cause. If Hipp can stay on the floor and avoid foul trouble, he has a matchup advantage over his Gustie competitors which could tilt things Hamline's way.
All in all, should be a great matchup. Although I like the Hamline squad, a Gustie victory would pave the way to a titan battle of the undefeateds next week between Gustavus and UST. A blizzard is the only thing that would keep me from that looming battle next Wednesday.

[piperinsider]

Another guy the Gusties will have to deal with:
Dan Andersen - 8 of his last 9 from threes in the past three wins - if he only played more than 14 minutes per game

Andersen has been producing the past few games like the HU faithfuls thought he would coming into the season. Doesn't look like he's in peak condition yet (maybe the reason for limited minutes) but my god can he shoot. Between the 12 minute mark and the 6 minute mark in the 2nd half last night, he hit 3 treys. In early losses the HU shooters were struggling to connect which made the whole team much easier to defend. Packing it in really isn't a great option anymore, as open 3's have become a high percentage shot for HU.

By his lack of conditioning, you mean the two cups of water and a towel handed to him by a trainer every time he exits after playing four minutes. Yeah, I noticed that last Saturday. Hopefully by the end of the season we have him up to 5-6 minutes at a time.

[John Galt]

I"m thinkin.....

1. UST
2. Hamline (thats right...)
3. St. John
4. Augsburg
5. Bethel
6. Gustavus
7. Carleton
8. St. Marys
9. Concordia
10. St. Olaf
11. Macalester

Proudly and quietly waiting for the rest of you to acknowledge what we knew late October....That's Right !!

[Willy Wonka]

I"m thinkin.....

1. UST
2. Hamline (thats right...)
3. St. John
4. Augsburg
5. Bethel
6. Gustavus
7. Carleton
8. St. Marys
9. Concordia
10. St. Olaf
11. Macalester

Proudly and quietly waiting for the rest of you to acknowledge what we knew late October....That's Right !!

What exactly are we supposed to acknowledge? The fact that Hamline is currently tied for fourth in the league and its four conference wins have come against teams who are a combined 5-20 in league play? Or the fact that the Pipes have played just one of the top four teams so far...and lost that game by 13? Or the fact that the three MIAC teams Hamline lost to by a combined 25 points, my Gusties have defeated by a combined 21 points?

We might as well just crown them now, right?

The Wheaton win is nice and all...but we've all been teased by enigmatic potential before. The 2000-01 Doggies who started 8-2 before completely falling apart to finish 11-9 come to mind as a prime example. I guess what I'm trying to say is...show me something Saturday and maybe I'll bow down like the rest of the board have already done. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict I won't have to worry about that.

Oh, and feel free to check this out if you aren't convinced of Hamline's proper place in this fight. I know PI still has nightmares of this one.

And please ignore the chump who almost ruined the game by shooting 1-6 

http://gustavus.edu/athletics/mbb/archives/2001-02/mbbstats/HAM2.HTM

[VOJ]

Wow. I disappear for less than 24 hours and things really start to pick up!

VOJ - If by "making paint peel" you mean calmly writing things on the dry erase board while making his plans for improvement, I agree. I literally can't think of a single time Hanson yelled at my team's during a halftime talk...even when we were down 20ish at Carleton my junior year before we made our run. He did once bench the entire starting unit my sophomore year at Concordia, but I don't think his decibel level really changed. That 40-11 spanking is impressive...did Koz get any techs during that stretch?

I can also promise Hanson's never been caught riding the refs like your boy apparently was last night

But you know what I really love? When I spit fire and others start to pick up on it. Good form, Nites

For the record, there's literally zero chance GAC comes out in a triangle-and-two on Saturday. Hamline may somehow steal the victory, but they'll do it against a conventional defense. You can take that to the bank.

WW...yea I know Coach Hanson is soft spoken, in fact I have never seen him get that upset on the sidelines ever, but I have to think the fellas were a little more focused coming out of that locker room after the chalk talk...

Let me explain what happened with Smitty in the J's game vs Augsburg...the game was reffed very inconsistent...Tom Gillund, Brad Panning and Dave Firkus worked the game and I don't think they called a handcheck all game, and some drives resulting in contact were fouls, some were not...well a couple of times our players hit the deck on drives while or after releasing the ball and the coaches got upset about it, but I think the incident superfan is alluding to involves the request for a timeout.  Smitty wanted one after the Js were at the line and if the second free throw was made, well he tried to call it, but Panning who was by the Johnnies bench during the FT, started to run up the court while the ball was in the air, well he never heard Smitty ask for it...so after Auggy scored Smitty again yelled for a timeout but there was alot of noise being made by the Augsburg fans and he had to yell about 3X for a timeout which he finally got.  

Here is the thing about Smitty...he is still working hard and looks 15 years younger than he actually is and still has the fire, I like to see it, the kids love it and it works.  Plus sometimes the comments he makes to the officials are fantastic color you can't get normally.

I"m thinkin.....

1. UST
2. Hamline (thats right...)
3. St. John
4. Augsburg
5. Bethel
6. Gustavus
7. Carleton
8. St. Marys
9. Concordia
10. St. Olaf
11. Macalester

Proudly and quietly waiting for the rest of you to acknowledge what we knew late October....That's Right !!

Wow...if this is how you see it going, I think you are sadly mistaken, not that the Pipers can't make the climb, they can, but as WW stated their body of work is not built against the top teams.  I am not sure Bethel can turn it around with the injuries they have suffered, although I think the schedule in their second run through the league helps more than it hurts...GAC will NOT be 6th, they seem to have the look of a top 4 team...Concordia is the enigma right now, they can get in a groove and bust a move up, or they could be that fringe team in the 5-8 range in the conference.  You might have nailed where Auggy will finish, but they need more consistency than they have gotten recently.

[Gacman]

I"m thinkin.....

1. UST
2. Hamline (thats right...)
3. St. John
4. Augsburg
5. Bethel
6. Gustavus
7. Carleton
8. St. Marys
9. Concordia
10. St. Olaf
11. Macalester

Proudly and quietly waiting for the rest of you to acknowledge what we knew late October....That's Right !!

Everyone on this board has some bias to a school in the MIAC however slight or strong it might be, but all of us despite our bias have to take our medicine once in awhile. This is one of those times you might need to take yours. As both WW and VOJ have pointed out, let's wait and see how things start to shake out a little bit before you immediately crown your Pipers. I'm not saying that can't finish their, but it is clear that your bias is clouding your judgement in how far you have GAC and CON dropping in the standings. With games for your team still against UST, GAC, SJU that could be a potential 3 losses in a row for your team, which would drop you to 4-6. If this is the case, you would have to basically run the table during the next round to finish second, so let's just wait and see.

[miacsuperfan]

 

Let me explain what happened with Smitty in the J's game vs Augsburg...the game was reffed very inconsistent...Tom Gillund, Brad Panning and Dave Firkus worked the game and I don't think they called a handcheck all game, and some drives resulting in contact were fouls, some were not...well a couple of times our players hit the deck on drives while or after releasing the ball and the coaches got upset about it, but I think the incident superfan is alluding to involves the request for a timeout.  Smitty wanted one after the Js were at the line and if the second free throw was made, well he tried to call it, but Panning who was by the Johnnies bench during the FT, started to run up the court while the ball was in the air, well he never heard Smitty ask for it...so after Auggy scored Smitty again yelled for a timeout but there was alot of noise being made by the Augsburg fans and he had to yell about 3X for a timeout which he finally got. 

Here is the thing about Smitty...he is still working hard and looks 15 years younger than he actually is and still has the fire, I like to see it, the kids love it and it works.  Plus sometimes the comments he makes to the officials are fantastic color you can't get normally.

actually, voj, there were several little outbursts.  but consider smith forgiven for his radio gaffes.  in light of the above mentioned (and highlighted), his loud retorts are now understandable.   seriously.  i am always amazed at the restraint shown by miac coaches when he is working their games, (no offense to gillund and firkus who try to do a good job.)

drake palmer, thanks for your insights on the ust 'missing ingredients.'  you had a fairly lengthy list, and i am guessing pretty much right on.  but i think you left something off-----lonnie robinson.   am i right?   

[AO]

Oh, and feel free to check this out if you aren't convinced of Hamline's proper place in this fight. I know PI still has nightmares of this one.

And please ignore the chump who almost ruined the game by shooting 1-6  

http://gustavus.edu/athletics/mbb/archives/2001-02/mbbstats/HAM2.HTM

3 steals, 2 assists and no turnovers in 11 min- Hanson ought to let you go 1-11 from the field.
That Hamline team has to rank up there with the recent MAC teams as the worst in conference history.  I looked up the schedule from that year and Gustavus wasn't the only one who came into Hutton and ran it up: Martin Luther 91 - Hamline 46.  I'm starting to understand why the hamline faithful are excited about having 4 MIAC wins over the bottom half of the league.

[huhoops]

Everyone on this board has some bias to a school in the MIAC however slight or strong it might be, but all of us despite our bias have to take our medicine once in awhile. This is one of those times you might need to take yours. As both WW and VOJ have pointed out, let's wait and see how things start to shake out a little bit before you immediately crown your Pipers. I'm not saying that can't finish their, but it is clear that your bias is clouding your judgement in how far you have GAC and CON dropping in the standings. With games for your team still against UST, GAC, SJU that could be a potential 3 losses in a row for your team, which would drop you to 4-6. If this is the case, you would have to basically run the table during the next round to finish second, so let's just wait and see.

If we're not crowning HU (which I am totally in line with) then let's not jump the gun on GAC either. They have yet to play the top other 3 teams in the conference right now (SJU, UST, HU) and needed a miracle to beat the 5th best (CON). They have played 2 worthy non-conference Division 3 opponents--going 1-1 with a loss at home to UW-La Crosse (69-76) and won a 2 point squeeker to Buena Vista (who HU beat by 23 and scored 107 against). They have played 3 different Division 2 opponents and have not impressed (averaging a 14.67 point loss to the three of them). They had to come back from down 16 to STO and gave up a 23 point half time lead to SMU, only to get bailed out by an open missed three by Holland at the buzzer. So, that leaves them with one strong win which came against AUG in overtime on Dec. 9, in Minneapolis.

**I didn't see the HU/Wheaton game, but I am going to make a bold assumption and say that Wheaton would be a bigger challenge for HU or GAC than AUG would be/is. The recent Wheaton win for HU (arguably HU's only "really good win") is more prominent IMO than GAC's only "really good win" against AUG **

- The BV game could be noted as a good win for GAC as well (especially since they were in Storm Lake), but I left it out because the BV win for GAC is really comparable to the Cal Lutheran win for HU (away game, no fans, etc.)

**Hard to call the GAC/UST game a clash of the titans when 2 games ago, GAC was down 29 points to Hawaii-Hilo (NCAA D2), before they took the dogs off and UST just beat Concordia St. Paul (Also NCAA D2).**

I want to restate that I do not think HU deserves more credit than 4th or 5th best in the MIAC (right now) but if we are being critical...well, let's be critical.

[bballfan247365]

Oh, and feel free to check this out if you aren't convinced of Hamline's proper place in this fight. I know PI still has nightmares of this one.

And please ignore the chump who almost ruined the game by shooting 1-6  

http://gustavus.edu/athletics/mbb/archives/2001-02/mbbstats/HAM2.HTM

3 steals, 2 assists and no turnovers in 11 min- Hanson ought to let you go 1-11 from the field.
That Hamline team has to rank up there with the recent MAC teams as the worst in conference history.  I looked up the schedule from that year and Gustavus wasn't the only one who came into Hutton and ran it up: Martin Luther 91 - Hamline 46.  I'm starting to understand why the hamline faithful are excited about having 4 MIAC wins over the bottom half of the league.

Just gonna add 1/2 cent since my 2 cents gets me blasted..  Considering the stellar HU past and still playing a SOLID non-conference schedule (even though a couple of teams may be having a down year than in the past) you have to give Coach Whitmore, Coach Hopkins and Coach Rusthoven thier due for all the stuff that goes into Hamline having 8 wins before the halfway point of the conference season.   That is only 7 years ago that they were getting DRILLED by the likes of Martin Luther...

Now I'll duck and cover....

[Gacman]

Everyone on this board has some bias to a school in the MIAC however slight or strong it might be, but all of us despite our bias have to take our medicine once in awhile. This is one of those times you might need to take yours. As both WW and VOJ have pointed out, let's wait and see how things start to shake out a little bit before you immediately crown your Pipers. I'm not saying that can't finish their, but it is clear that your bias is clouding your judgement in how far you have GAC and CON dropping in the standings. With games for your team still against UST, GAC, SJU that could be a potential 3 losses in a row for your team, which would drop you to 4-6. If this is the case, you would have to basically run the table during the next round to finish second, so let's just wait and see.

If we're not crowning HU (which I am totally in line with) then let's not jump the gun on GAC either. They have yet to play the top other 3 teams in the conference right now (SJU, UST, HU) and needed a miracle to beat the 5th best (CON). They have played 2 worthy non-conference Division 3 opponents--going 1-1 with a loss at home to UW-La Crosse (69-76) and won a 2 point squeeker to Buena Vista (who HU beat by 23 and scored 107 against). They have played 3 different Division 2 opponents and have not impressed (averaging a 14.67 point loss to the three of them). They had to come back from down 16 to STO and gave up a 23 point half time lead to SMU, only to get bailed out by an open missed three by Holland at the buzzer. So, that leaves them with one strong win which came against AUG in overtime on Dec. 9, in Minneapolis.

**I didn't see the HU/Wheaton game, but I am going to make a bold assumption and say that Wheaton would be a bigger challenge for HU or GAC than AUG would be/is. The recent Wheaton win for HU (arguably HU's only "really good win") is more prominent IMO than GAC's only "really good win" against AUG **

- The BV game could be noted as a good win for GAC as well (especially since they were in Storm Lake), but I left it out because the BV win for GAC is really comparable to the Cal Lutheran win for HU (away game, no fans, etc.)

**Hard to call the GAC/UST game a clash of the titans when 2 games ago, GAC was down 29 points to Hawaii-Hilo (NCAA D2), before they took the dogs off and UST just beat Concordia St. Paul (Also NCAA D2).**

I want to restate that I do not think HU deserves more credit than 4th or 5th best in the MIAC (right now) but if we are being critical...well, let's be critical.

You are correct, we shouldn't crown GAC at the 2 yet, which I never did. I actually never mentioned anything on where they would finish except that it wouldn't be 6th, but they have beaten two teams that Hamline has already lost to in AUG and CON. Also, pointing out how GAC barely won a few games doesn't take away from the fact that a win is a win and GAC has don't it better than HAM so far this year in conference play. With that said, I think it will be a really good game on saturday. One I'm definitely excited for.

[VOJ]

Oh, and feel free to check this out if you aren't convinced of Hamline's proper place in this fight. I know PI still has nightmares of this one.

And please ignore the chump who almost ruined the game by shooting 1-6  

http://gustavus.edu/athletics/mbb/archives/2001-02/mbbstats/HAM2.HTM

3 steals, 2 assists and no turnovers in 11 min- Hanson ought to let you go 1-11 from the field.
That Hamline team has to rank up there with the recent MAC teams as the worst in conference history.  I looked up the schedule from that year and Gustavus wasn't the only one who came into Hutton and ran it up: Martin Luther 91 - Hamline 46.  I'm starting to understand why the hamline faithful are excited about having 4 MIAC wins over the bottom half of the league.

Why get personal??  I mean really, to be honest BB/WW in my estimation got the most out of his talent, busted his ass every time we we played them, and he would always make some play to help them, so he had a bad shooting night.  I think this type of personal attack should result in a banning by the supreme lord of the boards, Pat C.

Everyone on this board has some bias to a school in the MIAC however slight or strong it might be, but all of us despite our bias have to take our medicine once in awhile. This is one of those times you might need to take yours. As both WW and VOJ have pointed out, let's wait and see how things start to shake out a little bit before you immediately crown your Pipers. I'm not saying that can't finish their, but it is clear that your bias is clouding your judgement in how far you have GAC and CON dropping in the standings. With games for your team still against UST, GAC, SJU that could be a potential 3 losses in a row for your team, which would drop you to 4-6. If this is the case, you would have to basically run the table during the next round to finish second, so let's just wait and see.

If we're not crowning HU (which I am totally in line with) then let's not jump the gun on GAC either. They have yet to play the top other 3 teams in the conference right now (SJU, UST, HU) and needed a miracle to beat the 5th best (CON). They have played 2 worthy non-conference Division 3 opponents--going 1-1 with a loss at home to UW-La Crosse (69-76) and won a 2 point squeeker to Buena Vista (who HU beat by 23 and scored 107 against). They have played 3 different Division 2 opponents and have not impressed (averaging a 14.67 point loss to the three of them). They had to come back from down 16 to STO and gave up a 23 point half time lead to SMU, only to get bailed out by an open missed three by Holland at the buzzer. So, that leaves them with one strong win which came against AUG in overtime on Dec. 9, in Minneapolis.

**I didn't see the HU/Wheaton game, but I am going to make a bold assumption and say that Wheaton would be a bigger challenge for HU or GAC than AUG would be/is. The recent Wheaton win for HU (arguably HU's only "really good win") is more prominent IMO than GAC's only "really good win" against AUG **

- The BV game could be noted as a good win for GAC as well (especially since they were in Storm Lake), but I left it out because the BV win for GAC is really comparable to the Cal Lutheran win for HU (away game, no fans, etc.)

**Hard to call the GAC/UST game a clash of the titans when 2 games ago, GAC was down 29 points to Hawaii-Hilo (NCAA D2), before they took the dogs off and UST just beat Concordia St. Paul (Also NCAA D2).**

I want to restate that I do not think HU deserves more credit than 4th or 5th best in the MIAC (right now) but if we are being critical...well, let's be critical.

You are correct, we shouldn't crown GAC at the 2 yet, which I never did. I actually never mentioned anything on where they would finish except that it wouldn't be 6th, but they have beaten two teams that Hamline has already lost to in AUG and CON. Also, pointing out how GAC barely won a few games doesn't take away from the fact that a win is a win and GAC has don't it better than HAM so far this year in conference play. With that said, I think it will be a really good game on saturday. One I'm definitely excited for.

I think its safe to say that the next 10 to 14 days will tell much about who will be crowned at the end of the year and who will be hitting the recruiting trail a little earlier than the others...Hamline has scary good talent, IF they have come together they will be tough for anyone to handle...GAC is steady, they won't beat themselves and make you work hard for a win...the Tommies are the Kings until someone knocks them off and the Auggies are a little inconsistent which you can also say about Concordia, Bethel and SMU...

I thought we addressed those GAC losses in Hawaii were due to the opponent, jet legs, playing at sea level...the beach, lack of snow...well pick a reason I am sure I missed one somewhere.

The great thing about this year on the board is that most schools are represented and the banter has been good, keep it up fellas.

[Gregory Sager]

Oh, and feel free to check this out if you aren't convinced of Hamline's proper place in this fight. I know PI still has nightmares of this one.

And please ignore the chump who almost ruined the game by shooting 1-6  

http://gustavus.edu/athletics/mbb/archives/2001-02/mbbstats/HAM2.HTM

3 steals, 2 assists and no turnovers in 11 min- Hanson ought to let you go 1-11 from the field.
That Hamline team has to rank up there with the recent MAC teams as the worst in conference history.  I looked up the schedule from that year and Gustavus wasn't the only one who came into Hutton and ran it up: Martin Luther 91 - Hamline 46.  I'm starting to understand why the hamline faithful are excited about having 4 MIAC wins over the bottom half of the league.

Why get personal??  I mean really, to be honest BB/WW in my estimation got the most out of his talent, busted his ass every time we we played them, and he would always make some play to help them, so he had a bad shooting night.  I think this type of personal attack should result in a banning by the supreme lord of the boards, Pat C.

Perhaps I'm not reading it right, but it looks to me as though AO was paying the MIAC's favorite eccentric chocolatier a compliment. He was saying, "Hey, Brett, that's not a bad line that you put up against Hamline that evening, in spite of the fact that you didn't shoot well. If you can pick up three steals and two assists in eleven minutes without turning the ball over even once, you're doing your job no matter how badly you shoot."