MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[piperinsider]

Folks calm down. Ray isn't the first person to smoke. Ray isn't the first MIAC player with kids. Ray isn't the only person to make mistakes. I mean, he's still a kid. Kids make mistakes. It's what Ray does with this opportunity that can be judged. I hope he succeeds. He sounds like a bright guy that understands his mistakes and is doing his best to remedy them.

For the Prophet -
At St. Mary's
2005 - W 79-61
2006 - L 85-77
2007 - L 84-70
2008 - W 93-83
2009 - L 80-72
2010 - L 98-77

Yeessh. The first two losses can be attributed to a number change. Hamline was 1-0 with a certain someone wearing No. 15, but 0-2 wearing No. 45.

If that logic doesn't catch ya, how about the fact that SMU has averaged 86 points per game the past five seasons? As Golden Eye would say, "Where's the Defense?"

BTW, congrats to TH4L on his wedding tonight.

[Buddo]

This is a success story isn't it? Ray Brown get's his college education, becomes a productive addition to society, provides for his family, possibly gives back to other young men that are in his situation....AND it's good for the MIAC.

^ This.

[Willy Wonka]

Folks calm down. Ray isn't the first person to smoke. Ray isn't the first MIAC player with kids. Ray isn't the only person to make mistakes. I mean, he's still a kid. Kids make mistakes. It's what Ray does with this opportunity that can be judged. I hope he succeeds. He sounds like a bright guy that understands his mistakes and is doing his best to remedy them.

Good points...but that's not really the issue at hand. Ray the person may have turned the corner, but that doesn't mean Ray the basketball player should get a free pass for what happened in his past. I'm all for giving kids second/third/fourth chances at life, but I can't support someone seeking a free pass after breaking a clearly defined NCAA rule — a rule D3 also follows, incidentally.

If he's actually seeking the suspended year back as PI says, and what Reusse wrote is true about the appeal being denied in 2007, I'm really not sure how his new paperwork has any chance at going through. Maybe it's just me, but I'd also be surprised if the NCAA allowed multiple appeals on the same issue/incident...especially three years later.

[Drake Palmer]

PI,  a man after my own heart. The voice of reason.

Looks like we could use a little levity around here. I see Willy was trotting out the old nickname I coined for Coach Whitmore.

[sumander]

REG   #   WP      OWP     OOWP    SOS     RPI50   RPI     NAT   Pool        REG     OVR   CONF     Team
W   001   0.857   0.603   0.550   0.585   0.721   0.653   005   A   C      18-3    19-3   WIAC     UW-SP
W   002   0.895   0.533   0.538   0.535   0.715   0.625   007   A   C      17-2    20-2   MIAC     St. Thomas
W   003   0.818   0.621   0.549   0.597   0.708   0.652   010   C   003    18-4    18-4   WIAC     UW-WW
W   004   0.895   0.510   0.534   0.518   0.706   0.612   011   A   C      17-2    19-2   NWC      Whitworth
W   005   0.941   0.420   0.516   0.452   0.697   0.574   013   B   001    16-1    20-2   IND      Chapman
W   006   0.895   0.475   0.515   0.489   0.692   0.590   015   A   C      17-2    19-4   IIAC     Central
W   007   0.813   0.483   0.498   0.488   0.650   0.569   042   A   C      13-3    17-4   SCIAC    Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
W   008   0.714   0.546   0.526   0.539   0.627   0.583   061   C   025    15-6    15-6   MIAC     Augsburg
W   009   0.667   0.572   0.560   0.568   0.617   0.593   069   C   031    14-7    15-8   WIAC     UW-La Crosse
W   010   0.684   0.489   0.511   0.497   0.590   0.544   092   C   051    13-6    14-8   IIAC     Cornell
W   011   0.588   0.613   0.551   0.592   0.590   0.591   094   C   053    10-7    13-9   WIAC     UW-Stout
W   012   0.652   0.524   0.528   0.525   0.589   0.557   095   C   054    15-8    15-8   MIAC     Hamline
                                         

Calculations from Knightslappy through last night.  

Augsburg is the only non-Tommies MIAC team that appears to have any kind of a decent shot at a Pool C bid. If the Auggies win out in the regular season, win a MIAC tourney semifinal game, and then lose in the MIAC finals, they'd end up with a 20-7 in-region record, good for a .741 in-region winning percentage. Anything less than a stretch run that good, and they draw closer and closer to bubble territory; that seven in-region losses figure seems to be the big mathematical tipping point.

Auggie Tech still has a shot at a Pool C bid.

[huhoops]

WOW--Why all the Hate regarding Ray Brown? Here is a young man who made a mistake. Who hasn't ? He realizes his life is going in the wrong direction, he's out of college, out of work, a father of 2, his father is ill--- and HE makes a decision to turn his life around before things get worse. (Credit Whitmore's staff for recognizing the talent and offering a mentor's hand up). This is a success story isn't it? Ray Brown get's his college education, becomes a productive addition to society, provides for his family, possibly gives back to other young men that are in his situation....AND it's good for the MIAC.

Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves---you know who you are....   

Luke 6:37 ESV
"Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

I like your thoughts on Ray, but come on, "a mentor's hand up"? I don't mind the philosophies that Whitmore uses on the court, but he has shown that he is far from a mentor/role model to these kids. In the last 2 years under Whitmore, it looks like 16 underclassmen have quit/left the program at HU (many of whom played significant minutes the season before they left). That doesn't indicate to me that he has the trust or allegiance of the players (and visa-versa). The retention rate of the freshman at HU over the last two years has been 27% (3/11)--hopefully this years group will boost that significantly as they are by far the most promising class they have had in a while.

Whether or not Whitmore and his staff are "mentoring" Brown is yet to be determined. Let's see how much they are involved in his progress if he doesn't get this pending year of eligibility back.

As for Brown, all signs indicate that he is moving in the right direction. In respect to basketball, I tend to agree that rules are rules. He sounds adamant about finishing his education which is a smart move on his part as long as he follows through on it. If he isn't eligible next year, he should just keep working on his game, finish his schooling, and work on getting set up to play in Europe in the process.

[Gacman]

WOW--Why all the Hate regarding Ray Brown? Here is a young man who made a mistake. Who hasn't ? He realizes his life is going in the wrong direction, he's out of college, out of work, a father of 2, his father is ill--- and HE makes a decision to turn his life around before things get worse. (Credit Whitmore's staff for recognizing the talent and offering a mentor's hand up). This is a success story isn't it? Ray Brown get's his college education, becomes a productive addition to society, provides for his family, possibly gives back to other young men that are in his situation....AND it's good for the MIAC.

Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves---you know who you are....   

Luke 6:37 ESV
"Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

I like your thoughts on Ray, but come on, "a mentor's hand up"? I don't mind the philosophies that Whitmore uses on the court, but he has shown that he is far from a mentor/role model to these kids. In the last 2 years under Whitmore, it looks like 16 underclassmen have quit/left the program at HU (many of whom played significant minutes the season before they left). That doesn't indicate to me that he has the trust or allegiance of the players (and visa-versa). The retention rate of the freshman at HU over the last two years has been 27% (3/11)--hopefully this years group will boost that significantly as they are by far the most promising class they have had in a while.

Whether or not Whitmore and his staff are "mentoring" Brown is yet to be determined. Let's see how much they are involved in his progress if he doesn't get this pending year of eligibility back.

As for Brown, all signs indicate that he is moving in the right direction. In respect to basketball, I tend to agree that rules are rules. He sounds adamant about finishing his education which is a smart move on his part as long as he follows through on it. If he isn't eligible next year, he should just keep working on his game, finish his schooling, and work on getting set up to play in Europe in the process.

HH, great take and +k.

We have heard both spectrums of this topic on this board, and I think your view was in the middle where it probably should be. I don't think anybody is going to look at Ray's personal life and hope it doesn't work out, especially since it seems he is stepping up by maturing and taking responsibility for his past actions. But we are talking about two separate issues, his off the court issues which everyone hopes works out because when it comes down to it that's all that matters anyway and on the court issues. "Eligibility"

He obviously is a great player, but no matter how great you are rules are rules like others have said. That isn't a cold-hearted stance by anyone who has taken it. Rules are in place to protect the players, the universities, the teams, and maybe most importantly the integrity of the game. When these rules are broken, you suffer the consequences. His consequence was losing a year of eligibility. The great thing about these rules is that they still give students and kids a second chance. The punishments send a message but not too tough that they are banned forever. He was able to come back and play two more seasons with this one maybe being his most rewarding since High School.

He might not get another year of eligibility and from what people are saying it doesn't look like he probably should. What matters though is that he is changing his life around, taking advantage of his possible last year of eligibility, and returning Hamline to respectability and relevance.

As far as your comments on Whitmore being a mentor or coach that cares about his players, I would tend to agree with your take on the situation. I obviously didn't play for him so I can't speak from experience, but I did have a cousin on the team that felt probably more like the 16 underclassmen that left the program because of how Whitmore coached and treated his players.

[Drake Palmer]

...I like your thoughts on Ray, but come on, "a mentor's hand up"? I don't mind the philosophies that Whitmore uses on the court, but he has shown that he is far from a mentor/role model to these kids. In the last 2 years under Whitmore, it looks like 16 underclassmen have quit/left the program at HU (many of whom played significant minutes the season before they left). That doesn't indicate to me that he has the trust or allegiance of the players (and visa-versa). The retention rate of the freshman at HU over the last two years has been 27% (3/11)--hopefully this years group will boost that significantly as they are by far the most promising class they have had in a while.

Whether or not Whitmore and his staff are "mentoring" Brown is yet to be determined. Let's see how much they are involved in his progress if he doesn't get this pending year of eligibility back.

As for Brown, all signs indicate that he is moving in the right direction. In respect to basketball, I tend to agree that rules are rules. He sounds adamant about finishing his education which is a smart move on his part as long as he follows through on it. If he isn't eligible next year, he should just keep working on his game, finish his schooling, and work on getting set up to play in Europe in the process.

To echo what G-man said...

HU - preach on brotha! I've also heard from a trusted source that this retention challenge will continue to be a problem next year.  Although in fairness to the Admiral, not all of the retention problems can be laid at his feet.  Some of the kids couldn't cut it at this level & or they had a problem adjusting to his coaching style & system.  Also, some players seemed to have misguided notions about their ability, while for others, college life is not the answer, or the desire to be closer to family & loved ones is stronger than the desire to be All-MIAC.

When I read the Reusse or Oracle article I chuckled (more like spat coffee on my newspaper) at the part where Ray Brown said that Coach Whitmore didn't get in his face as other coaches of his had done in the past. That's not exactly what I've heard about the Admiral's coaching style. 

[Buddo]

A quick update to my first-team picks...

G Tyler Nicolai
G Will Wright
G Jon Cassens
F Ray Brown
F Aaron Burtzel

MVP Burtzel
Freshie of the year Chris Palmer

[Willy Wonka]

A quick update to my first-team picks...

G Tyler Nicolai
G Will Wright
G Jon Cassens
F Ray Brown
F Aaron Burtzel

MVP Burtzel
Freshie of the year Chris Palmer

I think four of those five should probably be near-unanimous selections, with Willy W as the wild card. You could make quality cases for a number of people at that spot — Hipp, Palmer, Robertson, Olson and Jonker would be the most obvious options.

And I'll echo the previous two in saying nice post, HH.

[Chocolate Factory]

Maniac, I hope Scott is back. I am not sure he is. All thru his slump it seemed he was just missing. His shots seemed to be just a bit short, right on target. Against Bethel, although he hit a couple he still didn't look real comfortable. His misses were real bad. Not even close. It looks like he is trying to get it and just shoot it. Doesn't want to think about it too much. I feel kind of bad for him. He turns down a lot of shots he usually wouldn't.

It looks like Fritz has gotten into Halverson's head big time. Usually it is a senior that he screws with, but this time it appears it is Anders. I don't know what goes on in practice but it just seems he could be a big help down the stretch.

No team in the MIAC is going to make a run in the tournament this year.

Brady Ervin is the best 2 sport star in the MIAC.

Out.

[Chocolate Factory]

Better make a quick verification before I get lambasted. Brady Ervin is the best 2 sport star that plays basketball. Way more valuable than Brumm.

There are others that play baseball and football that are more valuable. (See Ben Wartman)

[Drake Palmer]

Monster 3 OT game in the Big East tonight.  Pitt defeats West Virginia 98-95!

So much for staying home tonight & making some headway pulling my tax information together.  

...It looks like Fritz has gotten into Halverson's head big time. Usually it is a senior that he screws with, but this time it appears it is Anders. I don't know what goes on in practice but it just seems he could be a big help down the stretch.

No team in the MIAC is going to make a run in the tournament this year.

Brady Ervin is the best 2 sport star in the MIAC.

Out.

CF- I'm curious which UST senior do you think Fritz messed with last year? As an outsider, it seemed to me that all of the seniors were invaluable contributors: Al McCoy, Lonnie Robinson, Brett Tuma & BJ Viau.

Several of us have commented on the Halvorsen situation before, but it has been puzzling how the UST coaches have used Halvorsen this year. 

[Willy Wonka]

Maniac, I hope Scott is back. I am not sure he is. All thru his slump it seemed he was just missing. His shots seemed to be just a bit short, right on target. Against Bethel, although he hit a couple he still didn't look real comfortable. His misses were real bad. Not even close. It looks like he is trying to get it and just shoot it. Doesn't want to think about it too much. I feel kind of bad for him. He turns down a lot of shots he usually wouldn't.

It looks like Fritz has gotten into Halverson's head big time. Usually it is a senior that he screws with, but this time it appears it is Anders. I don't know what goes on in practice but it just seems he could be a big help down the stretch.

No team in the MIAC is going to make a run in the tournament this year.

Brady Ervin is the best 2 sport star in the MIAC.

Out.

Funny that you'd mention this now. I actually heard this same complaint about Fritz for the first time last week from a former league MVP who played for the Tommies years ago. I was more than a little surprised.

I'm not sure how much merit I'd give these claims right now, but it will be interesting to see if Nicolai goes through something similar next year...especially if he happens to win the MVP this year.

[Drake Palmer]

Maniac, I hope Scott is back. I am not sure he is. All thru his slump it seemed he was just missing. His shots seemed to be just a bit short, right on target. Against Bethel, although he hit a couple he still didn't look real comfortable. His misses were real bad. Not even close. It looks like he is trying to get it and just shoot it. Doesn't want to think about it too much. I feel kind of bad for him. He turns down a lot of shots he usually wouldn't.

It looks like Fritz has gotten into Halverson's head big time. Usually it is a senior that he screws with, but this time it appears it is Anders. I don't know what goes on in practice but it just seems he could be a big help down the stretch.

No team in the MIAC is going to make a run in the tournament this year.

Brady Ervin is the best 2 sport star in the MIAC.

Out.

Funny that you'd mention this now. I actually heard this same complaint about Fritz for the first time last week from a former league MVP who played for the Tommies years ago. I was more than a little surprised.

I'm not sure how much merit I'd give these claims right now, but it will be interesting to see if Nicolai goes through something similar next year...especially if he happens to win the MVP this year.

Until you mentioned it, I hadn't even considered Nicolai for MVP.  They wouldn't, would they? Lets hope not. Good player, but not MVP caliber.