MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Willy Wonka]

I'm bored so I'm going to provide a little game for this board ala Nites.

The Game
These are three guys who might be on the all-conference bubble when the year ends. Based on their numbers, please rank them. I'll reveal the names in 24 hours. No cheating!

Team record is obviously a factor in these decisions (hence UST getting two players last year who averaged 7 PPG...), but I'm throwing that out for the purpose of some blind objectivity.

Guard A
11.3 PPG
41% shooter, 31% from deep
2.7 RPG
1.5 APG
16 steals
4 blocks

Guard B
11.5 PPG
39% shooter, 23% from deep
4.6 RPG
1.4 APG
18 steals
2 blocks

Guard C
11.9 PPG
44% shooter, 38% from deep
2.9 RPG
0.9 APG
15 steals
0 blocks

First, I have to say I agree with PI that the stats are close enough that you'd probably look to team success to distinguish the three.    That being said, if I had to rank them, I'd go C-B-A.  My thoughts:

  *If any one of them is a point guard, I'd rank that person 3rd because based upon the assist numbers, he is not distributing the ball the way he should.

  * Assuming then that they are all 2 guards, I'd take C because he has the highest shooting percentages.  The other two have fairly weak shooting percentages so I'd say they actually may be hurting their teams by shooting too much.  In fact, without considering defensive abilities (which you can't necessarily judge by these stats), I'd say only C has a shot at my All-Conference team.

  * B comes in second because he apparently helps out on the boards quite a bit.  That might mean he has some size, which actually might help him out defensively, but that's just speculation.

Slow board today and I have to work tonight...so here's my grand unveiling a few hours early:

Guard A = UST's Joe Scott

Guard B = St. Olaf's Bobby Fong

Guard C = Bethel's Daniel Baah

*****************************

Outside of attending fun-n-gun Bethel, it's hard to imagine Scott being in a better situation to succeed. Which practically begs the question, are the Tommies winning BECAUSE of Scott...or IN SPITE of him?

I could go box score diving all day for anecdotal evidence, but perhaps Moses or his purple-suited, Tommie-loving crony Drake Palmer can provide some relatively unbiased insight for us. Nagging injuries? Crisis in confidence? Too much hair gel?

Don't get it twisted, ESPN would have run a few "Where's the real Joe Scott?" headlines by now if this were a D1 story. Drake's silence after my last post should be evidence enough of that. Everyone, myself included, expected a big jump in production this year...but the preseason all-american's stock is dropping faster than Tebow's.

And it's no secret that I'd love the karma of an undeserving MVP failing to even make the all-conference squad the following year 

[papahoops]

Yes, papahoops has been recently missing from the board lately, but it has not been from a lack of interest. The opportunity to sit by the pool at a nice resort and drink margaritas in 80 degree temperatures in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico definitely put basketball on the back burner for the past week. I have returned energized to watch some hoops. Looks like the Piper/Gustie contest has top billing for me this weekend, although the Jonker Kong express coming to visit UST could also be an interesting contest. They won't finish high enough for him to get the honor, but Kalland would probably get my COY vote at this point. I'm disappointed Mose didn't use his influence to get the UST game moved a few hours so we could catch some doubleheader action and see both of the good games in St. Paul this weekend???

Good point made with your statistical comparison of "bubble" all conference players willy. In my view Scott simply has not shot the ball well this year. All other aspects of his game have been fine. Not only has his shooting percentage gone down, but I also think his confidence level has been impacted and he has not taken some of the shots he would have taken last year. The combination of these factors is resulting in lower scoring numbers despite an increase in minutes.

I see the 3 headed monster SMU got waxed again by Carleton while I was gone. A few years back, they had no talent and were at the bottom of the league. Last year they had 2 good players and supposedly needed just a little more talent to get them into the playoff picture. This year they add the consensus all FY player Palmer and now have 3 of the top 9 scoring leaders, yet are not even close to being a playoff team. Very puzzling. You begin to wonder if they ever will be able to climb out of the lower tier in the league.

[AO]

Yes, papahoops has been recently missing from the board lately, but it has not been from a lack of interest. The opportunity to sit by the pool at a nice resort and drink margaritas in 80 degree temperatures in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico definitely put basketball on the back burner for the past week. I have returned energized to watch some hoops. Looks like the Piper/Gustie contest has top billing for me this weekend, although the Jonker Kong express coming to visit UST could also be an interesting contest. They won't finish high enough for him to get the honor, but Kalland would probably get my COY vote at this point. I'm disappointed Mose didn't use his influence to get the UST game moved a few hours so we could catch some doubleheader action and see both of the good games in St. Paul this weekend???

Good point made with your statistical comparison of "bubble" all conference players willy. In my view Scott simply has not shot the ball well this year. All other aspects of his game have been fine. Not only has his shooting percentage gone down, but I also think his confidence level has been impacted and he has not taken some of the shots he would have taken last year. The combination of these factors is resulting in lower scoring numbers despite an increase in minutes.

I see the 3 headed monster SMU got waxed again by Carleton while I was gone. A few years back, they had no talent and were at the bottom of the league. Last year they had 2 good players and supposedly needed just a little more talent to get them into the playoff picture. This year they add the consensus all FY player Palmer and now have 3 of the top 9 scoring leaders, yet are not even close to being a playoff team. Very puzzling. You begin to wonder if they ever will be able to climb out of the lower tier in the league.

After looking at the numbers, I'm convinced the Tommies are winning because they are a great team with excellent coaching, or because their talent level/athletic ability makes up for every thing they do wrong.  as shooter once said, "They got no head-toppers. St. Thomas, a bunch of mites, run ya off the boards. You got to squeeze em back in the paint. Make em chuck it from the cheap seats. Watch that purgatory they call a gym, no drive 12 foot in." 
They've got one guy (nicolai) in the top 15 in scoring, 0 in the top 20 in rebounding, 1 in the top 15 in assists and so on.  Yet they've taken 115 more shots than their opponents and are outscoring them by 12 and a half a game.  The loss to Gustavus might have taken some pressure off the Tommies as they continue to cruise.  Will Wright and Chris Palmer combined for a 9-27 outing against the Tommies.  The best players play on the best team, stats be darned.

[OldUMACFAN]

For discussion sake, if the season ended today with the standings the way they are...who wins MVP or most outstanding player (or whatever the MIAC calls it):

Ray Brown 18.6 ppg (1st) and 8.2 rpg (5th) for a Hamline squad who has drastically improved and sits at 4th.

Aaron Burtzel 14.6 ppg (5th), 10.2 rpg (1st), and 5.13 apg (1st) for a team that is traditionally a powerhouse and sits at 3rd.

Tyler Nicolai 14.2 ppg (9th) and 2.13 spg (1st) for number 1 UST.

Really comes down to these three but I really think it will come down to Brown and Burtzel. 

[Drake Palmer]

Outside of attending fun-n-gun Bethel, it's hard to imagine Scott being in a better situation to succeed. Which practically begs the question, are the Tommies winning BECAUSE of Scott...or IN SPITE of him?

I could go box score diving all day for anecdotal evidence, but perhaps Moses or his purple-suited, Tommie-loving crony Drake Palmer can provide some relatively unbiased insight for us. Nagging injuries? Crisis in confidence? Too much hair gel?

Don't get it twisted, ESPN would have run a few "Where's the real Joe Scott?" headlines by now if this were a D1 story. Drake's silence after my last post should be evidence enough of that. Everyone, myself included, expected a big jump in production this year...but the preseason all-american's stock is dropping faster than Tebow's....

"Purple suited, Tommie loving crony." I know you had to love typing that line.  You & I are closer than you might think.

Some of us do have day jobs that prevent us from offering up more timely responses.  Besides, if I loved the Tommies so much, don't you think I would have attended all of their home games? If you would like, I could cite various instances when I have passed up watching a UST game to take in another MIAC game.  In fact, there's a good possibility I could pass up the Jonker Kong Express & UST matchup to watch the Gustie-Hambone game. However, I would need to receive assurances from the Gustie faithful that their somnolent offense won't put me to sleep Saturday afternoon.  It does get sort of warm at Hutton arena.

You'll have to find a different Joe Scott apologist as I've been wondering what's been going on with his game all season too.  I'm also of the opinion the next two weeks will be critical to his personal post season success and whether or not he makes AC.  If the coaches see it that same way is another story.

I'm not close enough to the Tommie program to tell you whether he's fully recovered, but I know Scott has been slowed by an ankle injury which he injured the week before the first SJU game 3 weeks ago.  It's my understanding he's fairly close to 100% which still doesn't account for the inexplicable drop in season long production. I will say I feel bad for the kid, he seems like a pretty levelheaded & talented guy.
***
On another note, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Hamline lose to Gustavus on Saturday.  Now I'm not saying that it will happen, but it wouldn't come as a shock to see the young Pipers falter under the relentless pressure of winning another "must win" game.  I wasn't at the Augsburg -Cord game last night but I think the playoff pressure might have come into play for Augsburg, & the fact that the Cobbers seem be mounting a late season revival.  A lot of these teams are fighting for their playoff lives with relatively young, inexperienced squads.  Seasoned teams, senior dominated teams like Gustavus should win these tight, close games.  (Alright Willy, the onus is back on your squad – let's see what they got.  )

[ChairmanYao]

Does anyone else actually laugh every time Jonker Kong gets thrown out? I'm actually depressed I don't live in Northfield and am not a Carleton fan to take advantage of perhaps the greatest nickname ever. I guess I have to stick with Downtown Ray Brown and The Nasty One Carl Hipp

[Drake Palmer]

Does anyone else actually laugh every time Jonker Kong gets thrown out? I'm actually depressed I don't live in Northfield and am not a Carleton fan to take advantage of perhaps the greatest nickname ever. I guess I have to stick with Downtown Ray Brown and The Nasty One Carl Hipp

Yao - You got nuthin to be ashamed of with the assortment of sweet nicknames the student game announcers come up with at Hamline home games.  In fact, several years ago I had to compliment former Piper Jesse Hendricks when he was manning the mic for the Hamline HS Holiday tourney and he was riffing.
 
One of my other current favorite Hamline nicknames - Levi "West Coast" Wenrich – cracks me up.  Levi looks so gangsta.  

[Drake Palmer]

Speaking of games, I went back & copied everyone's picks who entered the Pickem Roundup, & rules so you can have your own electronic copy:

Pickem Roundup
Originally posted on Friday 1-29-10

Here's a little game I'll call Pickem Roundup.  If you want to play, post your selections by the end of day Monday, February 1, 2010. (Before tipoff Monday night)

Here's the game:

List in rank order, 1-11, what you believe will be the final MIAC league standings.  To the right of each team list in parentheses what you anticipate will be their final league record.

There will be two ways to win:

1) Correctly pick final league standings
2) Correctly pick the final W-L record for each team.

Contest scoring:

1)  Participants will receive 11 pts for correctly picking the first place team, 10 pts for 2nd place, 9 pts for 3rd place, so on & so forth until we reach the bottom & everyone will receive 1 point for accurately picking Macalester to finish last.    
Maximum points = 66 pts.

2)  Participants will win 10 points for accurately predicting each team's final conference record. For example, if I pick St. Olaf to finish 8-12 in conference play, & they finish 8-12, I'll earn 10 points. If they finish 10-10 I'll get 0 points.
Maximum pts = 110pts

Piperinsider 1-29-10
St. Thomas 17-3
Gustavus 15-5  
Hamline 13-7
Augsburg 12-8
Saint John's 12-8
Carleton 10-10
St. Olaf 9-11
Bethel 8-12
Saint Mary's 7-13
Concordia    7-13
Macalester 0-20

Drake Palmer 1-31-10
Pickem Roundup

1.  UST   18-2
2.  GAC   14-6
3.  AUGS  13-7
4.  HAM   13-7
5.  SJU   12-8
6.  CARL  11-9

7.  STO  9-11
8.  BET  8-12
9.  SMU  7-13
10.  CORD  5-15
11.  MAC   0-20

Sumander 1-31-10
UST 17-3
GAC 15-5
AUG 12-8
SJU 12-8
HAM 11-9
CAR 10-10
STOLAF 9-11
BET 9-11
SMU 8-12
CORD 6-14
MAC 0-20

MIACMadness 1-31-10
St thomas    18-2
Gustavus      15-5
St.  John's     13-7
Hamline        12-8
Augsburg      12-8
Carleton        11-9
St. Olaf           10-10
Bethel            7-13
St. Marys       6-14
Concordia     6-14
Macalester    0-20

Nites 2-1-10
Pickem Roundup

1.  UST   17-3
2.  GAC   14-6
3.  SJU   14-6
4.  HAM   13-7
5.  AUG  13-7
6.  CARL  12-8
7.  SMU  7-13
8.  BET  7-13
9.  STO  7-13
10. CORD  6-14
11. MAC   0-20

AO 2-1-10
AO's Pick'em Roundup
St. Thomas 19-1
Gustavus   15-5
St. John's   13-7
Augsburg   13-7
Bethel   10-10
Carleton   10-10
Hamline   10-10
St. Olaf   9-11
St. Mary's    6-14
Concordia    5-15
Macalester 0-20

Gacman 2-1-10
GMAN'S Pick'em Roundup

St. Thomas  18-2
Gustavs       16-4
St. John'       13-7    
Carleton      12-8
Augsburg     12-8
Hamline       11-9
St. Olaf        9-11
Bethel          7-13
Concordia    7-13
St. Mary's    5-20
Macalester  0-20

Jquentint 2-1-10
Jquentint's picks
St. Thomas     18-2
Gustavus       15-5
Saint John's   13-7
Augsburg       12-8
Carleton         11-9
Bethel            10-10
Hamline          10-10
St. Olaf           8-12
Saint Mary's   7-13
Concordia       6-14
Macalester     0-20

Hoopmaster 2-1-10
Pick'em Roundup
1. UST  19-1
2.  GAC 15-5
3.  Augsburg 13-7
4.  SJU 12-8
5.  Hamline 11-9
6.  Carleton 11-9
7.  STO 10-10
8.  8-12
9.  St.Mary's 6-14
10.  Concordia 5-15
11.  Mac 0-20

HuHoops 2-1-10
UST 18-2
GAC 15-5
HU 14-6
AUG 14-6
SJU 12-8
CAR 11-9
STO 8-12
SMU 8-12
BET 7-13
CON 5-15
MAC 0-20

[columbianmaffia]

i heard someone say goose!

better break out my goose call...

**HONK HONK HONK**  **HONK HONK HONK**  **HONK HONK HONK**
here geeses here geesie geesie geesie

the Goose got robbed of the MVP last year

any suggestions on a game i should try to watch on saturday?

[scooterman]

I can't believe someone with knowledge of basketball would actually believe that a coach needs to explain to the fans how he uses players in games. He and his staff are at practices at least 2-3 hours a night and evaluate the players body of work. To say that a player gets 20 minutes one night and 2-5 the next could be determined by alot of factors. That is between player and coach. I know coaches explain that to players in their talks at practices and in their office. If it hurts a player's confidence level than he isn't that dedicated a player. Sorry to disagree with you.

[miacsuperfan]

it has been pretty quiet on the rack regarding dawgs at cobs.  anybody see/hear/know what happened?  boxscore study on this one leaves a bit to be desired.  it appeared they were ready to roll, but had a little setback.  a measured dose of saturday macalaster should get them feeling better, however.

also, there has been not much noted today about the fact the jeremy sutherland (already known as a fine defender) is continuing to assert himself offensively as never before.  his 30 pt (11-15 fg), 3 steal, 3 rebound night on the road in winona is certainly noteworthy.   we are finally seeing what a healthy sutherland is capable of doing, and he probably belongs in mvp discussions at least as much as some of those previously mentioned.   

[piperinsider]

it has been pretty quiet on the rack regarding dawgs at cobs.  anybody see/hear/know what happened?  boxscore study on this one leaves a bit to be desired.  it appeared they were ready to roll, but had a little setback.  a measured dose of saturday macalaster should get them feeling better, however.

also, there has been not much noted today about the fact the jeremy sutherland (already known as a fine defender) is continuing to assert himself offensively as never before.  his 30 pt (11-15 fg), 3 steal, 3 rebound night on the road in winona is certainly noteworthy.   we are finally seeing what a healthy sutherland is capable of doing, and he probably belongs in mvp discussions at least as much as some of those previously mentioned.   

Saw Sutherland right after the break and he still didn't look comfortable at that time. He just took up space really in that game. But clearly he is stepping up for the Knights, who go as their guards go.

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

as the resident UST apologist, I will attempt to respond to you, Willy

I am as baffled as anyone about Scott's scoring decline. The ankle injury could be part of it, but I dont think it covers things. His shot is, to my eyes, no different than in the past, but shots that used to swish thru are now catching the edge of the rim and bouncing out. Its like his aim if off 1/16" or something. A "why" for this escapes me. Shootersarus slumpsimonius is the medical term for it, I believe. Kinda like what USJ guards (particularly R Leisure & T Westmon) would suffer everytime they tried to shoot in Schoenecker.

However, I dont feel this means UST is winning "in spite" of Scott. His defense and passing games have improved appreciably, which offsets to a substantial degree the scoring decline.

He remains a huge scoring potential/threat. I defy any team to go slack defending him. To do so would be foolish, IMO.

The key to UST's success this year, much like the past 2 seasons, isnt a matter of scoring. It is the killer, suffocating defense they play. I'll pull a Willy and be too lazy to look it up, but Im nellry positive UST is among the team leaders in nearly every defensive category (the lone exception is blocked shots)- turnovers forced, opponents shooting % in particular. Teams come into their game vs UST averaging, 11 TOs a game and the defense forces 20+.

[MiacMadness]

Boy I sure wish I could go back and change some of my predictions 

[piperinsider]

Hello, anyone there?

Well, we are on the eve of HAM/GAC so I thought I'd give my thoughts on the Rematch!

Just a few notes about the first game -
GAC: Seth Anderson was 6-for-8 for 15 points; Mychal Crowder played fantastic down the stretch shutting down Ray Ray; Paulsen was ineffective outside of the first couple of minutes.
HAM: Brandon Rieg/Christian Taber played a combined seven minutes for two points; one-on-one basketball led by Ray Ray...assists were 18 to 8 in favor of Gusties; Hipp played his worst game of the year and maybe his three years at Hamline.

This time around
GAC: Anderson has scored 15 points the last four games (that's a less than whopping four PPGs); outside of 14 points in a loss at SMU and 15 in a big win against MAC, Paulsen has had three single-digit performances the past five games and remains only as a third or fourth option for GAC.
HAM: Rieg and Taber have combined for 36 points the past two games since seeing more court time; Hipp is coming off his best offensive game of the season; and Ray Ray has cut down on his poor shots, playing a smarter game, but still contributing 15-20 PPG.

HAM is 5-1 during the second loop thus far (@ SMU, @ SJU, UST remain)
GAC is 2-3 during the same stretch (@ STO, BET, @ UST SJU)

I just think the Vipers are a much better TEAM right now than they were the first meeting and they had all the chances in the game to win that one. On their home court, I expect a W from Hamline.

Things to watch: Will Crowder start and guard Brown or will Paulsen guard him again to start? Paulsen could not handle the speed of Brown in the first meeting. McPartland vs Hipp and Carroll vs Wirtjes. How many times will Schmidtknecht head fake on a three-pointer?

And my favorite: The Posse vs GAC supporters